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AA77 FDR Data, Explained

Really? In which post does someone claim the engines vaporized? Or burned away to nothing? If you can't produce the quote you are a liar. Ironic, isn't it, that the "truth" movement is so full of liars?

I am waiting for Turboprop to answer that one. But I am not holding my breath.
ETA: also waiting to find out what qualifications the experts at PF "truth" have in examing the data from Flight Data recorders.
 
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I am waiting for Turboprop to answer that one. But I am not holding my breath.
ETA: also waiting to find out what qualifications the experts at PF "truth" have in examing the data from Flight Data recorders.


You can breathe again. He's a quote from OldTigerCub:

13th July 2008, 08:45 PM. Post #739

The engines and the wheel hubs were not vaporized. Shattered, mangled and incinerated, yes, but not vaporized

Shattered and incinerated.

I said vapourized...hmmm...I bet if I read through more of this thread I could
find an instance.

But nonetheless, how do you account for all of the column damage when
the plane shatters on impact?

How do you incinerate titanium parts in an engine. Where is the other
engine? Where are the other wheel hubs?
 
You've again shown that you have no concept of what "working copy" means.

Working copy :rolleyes:

What about the FDR file and tab file which support the animation? Are the
acutal FDR files working copies too? LMAO!

Only you and the conspiracy liars require it to be dead-on accurate. It doesn't matter that they may have gotten some parameters, ie air pressure, true vs. magnetic North, start and stop times, etc., wrong.

You obviously don't understand how the animation software works. We're
not even talking about dead on accurate, we're talking about way off sensor
limits!

It matters completely that all of those above parameters are wrong because
they came from the raw data files! Clue in genious!

Your picture shows it quite perfectly. The engine fits right into the huge hole on the first floor. The columns are broken and bent in the correct manner for the angle that the aircraft struck the building. So, what hit the generator?

Is that so? Then how does the wing go through the wall!? Haha.

You can't be serious? The engine gets by the column(s), and the wing
magically passes through a wall?

Oh, you mean this debris:

No, I mean where is the debris on the front of the Pentagon lawn in this
photo taken within minutes of impact?

http://www.waarheid911.nl/precollapse.jpg

Where is the other engine? Where is most of the mass of either engine?
What about all of the wheel hubs? How about the wing sections that didn't
pass through the intact wall sections?

Magical 9/11 planes!
 
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You can breathe again. He's a quote from OldTigerCub:

13th July 2008, 08:45 PM. Post #739



Shattered and incinerated.

I said vapourized...hmmm...I bet if I read through more of this thread I could
find an instance.
And they were shattered and incinerated, not vaporized. You made that up, which is another way of saying you lied. How many lies do you have to tell for 9/11 "truth" Turbofan?

But nonetheless, how do you account for all of the column damage when
the plane shatters on impact?
Why would the plane shattering mean the columns couldn't be damaged? What do you think damaged the columns Turbofan? Of course, you'll run away from that question also.

How do you incinerate titanium parts in an engine. Where is the other
engine? Where are the other wheel hubs?
Is this how it works? Unless we can come up with a picture of every plane part you demand it means that Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon?
 
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You can breathe again. He's a quote from OldTigerCub:

13th July 2008, 08:45 PM. Post #739



Shattered and incinerated.

I said vapourized...hmmm...I bet if I read through more of this thread I could
find an instance.

But nonetheless, how do you account for all of the column damage when
the plane shatters on impact?

How do you incinerate titanium parts in an engine. Where is the other
engine? Where are the other wheel hubs?

thanks my lungs are no longer what they used to be. But you did not find the oft quoted canard from the "truth" movement vaporized. The only one you found was one saying not vaporized
also still waiting to find out what qualifications the experts at PF "truth" have in examing the data from Flight Data recorders.

ETA
Someone did say vaporized
Originally Posted by Turbofan
I'm getting it all...and it's not adding up!

Now paper luggage tags can withstand fire, but 9 ton engines, wheel hubs, etc.
get vapourized.
 
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And they were shattered and incinerated, not vaporized. You made that up, which is another way of saying you lied. How many lies do you have to tell for 9/11 "truth" Turbofan?

I'm sure I read "vapourized" somewhere else, but it's OK because TigerCub
says "Incinerated"

Tell me how you can incinerate titanium engine parts, and wheel hubs?

I'll take the blame for using the word vapourize if you can explain how the
majority of the plane is not seen at the Pentagon, and the lack of engine
parts, fuselage and hubs.

You can also explain how the wing passes through a wall. Thanks.


Why would the plane shattering mean the columns couldn't be damaged? What do you think damaged the columns Turbofan? Of course, you'll run away from that question also.

You need mass to cut through interior support columns. If the plane is
shattering, the force of the pieces cannot cut the steel columns.
See how that works?

I don't know what for sure damaged the columns, but AA77 certainly did not.
We wont know until a proper investigation has been performed, but I will
speculate a missile, or other aircraft entered the Pentagon.

Is this how it works? Unless we can come up with a picture of every plane part you demand it means that Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon?

You bet. That's sort of how proof beyond a reasonable doubt works!
Show me some large tail sections, fuselage sections, engines, etc!

Show me how those wings pass through a wall , but can cut steel columns! :rolleyes:
 
Anybody want to tell me how a "working copy" of an animation can be
so different from FDR files?

Anyone want to explain how a "working copy" of the animation can be so
far off the official flight path, incorrect pressure altitude, and stop short
of the impact?

These are the NTSB experts you are all believing? Nice...
 
You need mass to cut through interior support columns. If the plane is
shattering, the force of the pieces cannot cut the steel columns.
See how that works?

When the plane is shattering into smaller pieces do they all also magically stop. Or do many of the continue through the building shattering more and breaking support columns and other items in the building.

Show me some large tail sections, fuselage sections, engines, etc!
Why would you expect this instead of being broken into many small pieces. The plane did hit at several hundred miles per hour.

I'm sure I read "vapourized" somewhere else,
probably from the folks at PF "Truth"

but it's OK because TigerCub says "Incinerated"
???? are you kidding????


ETA: ETA: also waiting to find out what qualifications the experts at PF "truth" have in examing the data from Flight Data recorders.
 
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Anybody want to tell me how a "working copy" of an animation can be
so different from FDR files?

Anyone want to explain how a "working copy" of the animation can be so
far off the official flight path, incorrect pressure altitude, and stop short
of the impact?

These are the NTSB experts you are all believing? Nice...

Fortunately, we debunkers have a mountain of other evidence to support our contention that AA77 hit the Pentagon. PFT has... what, exactly?

Turbo, would you care to address the statements of the thousand or so people who worked on the recovery operation in the Pentagon? How about that security video in which you can clearly see nothing going over the Pentagon? Or the photo of that piece of debris with an AA logo on it?

You can twist and turn your few shards of "evidence" all you like, but you're wrong. And I believe on some level you know you're wrong, but you either are getting some jollies out of "sticking it to the JREFers" or are too invested in your fantasy to face the real, unspun, unvarnished, small-t truth.

Someone once said "the truth requires no defense". Considering the amount of defending you have to do, maybe you should honestly re-evaluate what you think of as the truth.
 
I'm sure I read "vapourized" somewhere else, but it's OK because TigerCub
says "Incinerated"

Tell me how you can incinerate titanium engine parts, and wheel hubs?
One of the wheel hubs ended up outside the C-ring hole. I'm sure the others were somewhere in the wreckage.

I'll take the blame for using the word vapourize if you can explain how the
majority of the plane is not seen at the Pentagon, and the lack of engine
parts, fuselage and hubs.
You've already been shown pics of the plane pieces. But a dishonest liar such as yourself won't acknowledge that.

You can also explain how the wing passes through a wall. Thanks.
Why would I have to do that? Is someone claiming an intact wing went through the wall?

You need mass to cut through interior support columns. If the plane is
shattering, the force of the pieces cannot cut the steel columns.
See how that works?
I'm having trouble understanding how shattering something reduces its mass. Maybe you'd like to explain?

I don't know what for sure damaged the columns, but AA77 certainly did not.
We wont know until a proper investigation has been performed, but I will
speculate a missile, or other aircraft entered the Pentagon.
So a 757 could not cause that damage, but some other type of airplane could? :jaw-dropp Where are the pieces of an airplane not consistent with Flight 77?

Do you think the damage at the Pentagon is consistent with a missile? Do missiles have the ability to bend all the columns the same direction? Do you have any missile parts to show?



You bet. That's sort of how proof beyond a reasonable doubt works!
Show me some large tail sections, fuselage sections, engines, etc!

Show me how those wings pass through a wall , but can cut steel columns! :rolleyes:
You've already been shown pics of airplane parts, some with the AA logo intact. Why would you think large sections would survive such a high-speed impact intact?

Why does American Airlines think it was their plane that hit the Pentagon? Is American Airlines in on it?
 
When the plane is shattering into smaller pieces do they all also magically stop. Or do many of the continue through the building shattering more and breaking support columns and other items in the building.

You'll never get this. I posted a picture of the Pentagon outer wall which
has a wall intact where the wing and engine should have entered.

If you read the ASCE report of the damage, you would question the impact
damage vs. the column damage according to the photo evidence.



probably from the folks at PF "Truth"

No. Here's one instance of the government loyalists making stuff up and using
the term "VAPORIZED":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x13510

DC Military .com
http://www.newsfollowup.com/data/dcmil_text.doc

You see I don't lie, or make things up. I just repeat what your GL's state.

???? are you kidding????

No. Can you tell me what temperature titanium incinerates?

Here's another photo of the nice clean Pent-a-lawn

http://web.archive.org/web/20040501101629/http://eric-bart.net/iwpb/images/defina-nfpa-Foam%
 
Why would I have to do that? Is someone claiming an intact wing went through the wall?

It's clear you have not read the ASCE report.

How do the columns get cut, if the wing didn't pass through the outer
wall upon impact?

Nobody wants to explain how the "working copy" is completely incorrect,
and how the errors came about? Not surprising.

I'm just lost at the level of stupidity here. Columns beyond the wall are "cut",
but the outer wall is intact.

FDR data shows the plane missed the Pentagon, but the NTSB animation is
a "working copy"? How does a working copy get so messed up?

They can't even show the proper official flight path, or altitude!

Are you guys that dumb to believe the FDR data can produce such a flawed
animation without intentional tampering? :boggled:
 
Working copy :rolleyes:

What about the FDR file and tab file which support the animation? Are the
acutal FDR files working copies too? LMAO!
SO, where did all the buildings and terrain come from? What about their elevations? Or is that part of the FDR data as well?
You obviously don't understand how the animation software works. We're
not even talking about dead on accurate, we're talking about way off sensor
limits!

It matters completely that all of those above parameters are wrong because
they came from the raw data files! Clue in genious!
See above. There is more in that animation than just an airplane flying around.

Is that so? Then how does the wing go through the wall!? Haha.

You can't be serious? The engine gets by the column(s), and the wing
magically passes through a wall?
You are basing your fictional scenario on an overlay that doesn't take into account the angle the aircraft struck building. If the aircraft went straight into the building at a right angle, then you might have something. Remember, there were no high speed cameras there to record the event. So, what happened to the aircraft during those tenths of a second from the time the engine impacted the generator till the tail hit the building is not known. So, there is no way any of the many eyewitnesses that you completely ignore to accurately describe what happened.


No, I mean where is the debris on the front of the Pentagon lawn in this
photo taken within minutes of impact?

http://www.waarheid911.nl/precollapse.jpg
Hmmm, no fire truck, no fire. Not exactly minutes.
Where is the other engine? Where is most of the mass of either engine?
What about all of the wheel hubs? How about the wing sections that didn't
pass through the intact wall sections?

Magical 9/11 planes!
Only magical to the conspiracy liars such as yourself that refuse to accept reality.
 
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I'm only going to answer you to stay on this topic because this is the most
rediculous reply yet.

SO, where did all the buildings and terrain come from? What about their elevations? Or is that part of the FDR data as well?
See above. There is more in that animation than just an airplane flying around.

At the beginning of the NTSB video, you see the plane sitting on the runway.

If the terrain is loaded incorrectly, the runway would be incorrect as well.

Tell me how the animation is showing proper altitude, and heading coming off the
runway, and the suddenly changes terrain, altitude, heading, etc. before
impact?

You are basing your fictional scenario on an overlay that doesn't take into account the angle the aircraft struck building.

Once again, another guy that hasn't read the ASCE report.

How do you account for the light pole damage, the fence damage, and
the interior Pentagon damage if the angle was not taken into account!

The overlay is correctly lined up according to all of the above.

Now please explain how the wing passes through the wall, yet creates
the damage shown in the ASCE report!


Hmmm, no fire truck, no fire. Not exactly minutes.
Only magical to the conspiracy liars such as yourself that refuse to accept reality.

Oh, so they cleaned up all the debris while they were putting out the fire
with foam? Perhaps before while the fire was still roaring? LMFAO! :rolleyes:
 
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Why are you answering my question with another question?

To ascertain what you actually know about the evidence.

Why don't you tell me what my witnesses said because their accounts actually support the FDR data, and the photos I linked.
You haven't presented any statements from any of the witnesses I named. The evidence is not limited; all evidence of what happened at the Pentagon is on the table, and you have yet to present the statements of any of those 1,000+ eyewitnesses. Since the physical evidence of what wreckage was recovered at the Pentagon is critical to understanding the events of 9/11, and you have indicated there are "questions" about the wreckage in this very thread, you must necessarily know what those 1,000+ people saw, or recovered, or sorted openly on the Pentagon lawn.

Please tell us what the statements of those key eyewitnesses are. What wreckage did they recover? Show us where any of them have contradicted that the wreckage was from AA77, a Boeing 757.

You do know what they stated, correct, Turbofan?
 
I'm only going to answer you to stay on this topic because this is the most
rediculous reply yet.



At the beginning of the NTSB video, you see the plane sitting on the runway.

If the terrain is loaded incorrectly, the runway would be incorrect as well.

Tell me how the animation is showing proper altitude, and heading coming off the
runway, and the suddenly changes terrain, altitude, heading, etc. before
impact?
Who says it suddenly changes? Show that everything was accurate throughout the entire animation. Just because the runway was accurate would mean that the entire data set for the terrain would also be accurate.

Once again, another guy that hasn't read the ASCE report.

How do you account for the light pole damage, the fence damage, and
the interior Pentagon damage if the angle was not taken into account!
All that does match the REAL angle that the aircraft struck the building
The overlay is correctly lined up according to all of the above.
Only if the aircraft struck at a right angle. The tip would have hit the building first, and if he was already starting tho roll to the right, then that could have easily been accelerated.
Now please explain how the wing passes through the wall, yet creates
the damage shown in the ASCE report!
Nobody is saying that it did. Please provide proof that the wing has the same mass throughout it's length to cause the entire wing to to through the wall.


Oh, so they cleaned up all the debris while they were putting out the fire
with foam? Perhaps before while the fire was still roaring? LMFAO! :rolleyes:
So you are ignoring the plethora of photos of debris just because you only have one photo that was taken at some point in time after the fire truck was no longer needed and before the collapse.:rolleyes: So you expect them to just leave everything in place for how much time?
 
Sorry Mr. selective detective,

Mineta's timeline contradicts the arrival time of Cheney to the PEOC. Mineta
is on video confirming this; it's not hearsay!

It doesn't surprise me that you are not aware of this.

Still wanting to know why the plane wasn't shot down if the order was given?

Your country was under attack (known since second tower strike),
and nobody could figure out how to hit a commercial airliner circling over
restricted airspace with the world's most sophisticated defence system? :rolleyes:

Have you taken the hook out of your mouth yet?


The hook is firmly planted in your mouth, almost crowding out your foot.
Norman Mineta's erroneous and thoroughly discredited timeline has formed the subject of numerous threads on this forum. Mineta's estimate, off by roughly forty minutes, contradicts everyone else's estimate. The shoot-down order that Cheney was relaying was a bit too late to affect the events of the day. All four planes had already crashed. There was, as has been pointed out a thousand times, no plane fifty miles out, or thirty miles, or ten miles. They were not tracking anything; they were using a projected flight path for Flight 93.

This canard has been buried in the same pit as "pull it."
 
If the walls of the Pentagon had been constructed with the same dense materials that make up some truther's heads...there wouldn't have been a hole in the first place.

Just sayin.
 
Alright guys you can carry on with your circular arguments. Nobody is answering
my questions, or making any sense based on the reports and photo evidence.

By the way, proving that the FDR data is consistent across the terrain plot
is the responsibiliy of the NTSB - not mine!

The NTSB released an erroneous animation and you all buy it based on the
"working copy" theory.

If you only knew how it all worked, you would question it like most people do.

If anyone has the nads, and wants to come out of hiding, join us at PFT for
real facts and proper operation of the FDR system.
 
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