AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[beachnut]

Caution: some math may be needed.
Plane with brick wall. Plane going over 500 mph above!

Car going under 50 mph, with brick wall, impact over 10,000 times less energy.

So take your mind and try to understand PHYSICS! Plane going over 534 mph hits Pentagon, it has OVER 10,352.3 times the energy of some poor guy who falls asleep in the parking lot and impacts a brick wall.

Not think if you could, the energy of 10,352.3 cars hitting something at 50 mph. But we have it in one plane!

Have you ever use a hammer, and noticed if you hit the wall 10,000 times real soft, nothing happens, but you hit the wall with 10,000 times the force the wall is crushed and you are having to repair your house? Karate is a good thing to study in terms of physics.

In the case of 77 vs the Pentagon where a terrorist took a plane and killed people. You lack the knowledge to understand the impact was like a giant hammer hitting the buildings with the FORCE of 1121.434 POUNDS of TNT. Like a thousand pound bomb, but the energy is in the mass of the plane speeding at over 534 mph!

The mass of junk 77 was moving, blasted down the brick wall with the left over energy, looks like it was almost done, and only had the energy of few cars going 50 mph! So sad you lack the basic comprehension of kid in high school physics. You should have taken physics and studied harder. What do you call the people who took physics and higher math? You are so far behind on 9/11 issues, I can put a number on that too. Over 6 years behind, and you seem to be getting worse at logical thinking.

 

[WildCat]

Here, this should shut your hole

The C-ring wall was constructed of steel mesh and rebar reinforced brick, 8 inches (20 cm) thick. Details are shown here.

Holy crap! roundhead, all that does is hold the mesh for the plaster. It is not at all structural!

Really, you should just stop. I think you've been wrong nearly 100% of the time.

 

[WildCat]

An airplane going in one side of a building and debris flying out the other side at high speed. Something roundhead claims cannot happen.

 

[roundhead]

Caution: some math may be needed.
Plane with brick wall. Plane going over 500 mph above!
[qimg]http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/carbrickwall.jpg[/qimg]
Car going under 50 mph, with brick wall, impact over 10,000 times less energy.

So take your mind and try to understand PHYSICS! Plane going over 534 mph hits Pentagon, it has OVER 10,352.3 times the energy of some poor guy who falls asleep in the parking lot and impacts a brick wall.

Not think if you could, the energy of 10,352.3 cars hitting something at 50 mph. But we have it in one plane!

Have you ever use a hammer, and noticed if you hit the wall 10,000 times real soft, nothing happens, but you hit the wall with 10,000 times the force the wall is crushed and you are having to repair your house? Karate is a good thing to study in terms of physics.

In the case of 77 vs the Pentagon where a terrorist took a plane and killed people. You lack the knowledge to understand the impact was like a giant hammer hitting the buildings with the FORCE of 1121.434 POUNDS of TNT. Like a thousand pound bomb, but the energy is in the mass of the plane speeding at over 534 mph!

It blasted down the brick wall with the left over energy, looks like it was almost done, and only had the energy of few cars going 50 mph! So sad you lack the basic comprehension of kid in high school physics. You should have taken physics and studied harder. What do you call the people who took physics and higher math? You are so far behind on 9/11 issues, I can put a number on that too. Over 6 years behind, and you seem to be getting worse at logical thinking.

the exit hole was a football field away from the entrance hole....HELLO

The Pentagon study said the mass of the plane was gone by 100 feet in HELLO

The Pentagon wall was rebar reinforced HELLO

You Lose...and a mighty feeble attempt at that. Is that truly the best you can manage???????????

(Mind you, i didnt expect better)

 

[roundhead]

MITCHELL: "You can see someone from the Montgomery County unit here. This pile here is all Pentagon metal. None of that is aircraft whatsoever. As you can see, they've punched a hole in here. This was punched by the rescue workers to clean it out. You can see this is the -- some of the unrenovated areas where the windows have blown out."

 

[Grizzly Bear]

The Pentagon wall was rebar reinforced HELLO

Anything will sizeable mass and momentum will penetrate masonry, you're quite thick in the noggin... If the reinforcement made any difference in the wall you should start telling this to the columns that were hit:
LINK

You Lose...and a mighty feeble attempt at that. Is that truly the best you can manage???????????

(Mind you, i didnt expect better)

Say that after you've leaned earth-bound physics, your assumptions about the aircraft wings and tail section are horrifically wrong.

 

[Turbofan]

Caution: some math may be needed.
Plane with brick wall. Plane going over 500 mph above!
[qimg]http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/carbrickwall.jpg[/qimg]
Car going under 50 mph, with brick wall, impact over 10,000 times less energy.

So take your mind and try to understand PHYSICS! Plane going over 534 mph hits Pentagon, it has OVER 10,352.3 times the energy of some poor guy who falls asleep in the parking lot and impacts a brick wall.

Not think if you could, the energy of 10,352.3 cars hitting something at 50 mph. But we have it in one plane!

Have you ever use a hammer, and noticed if you hit the wall 10,000 times real soft, nothing happens, but you hit the wall with 10,000 times the force the wall is crushed and you are having to repair your house? Karate is a good thing to study in terms of physics.

In the case of 77 vs the Pentagon where a terrorist took a plane and killed people. You lack the knowledge to understand the impact was like a giant hammer hitting the buildings with the FORCE of 1121.434 POUNDS of TNT. Like a thousand pound bomb, but the energy is in the mass of the plane speeding at over 534 mph!

It blasted down the brick wall with the left over energy, looks like it was almost done, and only had the energy of few cars going 50 mph! So sad you lack the basic comprehension of kid in high school physics. You should have taken physics and studied harder. What do you call the people who took physics and higher math? You are so far behind on 9/11 issues, I can put a number on that too. Over 6 years behind, and you seem to be getting worse at logical thinking.

Roundhead, I feel your pain. YOu have beach nut showing a car crashing
INTO a brick wall which is no where near the thickness of the Pentagon.

Not only that, you are taking abuot an exit hole hundreds of feet away
with columns in between.

It would be nice if Beachnut and the gang compared scenarios with similar
parameters.

YOu have also shown photos and sourced rebar at the exit hole (something
I tried earlier), yet they still spew excuses.

Some of them still can't get the concept of data transfer rates, and L3 Communication's involvement.

They think L3 should be responsible for verifying the flight data path,
as opposed to the specifications of their product.

It's sort of like saying Tide is responsible for the stain on your clothes
as opposed to telling you how much soap you need per load of laundry.

These guys want L3 Communications to back up a flight path, instead of
confirming the absolute maximum time between sensor input to crash
protected memory...which they did via e-mail, and phone.

Roundhead, I think we're dealing with a bunch of kids that just want to
waste our time.

They wont touch post #1104 because they just don't know. Wildcat
already admitted he's not the physics type, yet he would rather believe
Anti-sophist's assumptions than data experts and pilots (Latas, Cimino, Balsamo, Douglas).

Nothing is good enough. How can you debate with these sorts of people
when you are posting links to documention of the very system they are
incorrect about, and they STILL wont clue in?

They are arguing against manufacturer data, without reason/proof? Unreal.

 

[beachnut]

the exit hole was a football field away from the entrance hole....HELLO

The Pentagon study said the mass of the plane was gone by 100 feet in HELLO

The Pentagon wall was rebar reinforced HELLO

You Lose...and a mighty feeble attempt at that. Is that truly the best you can manage???????????

(Mind you, i didnt expect better)

You know parts of people are in that pile, so the mass of the plane did not stop in 100 feet. Why do insist at being bad at research and most things you post?
No, the wall was not reinforced it was just brick with enough mesh, and there is some rebar to support, but not enough to stop hammers and mass driven by kinetic energy, oh no. Just like OKC, you are using made up junk; are you making this up as you go?

How far does it take to stop a plane going 534 mph, traveling over 783 feet per second. Gee, it looks like the plane broke down that wall in less than one second after it hit the Pentagon! Time, is another part of Physics, you flunked or skipped! So sad.




Oh, you missed the Physics. What is your problem, no understandy physics? Next time, or now, get educated and learn how to make rational decisions on real events, stop making up fake ideas based on your limited experience and limited knowledge. Physics, it helps you understand the real world, as in reality.

Over 1000 pounds of TNT is more than enough KE to make the Pentagon look like it did when an aircraft hits it. I am an aircraft accident investigator, and you are what? A person who lacks the ability to calculate energy or understand physics. Next time take physics.

With your limited experience you use a bomb when simple KE (kinetic energy) can do the same thing! Darn, why use a bomb when a car can do the trick. Do you have any idea what energy is? Did you flunk physics or just skip it?

You are so funny, you show bomb knocking down wall, I use a simple car. What, no thinky out of boxy?

I knew not to expect anything rational from your posts after you posted lies about OKC. Now you post lies about the Pentagon. Habits are hard to break.

Kinetic energy does the same as your bomb; it does better, there is not lost energy due to blast effects, the car concentrates all the energy at the pointy end of the "stick". Get use to losing arguments, you are good at it. You are much fun. Keep up the real bad work, 9/11 truth needs more people like you.

You are on your own, p4t and Turbofan are terrible at physics, Balsamo is the best example of zero ability in physics I have seen. Turbofan can't help you, he is unable to correct Balsamo's 11.2 G fiasco bad math/physics error. So roundhead, you are on your own, and when Turbofan comes to save you, you are sinking deeper into ignorance, like an anchor and large chain around your feet in a deep sea of pure junk ideas on 9/11.

Got physics?

Prepare for entertainment as 9/11 truth and p4t present pure fantasy and real dumb ideas. Give us your best shot 9/11 truth people.

 

[Newtons Bit]

I think I can help put this discussion/idiocy to rest.

The gravity framing system seen in the pictures above is commonly referred to as a concrete column and beam with infill clay masonry wall. The beams and columns are clearly visible and the wall is inset from these elements, this is typical construction. The wall is a double wythe (or just two running bonds side by side, I can't completely tell) which is common for architects wanting to use just the masonry to get the level of insulation that they want. The wall is also non-structural and does not carry load except it's own self weight and minor amount of tributary wind.

There is no rebar in clay masonry walls. The hollow cells in the center of this masonry is there to reduce weight, not to provide room for reinforcing. How can I tell that this is clay masonry? Simply: the scale. If we assume that the joint mortar bed is close to standard (3/8" - 5/8") then it's fairly easy to see that the block is not the standard 8"x8"x16" nominal CMU block (which would be a reinforced block).

The steel mesh hanging loose is obviously part of the cladding system. It is common to use a mesh like this on lime/portland cement mixes such as plaster, stucco, EIFS, etc etc.

Furthermore, the failure mode that we see here is a two-way shear failure. Rebar or steel mesh would provide little additional strength than just the masonry itself. For information on the shear strength of masonry, I can recommend ACI530 and for concrete ACI318.

This isn't rocket science folks.

 

[HyJinX]

This isn't rocket science folks.

This is a relative statement Newton. To some fantasists, making Mac N' Cheese is a very complex situation.

 

[pomeroo]

What do Bush, McCain and beachnut have in common?




They were all Pilots!!!

They all have higher IQs than you.

 

[SDC]

According to your claims, the FDR data is not possible. yet you are then using it to assert your claims? Gosh, and you wonder why you aren't taken seriously?

Cut by me to address this one point. Jonnyclueless, I believe that the Truthers, at least those here trying to bait and bully over the Pentagon, are not intelligent enough to catch the irony: they don't understand that they can't reject a source of evidence and then use the same source for evidence in the same breath. By their statements they show themselves to be unintelligent, uneducated, and ill-informed -- a real Trifecta. Not just the two in this thread, but the Bedouin as well.

I won't say it's sad to see such an exhibition. It isn't; it's disgusting and appalling.

 

[roundhead]

Your lame attempts at explaining a 9 foot hole made by a bunch of scrap outside the hole(and remember among the first investigators on the scene stated the junk was from the Pentagon, not a plane)i cited him earlier...he obviously stood right there and didnt see the wheel hub that was mysteriously there later.Along with everything getting moved around and other junk added. Not that the wheel would have punched that huge hole anyhow, far from it.

Face it, nothing explains that big hole through a reinforced wall 310 feet away from impact except what i said caused it.


Moving to the Data Recorder, Turbofan has completely flogged every one of you, its quite funny

You make fun of the data a FOI request provides. He didnt make it up, the Govt CLAIMS its from 77....so he studies it, proves 77 couldnt have hit the Pentagon, then you assail him for using Govt data. He has proved one of two things, clearly...the data recorder was doctored as to make it seem like 77 hit the Pentagon, or the data had zero to do with 77..Either way, a FOI request resulted in a blatant lie being propogated.

Like Iraq, which Bush and his idiotic handler Cheney figured could be quickly trampled over and they're oil resources plundered. Because they were to stupid to figure out Iraq wouldnt roll over and let us have it. I COULD HAVE TOLD EITHER OF THEM THAT 7 YEARS AGO.

They tried pulling the same stupidity even before Iraq to get us in there.(9/11)

Things like the exit hole(something a stupid sheeple could use and say, ah ha, it goes in comes out, has to be a plane, didnt work with the doctored FDR data either. They were to stupid to figure anybody would ever plot it out and find the lie,who was qualified to do so.WRONG.

Other than murder, the most idiotic thing that marks the Bush presidency, is his inability to consider the fact that not all of us are stupid, and dont trust somebody with a track record like he and his hatchman has.


Like Momma told me long ago...son, the only way you have of judging somebody is based on they're past performance and track record......




You trogs can continue to cling to the teet of the official lie all ya want, but here is a news flash, there aint any milk coming out of it.

 

[HyJinX]

Like Momma told me long ago...son, the only way you have of judging somebody is based on they're past performance and track record......

Well, heeding your momma's advise, I judge you to be a pointless, consistanly wrong, intellectual midget. Thanks Momma.

 

[pomeroo]

Staged, or hit by another aircraft/device other than AA77. Not sure. Doesn't
matter right now.

Lapman, my other evidence includes, but is not limited to:

- E4-B CNN Video
- Mineta's testimony
- Original news broadcasts on the morning of the explosion
- Lack of debris shown in photos, or serial # identification
- Entry hole photo damage and plane overlay. Inconsistent with AA77
- FDR data does not coincide with Pentagon release video. Level object to ground.
- ASCE report inconsistency
- Eye witness reports
- FDR data

My questions and reasons for questioning the official story are within post
#1104 and this page primarily.

Lapman, answer my post please. Show me something worth replying to.

You've been caught lying again. Mineta's testimony, as you know, does not support your fantasy. Mineta understood the order communicated by Bush to Cheney to be a shoot-down order and has stated as much. His timeline was off by forty minutes. It was discredited by the phone logs and all of the other people present.

 

[OldTigerCub]

I think that the above is incorrect. That photo appears to be an FBI photo that was taken after the firefighters had extinguished the bulk of the fire in that area.

The version you have posted appears to be a cropped version of a photo which appears in the book, "Firefight: Inside the Battle to Save the Pentagon on 9/11" with accreditation, and the uncropped version shows standing water on the ground from the firefighting.





You should read the book mentioned above if you really want to know what the very first people to see the interior of the Pentagon have to say about it. There are numerous accounts from firefighters and other first responders in the book.

I strongly agree with that suggestion. "Firefight" goes into a great deal of detail. It names a great many of the witnesses, firefighters, pentagon personnel, FBI agents and others that were there, and it ties a great many different accounts into one cohesive picture of what happened at the Pentagon on 9-11.

I have my doubts that any of the desciples of pffft will bother to read it though; too many facts, too many named investigators and witnesses....and it makes sense to rational people.

(bolding mine)

 

[WildCat]

The path:

 

[Myriad]

I also notice "Myriad" has gotten very quiet. He must now realize his mistakes. He is going to realize more. So will R. Mackey.

What I realized is that Turbofan passed along the answers he could from the technical literature he has, made stuff up for some of the other questions, and ignored the questions that were too difficult for either of the other approaches.

Having satisfied myself that he has no expertise, I considered posting follow-up questions concerning whether the phase modulation of the tachyon emitters could heterodyne with the dynamic frequency of the warp field modulators to cause a temporal oscillation in the structural integrity field sending the data four seconds into the future. But why bother, when he was in the process of changing the subject anyhow?

What makes technical experts consequential in a debate over technical issues is their ability to present a technical argument in a technical paper. Their mere opinions are of no consequence.

Forty-eight hours from now the political irrelevance of the truth movement in the U.S. will be confirmed again. But at least the truthers behind that effort were willing to test their voice; now that they know it's a squeak and not a roar, they can adjust their plans and expectations accordingly. They're miles ahead of the truthy technical pretenders, who have yet to make a single move.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[beachnut]

Your lame attempts ...

Face it, nothing explains that big hole through a reinforced wall 310 feet away from impact except what i said caused it.


Moving to the Data Recorder, Turbofan has completely flogged every one of you, its quite funny ...


Things like the exit hole(something a stupid sheeple ....


... Bush .. his hatchman has.


Like Momma told me long ago...son, ... ......


You trogs can continue ...

You present zero evidence, lame is ironic. Momma tell you about irony.

Kinetic energy explains the hole, you would know that with some physics. Why did you not take physics?

Turbofan only flogs his own conclusion by presenting evidence proving himself wrong. If you had experience on the FDR topic you would understand you are supporting the team who lost over 6 years ago.

Why are you hung up on barn animals and calling others names?

Hatchman, is that like a guy who watches chicken eggs, or is the evil hatchman, who hatches evil plots on us? I think you have something now! Good job, did Momma help you with the Hatchan stuff?

Was it Momma who said do not take physics! Bad advice!

Trogs? Good ending, and you avoid using facts and evidence.

 

[A W Smith]

Wow! Paper and office parts! They can cut oval holes in steel re-inforced
concrete too!

Can you believe the theories here today people!?

Excuse me while I throw some toilet paper through my walls. I need a new
door way to the living room.

and the inner wall of a pentagon ring would be reinforced why? check again fool that particular wall had no steel reinforcing whatsoever. There wasn't even Durowall within the limestone brick wythes to reinforce it. it was merely a panel.

As far as the shape and size of the exit hole. It was not just the front landing gear that shaped the hole. The planes cargo, the passengers and interior finish and luggage and other cargo including fuel in the center tank are all contained withing the diameter of the fuselage. As the nose of the aircraft enters the building and is consumed the contents are still traveling 530 mph. You will notice the victim remains at the exit hole were mostly passengers that were herded to the back of the plane. While the remains identified as that of the hijackers were close to the entry hole.