A warning about Pentecostalism

[arthwollipot]

Before replying to this thread I had a look into the church and there also seems to be strand of Calvinism intertwined with this church's teachings. Is that the case?

In terms of the Calvinistic TULIP: Total depravity, yes, only Jesus can save people and those who aren't born again are destined for hell. Unconditional election no - people can come to Jesus and be saved regardless of who they are. Pentecostals are evangelists (there's a bit of a personal story in that, which I will reserve for another time). Limited atonement no - Jesus died for the entirety of the human race, not just for the Elect. Irresistible grace yes - once you feel the call of Christ you are basically powerless to resist it (even though I and many others did so maybe not so much). Perseverance of the saints yes again (though I remain a counterexample to that as well). So the answer to your question may be multifaceted. Note: I do not have direct personal experience of Calvinism as I do Pentecostalism, so don't take this as, um, gospel.

Why are you bringing climate change denial and eugenics into this discussion about religion? Are they associated with Pentecostalism?

I left the church before climate denial really became a thing, but I'd be really surprised if it wasn't pretty strongly associated now. The idea is that everything happens according to God's plan. Humans can't affect God's world. If the globe is warming it's because God is making it that way and all we can do is pray for salvation.

ETA: I mean, why are we being warned about Pentecostalism? And why are we being warned now? We've already been warned about Communism and Catholicism and Mormonism. Is Pentecostalism really that much more insidious?

With Catholicism, the worry is that the person in charge will defer to the Pope. With Mormonism they will defer to the elders of the church. Both of which actually demonstrably exist and are human. A Dominionist will defer to God, and furthermore they only know what God wants them to do because of their direct personal connection to God and the ongoing conversation they have every day with God, who is thereby unaccountable to any other human being.

ETAA: At least with Dominionism, we're getting the elected official's own sense of right and wrong, of what is moral and what isn't.

The problem is that the Dominionist believes that their own sense of right and wrong is actually God's, and is therefore immutable, unshakeable, and unquestionable for any reason. Doubt, as I said, is literally Satan.

 

[psionl0]

I'm asking you because it's your words I'm asking about, not arth's. Which did you mean?

I ask because the post you quoted just seems to be saying that Pentecostalism is a problem, not a worse problem than any other particular religion, and I'm trying to see if what your point is, or whether you have misunderstood or misrepresented what arthwollipot is saying.

I should have let Mojo's post be the only answer to your question. Clearly, there is no way that we will ever understand each other.

 

[zooterkin]

I should have let Mojo's post be the only answer to your question. Clearly, there is no way that we will ever understand each other.

Clearly, if you're going to make unclear statements and then can't be arsed to engage in a discussion.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I'm sorry but what's wrong with personal protective equipment?

Politics, Philosophy & Economics. I don't know if this is even a thing in the US but it's historically a popular course at Oxford for people with designs on political or senior Civil Service careers. 'Boris' Johnson has a Second in it for example.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/course-listing/philosophy-politics-and-economics

Apologies if it was meant as a joke but I figured it's probably obscure enough to be a genuine, and reasonable, question.

 

[Lplus]

Politics, Philosophy & Economics. I don't know if this is even a thing in the US but it's historically a popular course at Oxford for people with designs on political or senior Civil Service careers. 'Boris' Johnson has a Second in it for example.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/course-listing/philosophy-politics-and-economics

Apologies if it was meant as a joke but I figured it's probably obscure enough to be a genuine, and reasonable, question.

Thanks for that, I wasn't sure if it was a joke either, but assumed it was.

 

[ahhell]

Politics, Philosophy & Economics. I don't know if this is even a thing in the US but it's historically a popular course at Oxford for people with designs on political or senior Civil Service careers. 'Boris' Johnson has a Second in it for example.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/course-listing/philosophy-politics-and-economics

Apologies if it was meant as a joke but I figured it's probably obscure enough to be a genuine, and reasonable, question.

It was meant as a joke and I didn't know exactly what you meant by PPE but I figured it was something along the lines of a political science degree.

 

[dudalb]

Dominion theology conflicts directly with Dispensational Theology, which many Pentacoastals beleive.
If you are wondering Dispenastional theology is where the whole "Rapture" bull crap come from.

 

[arthwollipot]

Eh. Dispensationalism kind of makes more sense to me than Prosperity theology. It at least tries to rationalise why the Old and New testaments are so different.

 

[arthwollipot]

In case you were wondering about that "ongoing conversation with God" bit...

How good are memoirs? In his testimony to Christian faith, Scott Morrison talks to God and God talks back

Morrison reveals that when he’s on his own, he likes to have an out-loud conversation with God. “Where are you, God?” he asked, when life as the nation’s leader got tough. “Things got pretty heated between me and God as I poured my heart out,” he writes.

But then he sensed God’s response, brought to him via Jesus. “So Scott, your enemies are getting the better of you, are they? You think you have been unfairly treated, have you?” Jesus said.

“You may have heard about some of my experiences … my friends deserted me … my people lied about me … I was betrayed by one of my closest friends.

“Scott, I get it. I’ve been there and worse, and you know what? I did it all for you, because I really love you … just follow me. Just believe in me and trust me.”

Morrison is quite impressed by this divine chitchat. “Now that’s a comeback!” he writes.

Morrison did not hide his religiosity when he was in office – he declared his belief in miracles, invited the media into his pentecostal church, and described practising “laying on of hands” on unsuspecting recipients.

But the depth and intimacy of the relationship still comes as a surprise. He talks about his conversations with God, the permeation of God through his life, and the need to obey God.

The man of the ministerial meshuffle, the man with the pandemic plan, the man who signed us up to Aukus, believes in total obedience to God – the God that talks to him.

There's more at the link, but forum rules prevent me from quoting too much of it. It goes into how his decision to become Prime Minister was taken out of "faith through obedience" to God.

So I hope nobody reading this still thinks that I'm pulling anything I'm saying about Pentecostalism and why it is a problematic faith for a national leader out of my butt.

 

[Wildy]

In case you were wondering about that "ongoing conversation with God" bit...

How good are memoirs? In his testimony to Christian faith, Scott Morrison talks to God and God talks back



There's more at the link, but forum rules prevent me from quoting too much of it. It goes into how his decision to become Prime Minister was taken out of "faith through obedience" to God.

So I hope nobody reading this still thinks that I'm pulling anything I'm saying about Pentecostalism and why it is a problematic faith for a national leader out of my butt.

Nope. That's just the actions of a Generic Liberal Party Member.

 

[arthwollipot]

I hope this serves as an adequate example of a political decision he made on the basis of his religious belief.

 

[Mojo]

I should have let Mojo's post be the only answer to your question. Clearly, there is no way that we will ever understand each other.

It wasn't an answer when you originally posted it, and it isn't an answer now. It's just an excuse for evasion.