A Suggestion about "A Unique Person"...

[Tricky]

AUP is obviously anti-america. He seems to think everything wrong in the world is due to some sort of US involvement. He may give some lip service to the US when called out on his attitude, just as many fundies give lip service to Church-state separation when pressed but after reading a few of his posts about "cowardly US soldiers" and such its rather obvious. Maybe it's not due to jealousy as much as ideological commitments but he's still anti-america.

While you could justifiably catagorize most of AUPs positions as against American policy, I don't think you can call him anti-American, as he has shown great restraint in replying to what have been blatent attempts at character assasination by some of the Americans here.

There may be an "us versus them" situation going on here, but I don't think you could call AUP the worst offender in that respect.

 

[Malachi151]

Ditto. Well, there was a joke about Marxists in the law school: " You say hello to a marxist and he must compose a thesis in order to reply "

Well, the fact is that its impossible to understand a sitution when looking at selected facts in isolation. When seen in context they are easier to understand and more useful as well. The worst part about discussions on the internet, or in person for that matter, is the level of ignorance. Its impossible to have a discussion if people are not aware of the facts. The only solution then is to present the facts. If people wish to igrone the facts then that's there problem.

If people don't want to read it and gain understanding thats thier choice. I went back and highlighted the most relevent information to make it easier for people.

It's not easy dispelling the American civil religion afterall

 

[thaiboxerken]

I'm very much aware that the USA had and has shady policies towards other countries. Heck, I have a friend that is a merc and knows much about this stuff.

I guess our government feels it knows best, falsely. Isn't there a law that says all government policies should be public? I guess that doesn't apply to anything labelled military though. Dunno how to really solve that problem. With much power, comes much corruption and the USA is no exception.

Doesn't bother me too much, as long as I can reach my million dollar goal.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Skeptic:

Are you, too, annoyed at the fact that AUP manages to turn EVERYTHING--including a discussion about the increased rainfall in the Mississippi river--into some sort of weird "criticism" of the United States and its alleged behavior?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

The solution is simple: give him a green card!

Why?

Well, it is true that, contrary to popular American belief, many people in the world do not with to become Americans, and are not American patriots, but partriots of their own countries--yes, despite the fact that they are poorer places that lack cable TV.

But such people do not go on the internet to criticize and belittle anything and everything the US does. They might have SPECIFIC criticisms, but that's something else.

When someone rants against the US like AUP does--criticising everything and anything about it with cynical innuendo--it is usually something else: jealousy.

Ahhh. You are once again hampered by your arrogance, your lack of knowledge about the world, and your wish for easy answers. Grow up, get an education, and then we can talk.

AUP is jealous of the fact that the US is powerful and rich, as his posts obviously show--and above all, about the fact that this powerful and rich country DARED not to ask HIM what to do, for some strange reason.

Fascinating. Are you psychic?

As long as AUP is jealous of Americans, he will keep annoying us. If, however, he was to become one (or at least a permanent resident) his jealousy will of course subside, having got what he wanted, and he'll stop annoying us...

Is AUP annoying you? Auhhh, poor baby. Bad, bad AUP.

To my knowledge AUP makes arguments for his position. They may be well founded or not. If they aren't, they can be demolished.

Demolish them, Skeptic, or get out. Whining is for pre-pubescents.

 

[Baker]

Skeptic:Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

In AUP case, it's an agenda he is proven wrong on many arguments and then uses the same deflated arguments in another thread.

Ahhh. You are once again hampered by your arrogance, your lack of knowledge about the world, and your wish for easy answers. Grow up, get an education, and then we can talk.

If you disagree with his comment then provide a logical counter argument.

Is AUP annoying you? Auhhh, poor baby. Bad, bad AUP.

To my knowledge AUP makes arguments for his position. They may be well founded or not. If they aren't, they can be demolished.

They are generally demolished but hearing the same deflated arguments repeatedly can be tiresome.

Demolish them, Skeptic, or get out. Whining is for pre-pubescents.

Its not whining he is just giving his honest opinion.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Baker:

In AUP case, it's an agenda he is proven wrong on many arguments and then uses the same deflated arguments in another thread.

If this is the case, this would be a mark against AUP. Do you have examples handy?

If you disagree with his comment then provide a logical counter argument.

A counter argument to what? Skeptic's determination that AUP must be jealous of the US because he critisizes various US policies? Who cares why AUP makes the arguments he does. I refer you to the "Are you Russian, Victor?" thread.

They are generally demolished but hearing the same deflated arguments repeatedly can be tiresome.

Indeed, hearing the same old arguments from shanek or from the religious right can be tiresome. So what?

Its not whining he is just giving his honest opinion.

His honest opinion, in this case, is indistinguishable from whining.

 

[mgidm86]

Briefly:

I think threads such as this one and many of the "JK" threads are in poor taste and are usually more telling of the person starting the thread than the person in question. This belongs in a different section of the board, if anywhere at all. It is quite simple to use the ignore feature to tune out a poster that one does not like, or Private Message them, rather than to try and convince the rest of us that your views on said person are correct and that we should dislike him/her as well. In fact, in reading stupid threads such as this one I usually find that many people who would normally agree with the views of the poster end up defending the person being criticized instead.

I don't feel it proper to attack someone in a thread like this, but I'll say this much: I disagree with a lot of posters, and quite often with the man in question here. That's one reason I'm here. Whether or not someone is anti-American is irrelevant to me, although I'll admit that sometimes my initial reaction to a post is a roll-of-the-eyes or a "here we go again". But I always have to think carefully when I choose to reply because there is quite often some truth in what is said.

I think AUP is one of the more intelligent and polite posters here, whether or not I agree with him. Why am I talking as if he wasn't in the room? AUP...yer cool and you have a good sense of humor that I think blows right by some people (not that my opinion matters). Maybe one day I'll piss-off someone enough to start a thread about me, I feel so "unknown"

So what exactly is the point of this thread, if not to flame? I think it should be moved.

 

[davefoc]

schplurg,
I think there is something to what you say, but in some sense by not putting this thread in banter or the like it was more likely to be a little more serious discussion of what people thought of one of our more erudite and more controversial posters.

I recently posted a thread bashing the Democrats for some of California's problems. I knew the topic belonged in politics and current events but I didn't feel like writing a fair, well documented lead in to the thread and was more in the mood to just take a stream of conciousness rip at the situation which I decided was more approriate to banter. I think Skeptic, by posting a topic that might normally go in to banter in P&CE was hoping to accomplish the opposite.

 

[Baker]

AUP is a person who thinks Holocaust was "overdone" ( he apologized for that word later, he just meant it was exploited and abused for Israel's gain, and that it was no big deal, anyway).

He is also someone who makes the same accusations against Israel over and over even after others have refuted them. He does not answer the refutation, he goes on to post them elsewhere, a tad later. One example is the "Arabs are not allowed to buy land in Israel" Electrix corrected him on one thread, and he never responded to her after she posted at least 3 additional posts over the next few days.
http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18464&perpage=40&pagenumber=3 That did not stop him from posting the same assertion in another thread later. http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19826&perpage=40&pagenumber=2 When I reminded him about that, he said he was reasearching the issue, which apparently does not stop him from posting previously refuted statements. http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19510&perpage=40&pagenumber=2


In another such thing he did in this very thread, is this "Israel targets reporters". Skeptic posted an analyisis here http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=377909&highlight=reporter#post377909 Of course, AUP went on to make the claim elsewhere, entirely disregarding what he read.


Some people listen to others and reassess their assumptions. AUP just posts the same old refuted claims. The favorite things I saw so far, in addition to what I mentioned above
Jews use Holocaust to get money out of non Jews and blackmail countries to support Israel
Sharon had a big smile when he went on the Wailing Wall anticipating deaths of thousands
Sharon wants to annex all Palestinian territories and wipe out the Palestinians
Israel is stealing water from Palestinians
US army is either poor starving people forced to war or blood thirsty war criminals- whichever article he stumbled on that day.

There are many others. His posts are quite boringly predictable.

Here is a thread http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15464 in which he is unable to admit that if a book is promoted on Neo Nazi and Holocaust denying sites and crititicized in the media, perhaps the book is a little skewed. It is like relying on "Critical examination of Psychics" if it was endorsed and promoted by John Edward and Sylvia Browne. One would think some alarm bells would ring.

A counter argument to what? Skeptic's determination that AUP must be jealous of the US because he critisizes various US policies? Who cares why AUP makes the arguments he does. I refer you to the "Are you Russian, Victor?" thread.

Being an American and constantly hearing someone criticize and belittle anything and everything the US does has a way of upsetting most Americans.

Indeed, hearing the same old arguments from shanek or from the religious right can be tiresome. So what?

So it does give justification for complaining about it.

His honest opinion, in this case, is indistinguishable from whining.

There is still allot truth in his whining.

 

[Skeptic]

Who's whining? I'm MAKING FUN of AUP.

I'm certainly not asking anybody to ban him, censor him or otherwise limit his rights to expression on this forum. I never claimed AUP did anything to violate forum rules. Nor am I claiming that he somehow hurt my feelings or caused me any harm.

Sheesh!

All I'm saying is that he's a predictable idiot with only two settings: one is "America is bad. America is bad. America is bad. America is...", and the other is "the jews are evil, the jews are evil, the jews are...".

I'd say there's more than enough evidence to prove this claim, despite his protestations and insulted posts to the contrary. I don't see how telling the truth about AUP is "whining".

 

[a_unique_person]

But AUP, I beleive, is saying he is sad that Iraq had become a country not worth fighting for.

Nah. He's just pissed that the Iraqi Army didn't kill more Americans.

No, Tricky got it right.

 

[Baker]

I think AUP is one of the more intelligent and polite posters

You haven’t read many of AUP post have you.
Some of his post appears intelligent until you realize there or no facts behind them.
Don’t get me wrong you have a right to your opinion I think Hal put it well when he said these are some interesting points about opinion, disagreement.

 

[a_unique_person]

Oh yes, AUP is one bloodthirsty individual.

You must have missed his post about supporting the destruction of israel and the genocide of the jews there--and then claiming it isn't antisemitism, because he only supports the butchery of jews "within a strictly limited geographical area".

Sounds rather bloodthirsty to me...

I have never advocated such a thing.

 

[The Fool]

Who's whining? I'm MAKING FUN of AUP.
All I'm saying is that he's a predictable idiot with only two settings: one is "America is bad. America is bad. America is bad. America is...", and the other is "the jews are evil, the jews are evil, the jews are...".

MAYBE
All I'm saying is that he's a predictable idiot with only two settings: one is "America is bad. America is bad. America is bad. America is...", and the other is "the jews are evil, the jews are evil, the jews are...".
PLUS
All I'm saying is that he's a predictable idiot with only two settings: one is "America is faultless. America is faultless. America is faultless. America is...", and the other is "the muslims are evil, the muslims are evil, the muslims are...".
EQUALS ZERO?

maybe A_U_P's contributions simply cancel out yours eh? The cosmic balance is preserved?

Or maybe you could prove me wrong one day?

 

[davefoc]

Skeptic said:

All I'm saying is that he's a predictable idiot with only two settings: one is "America is bad. America is bad. America is bad. America is...", and the other is "the jews are evil, the jews are evil, the jews are...".

Hmm, I may not have been entirely correct about Skeptic's intentions for the thread.

As to the Jews are evil part, I was accused by Skeptic of being anti-semitic when I wrote in another thread that I thought the US favored Israel too much in the Israel/Palestininian disputes. IMHO Skeptic is too quick to see anti-Jew in people that are merely opposed to some of Israel's policies. I think the anti-Jew comment is a serious charge and I don't believe it for an instant concerning AUP.

I thought the Renata post quoted by Baker offered some reasonable criticism that might have some validity. However in her first statement that AUP underestimated the consequences of the holocaust or perhaps was unsympathetic to the people who had endured the holocaust. I don't believe it for a second. AUP strikes me as a bleeding heart liberal who is at least as sympathetic to the plight of the suffering as any conservative. I believe that the discussion that led to this statement was comparing the WWII holocaust with other mass murders in history and the point AUP was making was that there are other mass murders that have resulted in the deaths of more people. Never once did I think he was saying that the holocaust didn't happen or that it wasn't a terrible thing.

As to the America is bad comment and to those of you who have accused AUP of being Anti-American, I also don't believe that. I believe AUP is opposed to a lot of American policies and is often quick to point out evidence that supports his views on this. It might be nice if every now and then he sought out a little pro-American subject and started a thread or two on it, but I don't think it's fair to criticize him for not doing that. I'm sure that he feels that point of view is adequately put forth by others.

Actually I kind of like this idea, how about it AUP, a thread with a pro-America subject? I'm just smiling thinking about you gritting your teeth as you post it. Come on, there's at least one in you, I know it. Whoa, I might be nuts here, but why don't you go for broke, how about a pro-Israel thread?

 

[Tricky]

I think AUP is one of the more intelligent and polite posters

You haven’t read many of AUP post have you.
Some of his post appears intelligent until you realize there or no facts behind them.
Don’t get me wrong you have a right to your opinion I think Hal put it well when he said these are some interesting points about opinion, disagreement.

"Facts" are an extremely elusive quality here. Each person presents their links, evidence and viewpoints. What any of us accept as "facts" depends largely on what we accept as reliable sources. However, AUP has defended his position without much rancor towards any other posters. The same cannot be said of Skeptic (the originator of this thread intended to flame AUP). Sarcasm, I regard as a legitimate tool of debate, especially if done well. Character assasination is not. While I don't agree with Unique on some issues, I have to say he has not strayed from addressing those issues in order to point out how so-and-so has been a constant whiner.

I challenge you to find a thread started by AUP to complain about another poster. Who then is the aggrieved party?

 

[renata]

Tricky, I disagree on one point. AUP has flamed me before, although he did not start a thread on it. Furthermore, on my Conversation thread- the one in which I specifically requested no personal attacks he attacked DrBenway in quite a personal manner- the first flame on the thread. After my request, he deleted the flames. However, a few days after he resumed.

So AUP is not quite an innocent in flame wars, you see.

 

[a_unique_person]

Tricky, I disagree on one point. AUP has flamed me before, although he did not start a thread on it. Furthermore, on my Conversation thread- the one in which I specifically requested no personal attacks he attacked DrBenway in quite a personal manner- the first flame on the thread. After my request, he deleted the flames. However, a few days after he resumed.

So AUP is not quite an innocent in flame wars, you see.

i deleted the first one as requested. It was in response to a particulaly offensive suggestion that the Palestinians were engaged in an act of self-genocide.

The others were when it had already gone into flame mode, at least from my point of view. Baker, for example.

however, you are correct, I have been known to lose my patience, although I do not try to set out to do so.

Perhaps another point worth raising, an aspect of my personality that has been known to annoy my wife from time to time.

I am a problem solving addict. My work in computers provides me with a good outlet for this addiction, as they seem to produce no end of problems. However, work has been a little slow lately, and the Israel/Palestine problem has given me an alternative to gnaw away at. However, the deeper I delve into it, the deeper the problem gets.

 

[renata]

i deleted the first one as requested. It was in response to a particulaly offensive suggestion that the Palestinians were engaged in an act of self-genocide.

The others were when it had already gone into flame mode, at least from my point of view. Baker, for example.

I said you deleted your first flame at my request. I fully reckognize other posters who flamed- that is why I posted a request to keep it civil on several occasions. I was very displeased with ALL flamers- could you not have done it elsewhere? The one thread in which I specifically requested civility had to go the way of all others. I pretty much gave up on that project then- luckily some other posters continued in good faith.

 

[tamiO]

Everyone! To the back of the plane ! Now !

...oh, nm. wrong thread.