A solution to the "well-regulated militia" question?

[Jon_in_london]

Why no. But all our rights have practicle limitations when it comes to public safety. We have "Freedom of Speech" but that doenst mean you can have a 5000 person rally outside the old folks home at 3:00am.

So the right to bear arms can be infringed?

 

[Jon_in_london]

The "militia" is simply the "armed body of the people" under the definition our founders used.

Or is that the definition of a Libetarian nutter who wants 13 year olds to be able to buy PE4 from the local toy store?

 

[Tmy]

Aren't the accidents enough?

http://idea.ap.buffalo.edu/publications/Bathing for Older People.htm




Once we get guns, golf carts and bath tubs under control, we're going after ladders and scaffoldings.

I woudl guess that the % of baths that end in a fatality is much smaller than the % of accidental gun deaths per gun fireing.


The problem with the gun debates is everyone focus's on the extremes. Banning alll guns vs. all kinds of guns for everyone.

 

[crimresearch]

At the moment I think you will agree that there is no militia let a alone a well-regulated one....

...So the right to bear arms can be infringed?


...Or is that the definition of a Libetarian nutter who wants 13 year olds to be able to buy PE4 from the local toy store?

So are those what they call 'strawman' arguments?

 

[Jon_in_london]

Of course, all you have to do is ignore the exact wording of the US Constitution, and US code Title 10 and 32, and the laws in each state, and court rulings, to come to that remarkable conclusion...then you can proceed at your leisure to build whatever fantasy suits you.

Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States.....blagh.....blagh...

 

[Larspeart]

Re: Re: A solution to the "well-regulated militia" question?

My plan calls for every car owner to be compelled to first own a golf cart. The owner would not be allowed to keep the golf cart at home for the first six months but rather it would be safely stored at an authorized country club. During this six month period, the prospective owner would be taught parallel parking and safety for a set fee. During this period a set number of orange cones must be maneuvered around to a satisfactory standard. Basic road rules should be given during this period also.

After the 6 month probationary period, the successful candidate would be awarded his golf cart and a certificate of achivement along with ownership of the golf cart and the right to own a limited range of cars similar to what is now permitted. Because the more cars you own, the more likely you are to kill someone with one.

Car owners should be required to attended further courses on an bi/annual basis as part of traffic with some similarity to the Los Angeles freeway but a bit less intense.

Car ownership is not a right, but a privilege, so there would be no infringement of rights whatsoever. Since cars kill far more people than guns in America, it is only right we do this.

Holy crap! I almost spit my tea all over when i read that!

Nice comeback, and I totally agree. The same insanity thrown right back at him.

 

[Jon_in_london]

So are those what they call 'strawman' arguments?

No, thats what they call "deduction".

 

[geni]

I though the british army debunked the well regulated milita thing between 1812 and 1815.

 

[crimresearch]

Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States.....blagh.....blagh...

Ain't it a shame when the facts get in the way of your great ideas?

The Constitution calls for a militia, and further calls for Congress to organize it...which they do through the laws passed under Title 10, dividing it into two categories, and then the states can define membership as well. The courts have called for ordinary citizens to appear bearing arms of the type in common use at the time...and you can read all of these easy to understand references yourself.

Call the actual facts and documentation 'blagh blagh' all you want, that is the way reality works. There already is a militia.

Now, if what you really meant was that there ought to be some means to exercise common sense safety restrictions on the use of dangerous instruments:

1> That isn't your idea, and others deserve credit for it...

2> Mere technical training would be a good thing, but not a magic wand...reference the amount of training and licensing that goes into other areas, without eliminating misuse there.

 

[Larspeart]

The courts have called for ordinary citizens to appear bearing arms of the type in common use at the time...and you can read all of these easy to understand references yourself.

See? So wouldn;t this arguement legalize semi-automatic weapons, since they are 'in common use at the time'? Seems like we could arm ourselves hoever we damn well felt like. Right?

 

[Luke T.]

I can buy a car that goes 180 mph if I want. No special license needed. Even though the speed limit is 55 mph.

 

[crimresearch]

See? So wouldn;t this arguement legalize semi-automatic weapons, since they are 'in common use at the time'? Seems like we could arm ourselves hoever we damn well felt like. Right?

Semi-automatic as in firing multiple rounds...?

"Semi-automatic: A type of action that when the trigger is pulled it fires the cartridge in the chamber, ejects the fired cartridge case of the cartridge just fired, and loads the next cartridge into the chamber from the magazine. When the trigger is pulled only one shot is fired and a semi-automatic firearm requires one trigger pull for each shot fired. A semi-automatic firearm is often incorrectly referred to as an "automatic" and a witness who uses the incorrect term could confuse or mislead the jury. [FN23]"

http://www.law-forensic.com/firearm_and_law_4.htm


Or are you seriously suggesting that all of that work on the Constitution and the laws, and so forth was just to set up a historical re-enactment society, carrying nothing made after the 1780s?

 

[Jorghnassen]

I say use the Swiss model...

 

[Michael Redman]

I though the british army debunked the well regulated milita thing between 1812 and 1815.

Who's argued that a well regulated militia means never having to raise a proper army during war? In case you weren't aware, we were then a small, young nation fighting the strongest army on earth.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Who's argued that a well regulated militia means never having to raise a proper army during war? In case you weren't aware, we were then a small, young nation fighting the strongest army on earth.

The French under Napoleon? The British navy was its strong point, not its army. 1812 was largely a naval war, which is why it was such a pain for the US.

 

[Jon_in_london]

Who's argued that a well regulated militia means never having to raise a proper army during war? In case you weren't aware, we were then a small, young nation fighting the strongest army on earth.

Theres no need to flatter the Iraqis like that...

 

[Tmy]

So the right to bear arms can be infringed?

Under circumstances.........yes. Otherwise you could have prisoners with sidearms. All our rights have limits when they start to canibalize other rights.

 

[Michael Redman]

The French under Napoleon? The British navy was its strong point, not its army. 1812 was largely a naval war, which is why it was such a pain for the US.

I guess I don't give enough credit to the allies part in that weak British army defeating that strong French army in 1815.

Jon, Iraqis in 1812? I'm missing your point. (Obviously too subtle for a simple American.)

 

[TragicMonkey]

I guess I don't give enough credit to the allies part in that weak British army defeating that strong French army in 1815.

Prussians come in handy, when they fight on the right side.

 

[Nikk]

Who's argued that a well regulated militia means never having to raise a proper army during war? In case you weren't aware, we were then a small, young nation fighting the strongest army on earth.

You were fighting Napoleon? News to me.

What you had to fight were what men and ships the British could spare from the real war.

Anyway you started it .