A Soldier On Obama

[Cicero]

Reagan's brain sprang a l;eak before he became governor of California. He caused a lot of the homeless problems by closing down the out-patient mental health facilities, then just shrugged off the untreated zanies roaming the street as an intractible problem and not that big a deal, since we had the cops.

I don't give a rat's how poular the dimbulb was. Hitler was kind of popular at one time, as I recall.

This is the type of intended (it is intended, isn't it?) liberal satire that even Gore Vidal would be too embarrassed to use during his battles with William F. Buckley.

 

[leftysergeant]

And whose money was it doing the rebuilding? Iraq's or the US'?

We owe the Iraqis that much. We were not invited to liberate them. A group of our industrialists decided it was a good idea and then sold the idea to the Moron-in_Chief.

I take that as an admission you are a socialist? Which of Denmark's parties do you belong to, Toke?

Better a Socialist than a Friedmanite pirate like Bremmer. Those morons have screwed up every country they have touched. You don't need to be a socialist to consider Milton Friedman an international criminal.

Whose billions disappeared? Iraq's or the US'?

Ours, because lamebrain Bremmer didn't keep records.

And stop whining about my calling Reagan a jelly-brain.

The left was calling him senile when he became president and the right got their panties all in a bunch and called it mean-spirited and baseless. It became clear by the end of 1989 that we had been right all along.

BTW, he was a rotten president. Second worst in my lifetime, by far. I hope it stays that way.

Barack and roll.

 

[Toke]

As a beliver in wmd and humanitarian invasion, you belong in the woo section.

Yes I am a socialist.
What difference does that make to bremmers dismantling of irak?
It sounds just like when you tried to write off iraki civilian dead/displaced as unimportant by claming it is only 15% not 25% of the population.
It must be a fallacity by itself

The rebuild disappeared around 20 billion of iraki money from their oil fund, the rest comes from american taxpayers.
American Taxpayers, hallo.

I assume it is a republican´s patriotic duty to rip off taxpayers on behalf of private contractors.
How else can you say tax is theft.
And the rebuild efford still does not work.

 

[BeAChooser]

He caused a lot of the homeless problems by closing down the out-patient mental health facilities, then just shrugged off the untreated zanies roaming the street as an intractible problem and not that big a deal, since we had the cops.

As usual you have the facts wrong and are only telling a fraction of the whole story. The truth is that mental health and developmental professionals (who are notoriously liberal and in the vast majority vote ... well ... democrat) wanted the State of California out of the business of incarcerating the mentally ill and chronically homeless. Reagan merely acted on their recommendations.

The law that Reagan signed was the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act. The idea was to "stem entry into the state hospital by encouraging the community system to accept more patients, hopefully improving quality of care while allowing state expense to be alleviated by the newly available federal funds." It also was designed to protect the rights of mental patients.

It was considered landmark legislation at the time ... by liberals -- a positive change in the attitude towards the mentally ill. The law restricted involuntary commitment, among other things. It allows people to refuse treatment for mental illness, unless they are clearly a danger to someone else or themselves.

State Senator Frank Lanterman was a Republican, but he was addressing a need vocalized by the left in california. He's also the author of the 1977 Lanterman Developmental Disabilities Act, which expanded protections that developmentally disabled people enjoy. He didn't see eye to eye with Reagan on many things. State Senators Nick Petris and Alan Short were both Democrats.

Reagan's role, besides signing the bill, was using it as a reason to cut his budget (which was crippling California's economy at the time thanks to the previous democrat policies). At the same time, reduced the budget for state mental hospitals. The law presumed that the people released from hospitals or not committed at all would be funneled in community treatment as provided by the Short Doyle Act of 1957. That was "was designed to organize and finance community mental health services for persons with mental illness through locally administered and locally controlled community health programs." It also presumed that the mentally ill would voluntarily accept treatment, if it were made available to them on a community basis.

However, because of the restrictions on involuntary commitment, seriously mentally ill people who would not consent to treatment became a community dilemma. Once released, they would fail to take their medications or get counseling and went right back to being seriously ill. Also, unfortunately, at the time LPS was implemented, funding for community systems either declined or was not beefed up. Many counties did not have adequate community mental health services in place and were unable to fund them. Federal funds for community mental health programs, which LPS assumed would pick up the slack, began drying up in the early 1980s, due to budget cutbacks in general. Funding for county mental health programs also suffered due to Proposition 13.

The truth is that Reagan was not involved in this movement, nor was he symbolic of it. Quite the contrary. The people who 'liberated' the inmates tended to be on the opposite end of the political spectum. Yours, lefty. In fact, it was the ACLU who provided legal representation to force the VA to release patients.

On last point, lefty. Who do you think is fighting reform now? The Coalition Advocating for Rights Empowerment and Services. That's a liberal organization. The federally funded Protection & Advocacy, Inc., the California Network of Mental Health Clients and the California Association of Mental Health Patients Rights Advocates. All of them liberal. Civil rights lawyers and the defense bar that supply the bulk of hearing officers under the LPS Act. They are all liberal too. So you best clean your own house, lefty, before you go barking at Reagan for being the cause of your problems. Stop trying to rewrite history to suit your political agenda.

 

[WildCat]

Water treatment, electrical generation, sewers, hospitals, roads, bridges. you know, the stuff that makes the difference between a functioning modern nation and a Third world disaster zone.

Please show where we bombed water treatment plants, sewage plants, hospitals, etc. and also which bridges we destroyed haven't been rebuilt.

All that stuff the the right wing says we are building for the iraqis? Guess who broke it in the first place.

Why don't you tell us? Be sure to provide sources!

Guess who shut down all the state industries, including the country's only cewment factory.

There are no cement factories in Iraq today?

 

[BeAChooser]

We were not invited to liberate them.

And who do you think would have done the "inviting" if someone had, lefty?

Better a Socialist than a Friedmanite pirate like Bremmer.

I take this as an admission that you also are a socialist. Which socialist party do you belong to lefty?

Quote:
Whose billions disappeared? Iraq's or the US'?

Ours

So how can Toke believe we went into rob the Iraqis? Isn't that just woo, lefty?

And stop whining about my calling Reagan a jelly-brain.

I didn't whine. I just proved you were spouting woo too.

The left was calling him senile when he became president

And yet he turned out to be a fabulous President in the opinion of most. Even democrats at his funeral swooned over his legacy. And now democrats are claiming that McCain is senile. See where I'm going with this, lefty?

It became clear by the end of 1989 that we had been right all along.

Reagan left office in 1989, lefty, at the age of 78. And his actions the second term were in large part the reason the Soviet Union collapsed. So you haven't been right about anything, so far. McCain is only 72 and has stated he will not run for a second term. So your allegations of impending senility may be a bit premature. And Reagan didn't die of senility. He died of Alzheimers, which was diagnosed in 1994. All four of Reagan's White House doctors said that they saw no evidence of Alzheimer's while he was president. Dr. John E. Hutton, Reagan's primary physician from 1984 to 1989, said the president "absolutely" did not "show any signs of dementia or Alzheimer's". Can't you get anything right, lefty?

Barack and roll.

Gee, that's almost as catchy as "lipstick on a pig".

 

[Toke]

So how can Toke believe we went into rob the Iraqis? Isn't that just woo, lefty?

You can rob the irakis of their oil by giving your own companies* good contracts, at the same time you rob the american taxpayers by wasting money on mostly useless rebuild.

Tax is theft.

*The ones contributing to republican coffers.

 

[WildCat]

That's a dispicable lie. He picked up a live grenade not knowing it was live. It was not his own. I checked a couple of sites on this including your sweetheart, Ann Coulter's site. She says so so it must be true, right?

Beat me to it again. How far does someones head need to be under the right wing media's sand to not know this?

Sorry if I made an error in my recollection. The real story isn't any better for Max. How the hell does a trained soldier not know a live grenade from one with the pin intact? And I've never been a consumer of "right wing media".

They were better off under Saddam, when rival religious fac tions were not blowing each other to hell and a foreign army was not there demanding that they turn over the operation of their only significant source of foreign revenue to our parasitic oil barons.

Ah, shades of the old "blacks were better off under slavery" argument.

 

[WildCat]

You can rob the irakis of their oil by giving your own companies* good contracts, at the same time you rob the american taxpayers by wasting money on mostly useless rebuild.

Tax is theft.

*The ones contributing to republican coffers.

Ah, the old lie about stealing oil.

Can you quantify how much oil was stolen Toke? And while you're at it, explain this article: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5grnNTt753b5YuvnQ3ldeRK7D4omg

 

[jmercer]

Folks, I believe the subject of this thread has something to do with Obama. Let's try to get back to that, shall we?

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer

 

[BeAChooser]

As a beliver in wmd and humanitarian invasion, you belong in the woo section.

Wow, what a comeback to the fact filled post I offered.

Yes I am a socialist.

And which socialist party in Denmark do you belong to? And are you championing Obama because you see him as a fellow socialist?

It sounds just like when you tried to write off iraki civilian dead/displaced as unimportant by claming it is only 15% not 25% of the population.

I did no such thing. I suggest you go back and actually CAREFULLY read what I posted.

The rebuild disappeared around 20 billion of iraki money from their oil fund

In April 2007, Radi al-Radhi, who runs Iraq's Public Integrity Commission, said that $8 billion was wasted or stolen in the previous 3 years. Are you now claiming that another $12 billion was stolen in the last year? Prove it. And prove that any of these lost funds ended up in US hands ... especially those of Bush's cronies. That was your initial claim. That we are robbers. So back it up or admit your dishonesty or woo.

And the rebuild efford still does not work.

And how do you know this for a fact?

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2006/11/the_untold_story_of_iraq_recon.html

The Washington Times’ Rowan Scarborough chronicles the heroic efforts of military, civilian, and private contractors in completing over 4,000 projects since the 2003 invasion. The Army is the executive agent for Iraqi reconstruction, and the effort is led by Dean G. Popps, who is the principal assistant secretary of the Army for acquisitions, logistics and technology. According to Popps:

“Most Americans don’t understand something equivalent to the Marshall Plan has been accomplished in Iraq.”

Under the supervision of the Army Corps of Engineers, electric grids, health care centers, schools, water and sewage treatment facilities, and police stations have been refurbished or built from scratch. This huge program has been extremely successful, while receiving largely negative press coverage with an emphasis on corruption and mismanagement. But the latest assessment from Stuart Bowen, the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, notes that the vast majority of projects have “proceeded as required.”

That was in 2006. And read the rest of that article, Toke. It contains a numerous facts about the poor condition that Saddam's infrastructure was in before the war (contrary to leftist thinking) and what had already been accomplished in rebuilding it since the invasion. The facts certainly don't support your assertion that the US went in to rob the Iraqis.

Now admittedly, there were many setbacks. In large part because of insurgent efforts and Iraqi corruption. But now, thanks to the surge, and a greater focus both externally and internally, reconstruction efforts are getting on track. As the recent Bowen report noted "Improved security across the country has helped reduce attacks on oil pipelines, and the electricity sector's expanded operations and maintenance programs have helped increase production." Iraq oil production is now above pre-war levels and climbing, as are many statistics. In fact, things are going well enough that there is now talk of Iraq carrying the bulk of the expense.

You want to see signs of success:

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=&g2_itemId=6013

And Obama's proposals vis a vis Iraq would endanger that.

 

[BeAChooser]

Folks, I believe the subject of this thread has something to do with Obama. Let's try to get back to that, shall we?

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer

Sorry, but Obama supporters are the ones who claimed what the soldier in the video said about Iraq is not true. I think this discussion has been very useful in showing the lack of knowledge and misinformation on which Obama's supporters, here and abroad, are basing their choice.

 

[Nogbad]

I love how when a solider is on the Democrats side, he gets roundly criticized. LOVE IT!

Everything is good until you support the wrong side. It is the rules dontcha know

 

[leftysergeant]

There are no cement factories in Iraq today?

I have not heard of its being reopened since the idiot Bremmer ordered it closed and put up for sale.

 

[leftysergeant]

Sorry, but Obama supporters are the ones who claimed what the soldier in the video said about Iraq is not true. I think this discussion has been very useful in showing the lack of knowledge and misinformation on which Obama's supporters, here and abroad, are basing their choice.

How many of the people saying that the soldier is wrong are both Obama supporters and veterans? How many agreeing with the soldier and supporting McCain are veterans?

I live in a town that is full of veterans and active duty soldiers and I am seeing about ten Obama bumper stickers for ever McCain.

 

[BeAChooser]

How many agreeing with the soldier and supporting McCain are veterans?

lefty ... you don't know anything about me. Because this isn't about me.

I live in a town that is full of veterans and active duty soldiers and I am seeing about ten Obama bumper stickers for ever McCain.

Shall we agree to a bet? That more active duty soldiers vote for McCain/Palin than Obama/Biden? What should be the stakes? A month's silence on this forum? Here's a preview of the outcome if you accept.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/08/military_favors.html

August 19, 2008

While troops deployed abroad might be giving more money to Barack Obama, a poll released today says that John McCain will get the vast majority of votes from members of the military and veterans.

According to Gallup, McCain leads Obama 56 percent to 34 percent, with 11 percent expressing no opinion or picking someone else.

 

[volant]

The best part was "God Bless the USA" at the end. I also like how/when we discover he is an amputee, presumably 'cause of the war, another excellent touch. Only a great soldier would put himself to use by making a piece of political propaganda.

For a factual account of how many Marines and Seabees feel about the war, read "No True Glory" by Bing West. Great read.

 

[BeAChooser]

Say, where did Toke go?

http://www.syvnews.com/articles/2008/09/09/news/news03.txt

‘Sister City’ Danes working in U.S. election

... snip ...

Forty-four members of the Danmarks Socialdemokratiske Ungdom (Danish for Social Democratic Youth of Denmark, known as DSU) have traveled more than 5,000 miles not only to visit the United States, but to attend the Democratic National Convention and support Obama’s candidacy.

... snip ...

“In the state of Virginia (just outside of the capital) we coordinated with the U.S. Democratic Party to make telephone calls for the Obama campaign to help register new voters,” Ingstrup said.

 

[Roadtoad]

I just hate the direction threads like this take. Both sides have some solid information, but neither is willing to listen to the other.

I have friends like those LeftySergeant describes, good NCOs who found themselves forced out because of troop reductions which we now see were ill considered. I also see the point that we were misled when it came to going into Iraq. I don't believe it was all for profit, (though it sure has been profitable for Halliburton), and that a number of people went in expecting to lose money simply because there was a belief that we were doing a good thing for the Iraqi people.

At the same time, there is significant evidence that Saddam Hussein supported terrorism, including backing Abu Nidal. At one point, he ordered Nidal out of Iraq because Nidal represented a significant threat.

There's also the long list of atrocities committed by his thuggish brood, particularly Ouday and Qusay.

No, the Iraqi people haven't been as well served as they could have been. There's no reason why we should have shut down their own businesses and industries, but at the same time, it's a mistake to claim that we did no good at all by going in. Yes, it should have been the Iraqi people who overthrew Hussein. We should have concentrated our efforts on Afghanistan and eliminating Bin Laden, while helping the Afghans rebuild their nation.

Unfortunately, that's not where things are now.

So, which candidate is going to do the best job in rebuilding the damage GWB and crew did to us? Personally, I think the person who could do it isn't running. (No, I don't know who it is, but I'm tempted to write in Leiberman as a protest vote.) But I know it sure as hell ain't Obama, who hasn't a clue what a military force is for, which Rush Limbaugh (quoting MacArthur, one of the very few things he's gotten right) has described as "Killing people and breaking things."

Sorry. Thanks to the past few administrations, our military has gone from being a genuine force of destruction to our enemies to becoming a phony force of philianthropic fallacy.

 

[Oliver]

Almost reminiscent of the old time German soldier who followed orders regardless of the level of depravity that motivated his superiors.

Well, I don't make a difference between soldiers in 1935 and soldiers
in 2008. They tend to believe in the same crap their leaders tell them.
And regarding the soldier in question, he seems to read a tele-promter,
something a nazi-soldier would've done in the same naive way, wouldn't
he?