A sincere question for any theist...

[Kitty Chan]

Originally posted by Seismosaurus
As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence.

You don't pay attention to the news, do you?

Horrible tragedy occurs, 'n' people die. Survivor or family member of mangled survivor in hospital interviewed: "God was looking out for me/{insert name}."

I was asking who specifically said the fifty people died in bus comment. The others you quote are not quite as impressive as that one. Or was it just made up for effect??

 

[Seismosaurus]

Originally posted by Seismosaurus
As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence.



I was asking who specifically said the fifty people died in bus comment. The others you quote are not quite as impressive as that one. Or was it just made up for effect??

It was a generic example. That's why i said things such as that.

But it's not that over the top really. I mean, I remember people saying god was working a miracle because they were running late and missed being in the WTC on 9/11.

 

[Kitty Chan]

I assume that everyone picks and chooses what part of the bible they will believe in and what part is of little or no consequence. This is exactly my point. For every person who reads the bible there is a different but equal opinion of what the bible says. From the most dogmatic fundimentalist to the atheist, all (to me) are equal in their interpretation. Any further discussion of who is right and who is wrong would involve the presentation of evidence. Read my signature.

Well I still go with what I said earlier, that if those that pull out what they want would be a interesting line. Those that believe the whole book would be a different line up.

As for your sig I guess Im opposite I looked to evolution to find what REALLY happened and found it was lacking any solid proof and was still theroies. So eventually I chose a theory that made the most sense to my heart because actually both require faith because neither has definative proof.

 

[Kitty Chan]

It was a generic example. That's why i said things such as that.

But it's not that over the top really. I mean, I remember people saying god was working a miracle because they were running late and missed being in the WTC on 9/11.

Now theres a good comment, I cant agree with them saying its a miricle because they were late, but truthfully I dont know for sure. But since it seems mean, I would have to say the miricles that day was the comfort and care strangers gave to one another. Those that were late I would have to borrow a line from Private Ryan and thats "make it count" that you lived.

Maybe the other miricles were the rest of the planes didnt hit their bigger targets.

 

[Cosmo]

Now theres a good comment, I cant agree with them saying its a miricle because they were late, but truthfully I dont know for sure. But since it seems mean, I would have to say the miricles that day was the comfort and care strangers gave to one another. Those that were late I would have to borrow a line from Private Ryan and thats "make it count" that you lived.

Maybe the other miricles were the rest of the planes didnt hit their bigger targets.

[dictionary.com]
mir·a·cle Â_Â_n. An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God
[/dictionary.com]

How is it a miracle that they were late to work, or that the other planes didn't hit? In the case of the former, sheer blind luck and random chance seem a far more logical explanation - perhaps the train was late, or they had to stop for gas in the car, and so forth.

In the case of the latter, it was more likely the efforts of the people on board the planes. A family friend of mine lost a brother on 9/11. He was on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, and minutes before he died, he called her on his cell phone and told her that he was getting together with some other passengers to storm the cockpit. It seems that they were successful.

Scary? Yes.
Miracle? No.

 

[Piscivore]

I would have to say the miricles that day was the comfort and care strangers gave to one another.

Maybe the other miricles were the rest of the planes didnt hit their bigger targets.

Kitty, I've told you before I consider you a shining example of the best a Christian could be, but I have to take issue with these statements. These were examples of human decency, compassion, and courage. Nothing "miraculous" about it at all. (Okay, it was New York, but still )

If that's the best "miracle" god can pull off these days, who needs him?

 

[evildave]

Originally posted by Seismosaurus
As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence.

I was asking who specifically said the fifty people died in bus comment. The others you quote are not quite as impressive as that one. Or was it just made up for effect??

Oh, sorry, bus related god quotes it is...

In recent news, 45 injured children seems to be about as close as it gets to the figure.

http://www.wistv.com/global/Story.asp?s=2405673

(Winnsboro) Oct. 8, 2004 - Some 45 students from were taken McCorey-Liston Elementary School in Fairfield County were taken to Midlands hospitals Thursday, most with minor injuries, after the South Carolina Highway Patrol says a 10-wheel service delivery truck ran a stop sign and collided with a school bus.

...

They're lucky to be alive, and I just thank God there were no casualties with the children. It's just a blessing that the children are still alive."

http://www.memphisflyer.com/content.asp?ID=3035&onthefly=1

John Edward Coney of McComb, Mississippi -- whose mother, Maxie Lyons, was among the dead and whose father, Billy Joe Lyons was being cared for at The Med -- was doing his best to be philosophical. “I was brought up not to question God’s will, but at a time like this, you have to wonder why,” he said.

http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=103963

"‘Anything could have happened — the bus could have gone on straight and mowed down vehicles in front, the bus could have plunged into the river. By God’s Grace, no one was injured. So many passengers were saved from a horrible fate,’’ says Barathe.

15 Dead on Casino Trip - (15 rhymes with 50)
http://www.dhonline.com/articles/2004/10/10/news/nation/nat01.txt

"This thing that happened, nobody has an answer for. All we can do is direct them to God,'' said the Rev. Curtis Reed, who was serving as a family spokesman.

Same Crash, Earlier Death Toll
http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/local_story_285182004.html

“First of all, I thank God that I am among the land of the living because I did not have to be here,” said Twanda Frazier, 58, who is the first passenger to be able to speak about the accident.

A couple of sites just for bus plunges... but seem to be edited down from the original content, some of which will certainly have had the gratuitous 'praise god' quotes in them.
http://users.lmi.net/tcs55/
http://users.rcn.com/tcs.interport/

 

[Piscivore]

"This thing that happened, nobody has an answer for. All we can do is direct them to God,'' said the Rev. Curtis Reed, who was serving as a family spokesman.

Finally, a theist that seems ready to take his god to task for the magical mystery crapfest that is our world. If he's going to have a god, at least he's willing to place blame where it belongs.

 

[Kitty Chan]

I cant agree with them saying its a miricle because they were late, but truthfully I dont know for sure.

Just to be sure I said I didnt agree to call it a miracle (I cant even spell the word right )

 

[Kitty Chan]

But since it seems mean, I would have to say the miricles that day was the comfort and care strangers gave to one another. Those that were late I would have to borrow a line from Private Ryan and thats "make it count" that you lived.

Maybe the other miricles were the rest of the planes didnt hit their bigger targets.

Ok I will clarify I didnt realise I was tossing the miracle word around I guess cause I cant spelt it I recked it.

So I will say your right Cosmo on the defination, I stand corrected.

I was trying to point out what was more important on that day and that was the sacrifice of people.

And it would be more accurate to say that day it showed the depth possible that people can attain in showing comfort, care, love to one another.

And for what its worth Cosmo we closed our company on 9-11 and sent everyone home immediately, not for protection but respect. We hung an American Flag in our window for months.

 

[Kitty Chan]

Originally posted by Seismosaurus
As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence.

Dave I was commenting on what is above and that for someone to say that 50 people died but 1 lived is

"proof of Gods existance "

is wrong.

Thats why I asked who said it.


As for bad things happening on buses and whatever, and people are praising God. Yes really stupid right? It bugged me too. Thank God and praise Him? Not stupid really.

When one has trouble straight away they actually curse God for the situation, life in general, people who dont help, your boss, coworkers, spouse, friend, the guy in the street, your dog, government everyone but the man in the mirror for the situation.

Its easy to praise God when the sun is shining and alls well. But its harder when its raining and you're out of gas. When one says thanks to God in all situations, then in the bad ones, it takes you outside your problems to see a bigger picture of whats going on.

And then solutions come easier when you are not cursing and complaining on how bad you got it. Thats why praise God in all things, thats what the people are doing.

Whether one agrees or not that is the reason for praising God in all things.

 

[Cosmo]

When one has trouble straight away they actually curse God for the situation, life in general, people who dont help, your boss, coworkers, spouse, friend, the guy in the street, your dog, government everyone but the man in the mirror for the situation.

Agreed. People tend to blame others instead of themselves.

Its easy to praise God when the sun is shining and alls well. But its harder when its raining and you're out of gas. When one says thanks to God in all situations, then in the bad ones, it takes you outside your problems to see a bigger picture of whats going on.

When "the sun is shining and alls well" I'm not praising god. I enjoy the day for what it is and take a walk to enjoy the weather. I don't see any reason to invoke any deity in this case.

And then solutions come easier when you are not cursing and complaining on how bad you got it. Thats why praise God in all things, thats what the people are doing.

Whether one agrees or not that is the reason for praising God in all things.

Speak for yourself. Not everyone feels the need to praise God for everything good that happens, moreover, not everyone believes the guy exists in the first place.

 

[Kitty Chan]

Cosmo

Im just explaining what the people who do the praising are on about, thats why I said that even if you dont agree thats why THEY do what they do.

 

[1inChrist]

I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others.

I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it...

"Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line.

Question...Who is right?

Question...Why you?

Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?"

BROTHER YOU MUST READ THE WORD AND INTERPRET IT YOUR OWN WAY. YOU MUST INVITE THE HOLY GHOST INTO YOUR HEART SO HE MAY HELP YOU UNDERSTAND GOD'S MESSAGE! YOU MUST MEDITATE AND THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT HIS WORD. DO NOT FOLLOW A CHURCH. DO NOT ALLOW ANY MIDDLE MAN IN YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD! READ AND INTERPRET HIS WORD YOUR OWN WAY. ALWAYS REMEMBER BROTHER, GOD LOVES YOU!

 

[Cosmo]

With 1inC's new posting style of large, capitalized, colored letters, I think he's left the realm of moderately annoying, occasionally funny posting and graduated into the land of cataract-causing, pain-inducing, where's-the-user-ignore-button trolling.

 

[1inChrist]

With 1inC's new posting style of large, capitalized, colored letters, I think he's left the realm of moderately annoying, occasionally funny posting and graduated into the land of cataract-causing, pain-inducing, where's-the-user-ignore-button trolling.

I think you've left the realm of moderately ignorant to hardcore BUFFOON!

 

[Kitty Chan]

1inChrist

What do you mean interpet in YOUR own way.

How can it be your own way if its the Holy Ghost who directs you.

Wouldnt it be Gods way not yours?

If you mean study the Word and prayfully consider the words, ask for help to understand what you read. And talk to other christians about what you discovered in the Word to learn and confirm you are on the path. Surf the net go to Billy Grahams site see what he says about the subject.

If you say you do not need others then I would ask you what Gods Word says about accountability? How would you answer that?

 

[Kitty Chan]

Also, can you explain to me how calling Cosmo a buffon is in accordance with seeing others how Christ sees them??

Or thinking of things that are pure and lovely?

 

[1inChrist]

1inChrist

What do you mean interpet in YOUR own way.

Do not use middle men.

How can it be your own way if its the Holy Ghost who directs you.

It's not your way but I am speaking at a skeptic's level. Listen, it's easy to identify those who merely have an interpretation from those who actually had God's hand guide them through His Word.

Wouldnt it be Gods way not yours?

Yes but I am speaking at a human level. The skeptic does not understand this much yet and still has the illusion that they are the higher authority.

If you mean study the Word and prayfully consider the words, ask for help to understand what you read. And talk to other christians about what you discovered in the Word to learn and confirm you are on the path. Surf the net go to Billy Grahams site see what he says about the subject.

I do not care what Billy Graham has to say.

If you say you do not need others then I would ask you what Gods Word says about accountability? How would you answer that? [/B]

Of what?

 

[1inChrist]

Also, can you explain to me how calling Cosmo a buffon is in accordance with seeing others how Christ sees them??

Or thinking of things that are pure and lovely?

Who said I was perfect? I call them as I see them. Cosmo is 100% pure buffoon.