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Split Thread A second impeachment

"And if you don't correct it, it's validating the truth of the BS."

Yep.

We let, hell encouraged, the Internet (to) destroy all forms of discourse, information verification, and information processing and that left us with "ignore them" being our only option, but as I keep pointing out "Ignoring them" is not a valid option and if the last four years haven't proven that to everyone's satisfaction I truly don't know what to say.

We have to get intellectual standards back. We have to pull the trolls back from the post-fact world or, and I cannot stress this enough, not only is everything we do pointless, it's actually counter-productive and self-destructive.
 
Well, how far are the Republicans willing to go to promote healing? Will they unanimously denounce fraud allegations and enter an agreement in the record that the allegations were completely baseless? Will Ted Cruz et al. stipulate that their calls for delay were an attempt to subvert democracy (and in some cases appeared designed to inflame the mob that rolled through Jan. 6?)

Honestly I don't know why Graham is even bothering. I guess so he can tell Trump he's done everything he can. But really, who the hell cares what Lindsey Graham says? What does he have to offer anyone?

Nope (American Independent) Jim Jordan, as just one example:

However, he [Jordan] insisted, "Congress needs to stop" trying to remove Trump from office, "one week before he is set to leave."

"Continued calls to impeach the president or remove him from office using the 25th Amendment I don't think are healthy for our nation," he said. "Rushing this resolution to the floor will do nothing to unify or heal the country."
Jordan's Democratic colleagues balked at that suggestion.

"I'm asking you to make a statement that the election was not stolen, that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won fair and square, that's the question," Rep. Jim McGovern (D-MA), the chair of the House Rules Committee, told Jordan, following the Ohio congressman's comments.

Jordan refused to do that, admitting that Biden would be president, but rejecting that idea that he had won fairly.

Jordan went on to demand investigations into the election results, despite the fact that the Justice Department itself has said there was no widespread fraud, as Trump and many Republicans have suggested. Nearly 60 judges have ruled against lawsuits filed by Trump and his GOP allies that alleged such fraud, typically without any evidence.

Jordan's stubbornness stands in contrast with his calls for "unity" and demands that Democrats drop the effort to impeach Trump a second time.

ETA- You know what's really not healthy for our nation, Mr Jordan? Biden got just over 81 million votes, Trump a little better than 74 million. I would be willing to bet that a significant fraction of Trump's 74+-million don't, in fact, think the election was a fraud, and that you're really only speaking for (and courting the votes of) the bad losers. But you owe it to them, even if not to anyone else, to assure them that their votes weren't wasted- that, in fact, their loss was a fair one, and not, just by definition, a cheat. It would go a long way toward unity, and restoring faith in the integrity of our electoral process, for you to concede that, in that process, one side is going to win, and another is going to lose, and sometimes it's your side that loses. That's just the way democracy rolls.
 
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I would be willing to bet that a significant fraction of Trump's 74+-million don't, in fact, think the election was a fraud, and that you're really only speaking for (and courting the votes of) the bad losers.

You're going to get terrible odds on that - because it appears to be about 50/50.

Which says that around 37,000,000 or your fellow Americans are ignorant and repugnant conspiracy-believing morons.
 
Well, how far are the Republicans willing to go to promote healing? Will they unanimously denounce fraud allegations and enter an agreement in the record that the allegations were completely baseless? Will Ted Cruz et al. stipulate that their calls for delay were an attempt to subvert democracy (and in some cases appeared designed to inflame the mob that rolled through Jan. 6?)

Honestly I don't know why Graham is even bothering. I guess so he can tell Trump he's done everything he can. But really, who the hell cares what Lindsey Graham says? What does he have to offer anyone?

Have Republicans offered anything for the healing, besides not wanting anything to do with holding Trump accountable?
 
Have Republicans offered anything for the healing, besides not wanting anything to do with holding Trump accountable?

It's probably worth specifically acknowledging that *some* Republicans have, in fact, acknowledged Biden's legitimacy, that he won fair and square, AND called for healing. I'm not going to bash them on that or refuse to acknowledge that. Generally, however, those ones are not screaming opposition to impeaching Trump by the look of it. It's the far, far too many that call for healing as nothing more than an inane objection to impeaching Trump while still pushing the divisive falsehoods that infested the wounds that they are also largely responsible for that deserve total scorn.
 
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Hate to break the news (unless already ninja'd): Rudy Giuliani now says he won’t [be] on the Trump impeachment defense team. “Because I gave an earlier speech [at the January 6 Trump rally], I am a witness and therefore unable to participate in court or Senate chamber,”

He told this to ABC's WH correspondent Jonathan Karl.

https://twitter.com/jonkarl/status/1351020777261424640
 
Have Republicans offered anything for the healing, besides not wanting anything to do with holding Trump accountable?

Marjorie Taylor Greene has promised to introduce impeachment articles against Biden on January 20. That's where the unity and healing begins. :rolleyes:
 
We let, hell encouraged, the Internet (to) destroy all forms of discourse, information verification, and information processing and that left us with "ignore them" being our only option, but as I keep pointing out "Ignoring them" is not a valid option and if the last four years haven't proven that to everyone's satisfaction I truly don't know what to say.

I don't know what to say either. If there was one thing that literally nobody did for four years, it was ignoring Trump.

Trump has been on the radar 24/7 for four years. Sometimes his campaigns were being livestreamed by every mainstream media outlet even when he wasn't on the stage.

For some reason, literally nobody could ignore even the most obvious attention grabs by Trump and his acolytes.

Finally, finally, fina - ******* - ly, Twitter has pulled the plug on him and now it seems he might actually lose his power, because the media who kept reporting his every outrageous tweet that they could not possibly ignore have been deprived of their crack supply and suddenly Trump disappears.
 
Marjorie Taylor Greene has promised to introduce impeachment articles against Biden on January 20. That's where the unity and healing begins. :rolleyes:

21st, I thought. The optics of trying to impeach him before he's actually done anything are a bit iffy, but give him 24 hours and he's bound to have eaten a few babies.

Dave
 
Marjorie Taylor Greene has promised to introduce impeachment articles against Biden on January 20. That's where the unity and healing begins. :rolleyes:

I supposed it'd be too much to ask that she at least wait until he does something, let alone a high crime or misdemeanor?

Maybe we should start a pool on how long it takes before she's laughed out of the House Chamber.

ETA: Ninja'd!
 
I supposed it'd be too much to ask that she at least wait until he does something, let alone a high crime or misdemeanor?

Maybe we should start a pool on how long it takes before she's laughed out of the House Chamber.

ETA: Ninja'd!

How can we have unity and healing if we wait that long? We must act NOW with impeachment of Biden to bring peace to our patriotic country. Unless we restore Trump as President, this country cannot heal and cannot continue in unity and we have the guns to prove that argument. Etc. Etc.
 
21st, I thought. The optics of trying to impeach him before he's actually done anything are a bit iffy, but give him 24 hours and he's bound to have eaten a few babies.

Dave

I supposed it'd be too much to ask that she at least wait until he does something, let alone a high crime or misdemeanor?

Maybe we should start a pool on how long it takes before she's laughed out of the House Chamber.

ETA: Ninja'd!

Why ?

A majority of GOP House representatives voted against certifying the results of the election. On that basis, the view that Joe Biden is not really the legitimate President (and therefore should be impeached, and convicted to remove him from power*) is the majority view within the Republican Party.

IOW, impeaching President Biden on day 1 would be the mainstream GOP view.

*- presumably followed by each Democratic President in turn until a Republican becomes President.
 
Hate to break the news (unless already ninja'd): Rudy Giuliani now says he won’t [be] on the Trump impeachment defense team. “Because I gave an earlier speech [at the January 6 Trump rally], I am a witness and therefore unable to participate in court or Senate chamber,”

He told this to ABC's WH correspondent Jonathan Karl.

https://twitter.com/jonkarl/status/1351020777261424640

Maybe he's getting tired of not being paid.
 
How can we have unity and healing if we wait that long? We must act NOW with impeachment of Biden to bring peace to our patriotic country. Unless we restore Trump as President, this country cannot heal and cannot continue in unity and we have the guns to prove that argument. Etc. Etc.

Why ?

A majority of GOP House representatives voted against certifying the results of the election. On that basis, the view that Joe Biden is not really the legitimate President (and therefore should be impeached, and convicted to remove him from power*) is the majority view within the Republican Party.

IOW, impeaching President Biden on day 1 would be the mainstream GOP view.

*- presumably followed by each Democratic President in turn until a Republican becomes President.

It's so depressing to realize that I think you're both right, especially when adding in vertebraeically-challenged Graham preemptively calling Biden 'weak'.

It's going to be a long 4 years....
 
Why ?

A majority of GOP House representatives voted against certifying the results of the election. On that basis, the view that Joe Biden is not really the legitimate President (and therefore should be impeached, and convicted to remove him from power*) is the majority view within the Republican Party.

IOW, impeaching President Biden on day 1 would be the mainstream GOP view.

*- presumably followed by each Democratic President in turn until a Republican becomes President.

I know. This is so bloody crazy.

The bloody GOP has people lecturing the Democrats to not go forward with impeachment of Trump, and calling for "heal the nation" when the very same bloody party voted in the House that Biden was not really the president, and their conspiracy theory-believing supporters ran riot in the same building and had been provoked by the bloody ******* president of the United States. Who is not upholding their side of the bargain on this?
 
The Republicans need to keep being reminded that a wound can't heal whilst the knife is still in it.

When, and only when, every Republican member of Congress has publicly acknowledged that Biden is the legitimately elected POTUS can they start talking about moving on.
 
As I keep trying to get people to understand that Republicans are not unaware of their hypocrisy. It is not something they blundered into.

Their hypocrisy is intentional, a well thought part of their overall troll personas at this point.
 
It's probably worth specifically acknowledging that *some* Republicans have, in fact, acknowledged Biden's legitimacy, that he won fair and square, AND called for healing. I'm not going to bash them on that or refuse to acknowledge that. Generally, however, those ones are not screaming opposition to impeaching Trump by the look of it. It's the far, far too many that call for healing as nothing more than an inane objection to impeaching Trump while still pushing the divisive falsehoods that infested the wounds that they are also largely responsible for that deserve total scorn.

So the most healing we can expect is a weak and conditional simulacrum of the civil behavior that should have been the default in the first place. I suppose we can thank T**** for one thing: we're that much more accustomed to low expectations.
 
Finally, finally, fina - ******* - ly, Twitter has pulled the plug on him and now it seems he might actually lose his power, because the media who kept reporting his every outrageous tweet that they could not possibly ignore have been deprived of their crack supply and suddenly Trump disappears.
To be fair, the media is just an intermediary.
The crack consumers are we.
 

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