Split Thread A second impeachment

[Meadmaker]

There's also his surrogate, Rudy, talking about a "trial by combat."

What did Trump say? Do it strong? Do it strongly? We won't win by weakness? I'll be marching with you?

Don't know if that's enough, but hell, Charles Manson didn't kill anyone at Sharon Tate's house, but he was still convicted.

There's no way it's enough to get a conviction in a criminal trial, but an impeachment trial uses different standards than a criminal trial. The only standard in an impeachment trial is, "I think anyone who does that should be thrown out of office, now."

 

[Minoosh]

Did I misread a news bulletin on my phone? I thought it said, "What did Capitol rioters think would happen when they invaded Congress? Four more years."

I wasn't able to find that precise news story, but it's something I'm really curious about. What did they think would happen? Congress would just, what, change its mind? What was up with getting Pence? Hang him? Hold him hostage? Make him pardon Trump, and them, at gunpoint?

I think it would probably be OK for the House to vote to impeach, then just let the Senate do whatever it wants.

It seems to me there were conflicting plans for meeting up on Jan. 6 and that Trump took a lead role in setting the meeting place as The Ellipse. Some ex-military and current state-level politicians appeared to take a leadership role. I would like to know much, much more about what happened, but Trump vilified Pence, urged supporters to march to the Capitol and clearly indicated he wanted them to disrupt the formal proceedings to seal Biden's win. This is when he already knew that Congress, the people, the states, the judiciary and his own VP were going forward as required by law. I know that doesn't leave Bob the Coward satisfied, and he might even be right - it would be better to have more dots connected. But it's clear Trump wanted to interfere; he has done nothing but try to interfere for 2 months now. Body of work. This was his last gasp, and he knew no good could come of it.

 

[Minoosh]

And, paranoia here, but what if the Capitol fracas is designed to distract everyone from something bigger and more destructive?

 

[Meadmaker]

And, paranoia here, but what if the Capitol fracas is designed to distract everyone from something bigger and more destructive?

That's pretty paranoid.

When Trump does big, destructive, things, he doesn't want any distractions from them. He wants as much attention as possible.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Nancy Pelosi is hated by Republicans more than any Democrat, and probably more than all the others added together.

Her net worth is $120M.

If you can't see how she is the perfect embodiment of privileged elite, I don't know who would be. We used to call people like her "champagne Socialists" (now prosecco, I believe) and they serve no purpose other than to be a target for Conservatives to point out the hypocrisy of the left.

Trump's net worth is estimated at $2.5 billion, 20 times higher than Pelosi. So clearly he is even more the perfect embodiment of privileged elite, right?

But that's OK because Trump is a businessman, not a woman.

I bet she spends a hell of a lot on shoes.

I bet Trump spends a hell of a lot on shoes too.

Hmm, that doesn't sound right (even though it's probably true). I wonder why? Ah yes, that's right - only women get accused of 'spending a hell of a lot on shoes'.

So you used to call 'people like her' "champagne Socialists"? That is belittling her achievements. Her husband runs a real estate company which has made them quite wealthy, but she didn't get where she is today by privilege. She has worked very hard to get Democrats into a position to implement liberal polices, and championed many herself. But you probably wouldn't know about that because you can't get over the fact that she is a woman.

It's not hypocritical to be successful in business and yet want a system that helps those less fortunate than yourself. But Republicans are masters of projection. Nancy Pelosi is hated by Republicans more than any Democrat because she has pushed through 'socialist' policies that threaten their elite lifestyle of making a fortune off the backs of others while never giving anything in return - and of course because she is a woman.

 

[dirtywick]

two months he's been lying to people saying the election was stolen from him. in a speech immediately before they went down there and stormed the capitol, he named specific individuals responsible for it, eventually including mike pence, his own vp. he told his supporters they need to go fight for him. then he told them where to go.

it's absolutely ludicrous to say trump bears no responsibility for jan 6.

 

[dirtywick]

I bet Trump spends a hell of a lot on shoes too.

wonder who spends more on getting their hair done? because i know how much trump spends

 

[Stacyhs]

If there were more than days left, you'd have a point.

As this stage of the presidency, it looks spiteful.

No. It was at this stage of his presidency that he incited an insurrection.

Let's face it - the 70 million people who voted Trump aren't all insane lunatics, and I think an olive branch to them would play a lot better than punishing a bloke who's already been cut off from his communication systems, repudiated by his party and VP, and is now a very small step from being Alex Jones II.

The ones who repudiated Trump have already done so by not voting for him in the last election. The rioters at the Capitol don't want an olive branch. They've repudiated their party and their VP by calling for him to be hanged when they stormed the Capitol.

Take a look at Trump's approval rating. It will be under 30% once all the polls catch up with the attack on the Capitol. Some of the 10-15% support he's losing are there to be taken, and I don't believe impeachment will attract any of them.

Those who have repudiated the GOP have already done so and become Independents. Few, very few, have become Democrats. Most will still vote Republican, just not Trumplican.

What point is another impeachment other than a smug "Gotcha!"?

What point? That a president is not above the law. That he cannot incite a freaking insurrection against members of Congress and there are no consequences. I would think that would be obvious, but apparently not.

Nancy Pelosi is hated by Republicans more than any Democrat, and probably more than all the others added together.

Her net worth is $120M.

If you can't see how she is the perfect embodiment of privileged elite, I don't know who would be. We used to call people like her "champagne Socialists" (now prosecco, I believe) and they serve no purpose other than to be a target for Conservatives to point out the hypocrisy of the left.

Oh, the irony. Sweet, sweet irony. You want to talk about hypocrisy from the left? Let's talk hypocrisy. How many of those storming the Capitol will refuse to take their Social Security when they hit 65? Or their Medicare? Or tell the fire department "No, thanks!" when they show up when their house is burning to the ground?

I bet she spends a hell of a lot on shoes.

Again, sweet irony. Speaking of the "privileged elite" how much do Donnie "You're the greatest" and "I don't care, do you?" Melania spend on their shoes?

A huge swath of Trump votes were anti-establishment, anti-elite votes.

And yet they voted for a guy who was about as much establishment and elite as was possible.

Lots of the 70M who voted for Trump are actually decent people and would love to see a way out of the hole they've dug for themselves.

They could have done that by not voting for the guy 2 months ago who's been lying like a rug and acting like a lunatic for the last 5 years.

The traditional republicans will never change and need not be targeted.

It's that 10-15% of all voters who voted Trump but aren't die-hard Republicans. The moderate christians, the educated people, hard-working Latino families - people who despise the left. If you manage to convince even 1% of the voters that the Democratic Party is worth voting for, you've probably guaranteed the next election.

It may not work, but what's been lost if it doesn't?

If they "despise the left" and voted Trump then they aren't going to vote for the Democratic Party. Period. Get real.

More importantly, what's been gained from impeachment?

Establishing that the president is not above the law. Apparently, you don't think that is important.

 

[acbytesla]

If there were more than days left, you'd have a point.

As this stage of the presidency, it looks spiteful.

Let's face it - the 70 million people who voted Trump aren't all insane lunatics, and I think an olive branch to them would play a lot better than punishing a bloke who's already been cut off from his communication systems, repudiated by his party and VP, and is now a very small step from being Alex Jones II.

Take a look at Trump's approval rating. It will be under 30% once all the polls catch up with the attack on the Capitol. Some of the 10-15% support he's losing are there to be taken, and I don't believe impeachment will attract any of them.

What point is another impeachment other than a smug "Gotcha!"?



Nancy Pelosi is hated by Republicans more than any Democrat, and probably more than all the others added together.

Her net worth is $120M.

If you can't see how she is the perfect embodiment of privileged elite, I don't know who would be. We used to call people like her "champagne Socialists" (now prosecco, I believe) and they serve no purpose other than to be a target for Conservatives to point out the hypocrisy of the left.

I bet she spends a hell of a lot on shoes.



History & human nature.

A huge swath of Trump votes were anti-establishment, anti-elite votes. Lots of the 70M who voted for Trump are actually decent people and would love to see a way out of the hole they've dug for themselves.

Honey v vinegar.



The traditional republicans will never change and need not be targeted.

It's that 10-15% of all voters who voted Trump but aren't die-hard Republicans. The moderate christians, the educated people, hard-working Latino families - people who despise the left. If you manage to convince even 1% of the voters that the Democratic Party is worth voting for, you've probably guaranteed the next election.

It may not work, but what's been lost if it doesn't?

More importantly, what's been gained from impeachment?

Trump's net worth is estimated at $2.5 billion, 20 times higher than Pelosi. So clearly he is even more the perfect embodiment of privileged elite, right?

But that's OK because Trump is a businessman, not a woman.

I bet Trump spends a hell of a lot on shoes too.

Hmm, that doesn't sound right (even though it's probably true). I wonder why? Ah yes, that's right - only women get accused of 'spending a hell of a lot on shoes'.

So you used to call 'people like her' "champagne Socialists"? That is belittling her achievements. Her husband runs a real estate company which has made them quite wealthy, but she didn't get where she is today by privilege. She has worked very hard to get Democrats into a position to implement liberal polices, and championed many herself. But you probably wouldn't know about that because you can't get over the fact that she is a woman.

It's not hypocritical to be successful in business and yet want a system that helps those less fortunate than yourself. But Republicans are masters of projection. Nancy Pelosi is hated by Republicans more than any Democrat because she has pushed through 'socialist' policies that threaten their elite lifestyle of making a fortune off the backs of others while never giving anything in return - and of course because she is a woman.

Recently defeated Senator David Perdue is worth 5 times more than Pelosi. Loeffler is worth ten times Pelosi. Bet I could check the value of the current GOP Senators and find a dozen who are worth more than Pelosi. These people are insanely hypocritical.

Should be noted these same people mock the hell out of AOC for not having money,

 

[Aridas]

Trump's net worth is estimated at $2.5 billion, 20 times higher than Pelosi. So clearly he is even more the perfect embodiment of privileged elite, right?

But that's OK because Trump is a businessman, not a woman.

I bet Trump spends a hell of a lot on shoes too.

Hmm, that doesn't sound right (even though it's probably true). I wonder why? Ah yes, that's right - only women get accused of 'spending a hell of a lot on shoes'.

So you used to call 'people like her' "champagne Socialists"? That is belittling her achievements. Her husband runs a real estate company which has made them quite wealthy, but she didn't get where she is today by privilege. She has worked very hard to get Democrats into a position to implement liberal polices, and championed many herself. But you probably wouldn't know about that because you can't get over the fact that she is a woman.

It's not hypocritical to be successful in business and yet want a system that helps those less fortunate than yourself. But Republicans are masters of projection. Nancy Pelosi is hated by Republicans more than any Democrat because she has pushed through 'socialist' policies that threaten their elite lifestyle of making a fortune off the backs of others while never giving anything in return - and of course because she is a woman.

Just to poke at a couple things here...

The Atheist isn't of the US and isn't particularly supportive of Republicans, at last check. Nor do I think that there's much evidence that he's sexist. For that matter, it's honestly not hard to find things to be distinctly unhappy about when it comes to many of Pelosi's actions, for a variety of reasons, good or bad.

With that said, something that The Atheist doesn't seem to get is that because Nancy Pelosi is a major, effective Democrat leader, that's all the reason that many Republicans actually need to know to attack her. All the rest is pretty much opportunistic rationalization and far too frequently cannot be counted upon to actually be meaningful.

Yeah, the Republicans might be anti-elite, anti-establishment... but when that has extremely little to do with who they actually vote for, it really doesn't friggin' matter.

 

[The Atheist]

But that's OK because Trump is a businessman, not a woman.

When in doubt, play the misogyny card!

Well done. (Trump isn't a businessman's backside)

Recently defeated Senator David Perdue is worth 5 times more than Pelosi. Loeffler is worth ten times Pelosi. Bet I could check the value of the current GOP Senators and find a dozen who are worth more than Pelosi.

Do they claim to have socialist agendas?

 

[acbytesla]

Recently defeated Senator David Perdue is worth 5 times more than Pelosi. Loeffler is worth ten times Pelosi. Bet I could check the value of the current GOP Senators and find a dozen who are worth more than Pelosi.

Do they claim to have socialist agendas?

So that's it eh? Rich people aren't supposed to care about the 99 percenters?

 

[Mader Levap]

So that's it eh? Rich people aren't supposed to care about the 99 percenters?

They rarely do, so skepticism is understandable.

 

[JoeMorgue]

wonder who spends more on getting their hair done? because i know how much trump spends

Didn't a 30 thousand dollar toupee services get name checked when the NYT did that expose on his taxes?

 

[Stacyhs]

Randy Rainbow does it again:

 

[The Atheist]

So that's it eh? Rich people aren't supposed to care about the 99 percenters?

Apart from this correct response...

They rarely do, so skepticism is understandable.

... I've been a member of Labour/Socialist movements for 43 years.

So far, no rich person has ever done anything worth a damn for the poor.

Also, the 99% isn't the point of concern - it's the 40-50% on the bottom - the 49% above the 50% line need very little help.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Trump just announced if he is impeached a second time, Rudy Giuliani will be his attorney.
Now I really hope it happens just for the entertainment value.

...does Donny WANT to get convicted?? He really is insane.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Apart from this correct response...



... I've been a member of Labour/Socialist movements for 43 years.

So far, no rich person has ever done anything worth a damn for the poor.

Also, the 99% isn't the point of concern - it's the 40-50% on the bottom - the 49% above the 50% line need very little help.

What does any of this have to do with impeaching Trump?

So what "Evil centrist American Democrats (who let me remind you would be on the Right in any other country. Have I mentioned that enough)" just don't get to impeach Trump because they are Left enough for you?

What are you on about?

I wish the "Screw it all I don't want anything to get better because so my of my self-identity is defined by nay-saying and doom-glooming " sub-groups of both parties would **** off at the highest possible speed in the nearest convienant direction.

 

[Paul2]

They rarely do, so skepticism is understandable.

Citation? Statistics? It would be good to know exactly how rare. Or is it just anecdotal evidence?

 

[The Atheist]

The Atheist isn't of the US and isn't particularly supportive of Republicans, at last check. Nor do I think that there's much evidence that he's sexist. For that matter, it's honestly not hard to find things to be distinctly unhappy about when it comes to many of Pelosi's actions, for a variety of reasons, good or bad.

Well said.

For the record, my major dislike of Pelosi is down to distaste of her among American hard-left Socialists and Progressives I know. The fact that she claims to be devoutly religious doesn't make me like her much either.

The US politician I admire by far the most is AOC. I just hope she doesn't get tainted with lies and ties to Wall St like Nancy has.