A letter and appeal on Climate Change

[six7s]

re op

tl:dr

This sort of response is far too short to add anything of meaning to the discussion!



























If you want to be taken seriously, try adding a semi-colon

 

[Hallo Alfie]

this sort of response is far too short to add anything of meaning to the discussion!


If you want to be taken seriously, try adding a semi-colon

:

 

[mhaze]

Hmmmm...I wonder what goodies we are going to see? Especially in the light of what we saw in the very brief snapshot that was Climategate...I just wonder what goodies lie waiting to be exposed to the light of day?

I guess at the end of the day it doesnt really matter as those who believe Mann is the sole cause of global warming will just bury their heads even deeper in to the sand!

Mailman

It's speculation but I assume the question would be something like this.

A. Mann states in a grant application that there is no doubt the 20th century is the hottest on record and the last decade the hottest <blah blah blah> standard warmer propaganda.

B. In email talking honestly he is more reserved and questions to what extent we know for sure what we know.

"A", used to snare monies, now is proved to be a serious mis statement by "B". Basically he'd be caught in a LIE.

 

[CapelDodger]

It's speculation but I assume the question would be something like this.

A. Mann states in a grant application that there is no doubt the 20th century is the hottest on record and the last decade the hottest <blah blah blah> standard warmer propaganda.

That's not a question, it's a statement. Do you have any evidence for it?

B. In email talking honestly he is more reserved and questions to what extent we know for sure what we know.

Again, any evidence for such a discrepancy? Perhaps a quote from a relevant email?

"A", used to snare monies, now is proved to be a serious mis statement by "B". Basically he'd be caught in a LIE.

Were your statements valid this would be a reasonable conclusion. You'll forgive me for doubting their validity, given the source.

 

[mhaze]

That's not a question, it's a statement. Do you have any evidence for it?



Again, any evidence for such a discrepancy? Perhaps a quote from a relevant email?



Were your statements valid this would be a reasonable conclusion. You'll forgive me for doubting their validity, given the source.

Off track. It's not for me to provide you evidence and it is irrelevant what you think, or what your opinion is. It's also irrelevant what mine is.

It's a matter being handled by the Attorney General, an active investigation.

 

[uke2se]

Off track. It's not for me to provide you evidence and it is irrelevant what you think, or what your opinion is. It's also irrelevant what mine is.

It's a matter being handled by the Attorney General, an active investigation.

The Attorney General? Eric Holder? Or are you talking about a state attorney general that is also an AGW denialist?

As we both know it's the latter, this lie by omission on your part will be quoted in the "Lies" thread.

 

[CapelDodger]

Off track. It's not for me to provide you evidence and it is irrelevant what you think, or what your opinion is. It's also irrelevant what mine is.

It's not a matter of opinion that you defined "the question" as being two statements by yourself (two statements do not make a question), neither of which you can substantiate anyway.

It's a matter being handled by the Attorney General, an active investigation.

The Attorney General of Virginia. As if anybody's surprised, or expects him to ever terminate the investigation during his elected term. "No smoke without fire" may work for you (except when you don't want there to be a fire) but it doesn't work for normal folk.

 

[bit_pattern]

Even WaPo is calling this anti academic witchhunt a travesty, which is really saying something considering their usually reflexive denialist position

U-Va. should fight Cuccinelli's faulty investigation of Michael Mann

 

[Gaspode]

Some posts moved to AAH.

Remember to address the argument, not the the arguer.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode

 

[mhaze]

Even WaPo is calling this anti academic witchhunt a travesty, which is really saying something considering their usually reflexive denialist position

U-Va. should fight Cuccinelli's faulty investigation of Michael Mann

I can see how that position could be possible. But since I don't know the facts, and since whatever I or you said would have no influence on that active investigation, what is the point of assigning perjorative terms to it?

Say by way of comparison the Duke LaCross players rape incident, where the DA was clearly at fault. Evidence emerged early on that there was no crime. Is there some obvious issue of "no crime" here?

Would you exclude research bids for state money from criminal fraud investigations?

(I can see some possible merit in that, but also some bad effects).

 

[mhaze]

Hmmm....

No answers about excluding climate sciency types from criminal fraud investigation?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

In other words:
sure they would (exclude); scientists - especially climate scientists - are so near to divinity and infallibility, that no investigation is warranted as nothing would/could ever be uncovered, as there is nothing there.

 

[mailman]

Yes, it does seem like a concerted effort to deligitimise the investigation by the Mann Made Global Warming (tm) believers is going on.

Surely if they are so confident about the belief that they have nothing to fear from this investigation?

OR...is there something they are afraid of being uncovered that would be even more damning than that small snapshot provided by the CRU leak of how badly behaved climate scientists can be in protecting their holy grail?

Mailman

 

[uke2se]

Yes, it does seem like a concerted effort to deligitimise the investigation by the Mann Made Global Warming (tm) believers is going on.

Surely if they are so confident about the belief that they have nothing to fear from this investigation?

OR...is there something they are afraid of being uncovered that would be even more damning than that small snapshot provided by the CRU leak of how badly behaved climate scientists can be in protecting their holy grail?

Mailman

Or, it could be that the contant attacks on scientists by the anti-science brigade is getting tiresome. There's work to be done. Climatologists don't have time to fight a rear-guard action against anti-science mobs like you and this Virginia AG.

Thankfully there's not many of you, however loud you are, and you are fighting a losing battle, which is clear by the desperate actions taken by denialists after "climategate" blew up in your faces.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Umm, two questions:
What "desperate actions" "after Climategate" and
How did it blow up in anyones faces?

 

[mailman]

Or, it could be that the contant attacks on scientists by the anti-science brigade is getting tiresome. There's work to be done. Climatologists don't have time to fight a rear-guard action against anti-science mobs like you and this Virginia AG.

Always the name calling...anyone who opposes Mann Made Global Warming (tm) are anti-science yet Im pretty sure that people like McIntyre's only interest is in seeing the science being done right. Yet time and time again, McIntyre has had to fight to get data from so called climate scientists released to him...and when it is its pulled apart without mercy.

Having said that, I can see why people like Jones dont like releasing data to people like McIntyre, because every time they do, their sloppy science is exposed time and time again.

Thankfully there's not many of you, however loud you are, and you are fighting a losing battle, which is clear by the desperate actions taken by denialists after "climategate" blew up in your faces.

Ah, the confidence of arrogance. How enlightening. Although Im pretty sure the desperation you can feel isnt coming from those skeptical of mans involvement in global warming (tm)

Regards

Mailman

 

[uke2se]

Always the name calling...anyone who opposes Mann Made Global Warming (tm) are anti-science

Not at all. I oppose man-made global warming (the extra 'n' isn't very clever by the way). I firmly oppose it. I say we should do something about it. You, however, don't want us to do anything about it because you believe there's a conspiracy among scientists to raise your taxes or some **** like that. It's pretty hilarious, but it does get in the way of the whole "doing something about it" that needs to happen soon.

yet Im pretty sure that people like McIntyre's only interest is in seeing the science being done right.

I'm not so sure about that at all. McIntyre is a prospector type. He's in Big Oil's pocket, as is evident by his background and the way he acts. Once all the inquiries into CRU are in I'd like to see him sued for libel.

Yet time and time again, McIntyre has had to fight to get data from so called climate scientists released to him...and when it is its pulled apart without mercy.

Sorry, but that's a lie. McIntyre did file an extraordinary amount of FOI requests for data. He even asked his flock on his blog to do the same, just alter the area for the data and send it in. It'll tie up some time for those guys over at CRU. The problem was that he already had all the data CRU could lawfully provide him with. It was public for a long time before the FOI requests started. The only data he couldn't get was the raw data which wasn't owned by CRU and which he could get by paying the people who collected the data instead. But McIntyre was dead set on obstructing scientific process, so he filed his FOI requests.

You know, you should really read the whole story and not just what your denialist blogs tell you.

Having said that, I can see why people like Jones dont like releasing data to people like McIntyre, because every time they do, their sloppy science is exposed time and time again.

Sorry, gonna have to call lie there again. McIntyre has provided one small contribution to climate science. It was fairly minor, but nevertheless, his contribution was accepted by the climatologists. Since then, he has been wrong time and time again.

Ah, the confidence of arrogance. How enlightening. Although Im pretty sure the desperation you can feel isnt coming from those skeptical of mans involvement in global warming (tm)

Yes, I'm pretty sure it is. Denialists are crawling out of the woodwork after the emails they stole proved to be nothing to talk about. You guys act like you're drowning when you can't deal with the science. You jabber on about talking-points that were debunked years ago, some times even centuries. It's fun to watch from a purely anthropological standpoint. From a climate scientific standpoint it's getting old fast.

 

[mhaze]

In other words:
sure they would (exclude); scientists - especially climate scientists - are so near to divinity and infallibility, that no investigation is warranted as nothing would/could ever be uncovered, as there is nothing there.

Well, everyone knows that some investigations by DA's are politically motivated.

Like those on the other side's politicians. But nobody suggests that criminal investigations into politicians should be stopped.

Now we have some people (apparently) asserting that criminal investigations into climate scientists should be stopped.

I'd just like to know more about this curious concept.

 

[uke2se]

Now we have some people (apparently) asserting that criminal investigations into climate scientists should be stopped.

I'd like to see you quote any of use asserting that. Do it or retract.

 

[mailman]

I'm not so sure about that at all. McIntyre is a prospector type. He's in Big Oil's pocket, as is evident by his background and the way he acts. Once all the inquiries into CRU are in I'd like to see him sued for libel.

Oh, McIntyre is in the pocket of Big Oil (tm). BWAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHA By his background, I guess you mean when he worked for some prospecting company...what 20, 30 years ago?

But ask yourself this. Who stands to make more from Mann Made Global warming (tm)? Al Gore (slated to become the worlds first carbon BILLIONAIRE) or Steve McIntyre who most certainly will not be making Billions from Mann Made Global Warming?

McIntyre did file an extraordinary amount of FOI requests for data.

Perhaps if Jones or Biffa had released the requested data the first time (what, 10 years ago?), then McIntyre wouldnt have had to send in a few FOI requests (remembering a number of emails from Jones around HIDING data from McIntyre et al)?

Dont forget that the FOI office also found that CRU had been sadly wanting in how it managed FOI requests and only through an act of sheer good luck did no criminal or civil proceedings come out of this (because of the rediculously short period of time in the FOI act for dealing with complaints).

The problem was that he already had all the data CRU could lawfully provide him with.

What he was after was the meta data, which was removed from what limited data had been released by CRU over the course of the very many years he had been chasing them. In fact, it wasnt until one of those learned scientific journals actually ENFORCED their data archiving policy that McIntyre finally got a look in to how so called climate scientists had been "fixing" its data.

But McIntyre was dead set on obstructing scientific process, so he filed his FOI requests.

Ah...the contortions to justify the lack of transparency in climate science. Isnt it amazing. From what I can see, the problem you have with McIntyre is that everytime he gets his hands on the climate data used by Jones et al he pulls it apart and highlights time and time again just how hollow the ground is for Mann Made Global Warming (tm).

You know, you should really read the whole story and not just what your denialist blogs tell you.

Yes you should read the whole story.

Since then, he has been wrong time and time again.

Merely your opinion, which Im sure you could back up if you had anything to go on (other than your own opinion that is).

Yes, I'm pretty sure it is. Denialists are crawling out of the woodwork after the emails they stole

Stolen? Unless you have access to something no one else does...prove they were stolen.

You see, this is yet another example of the continued attempts at deligitimising those who would dare to challenge Mann Made Global Warming (tm).

It all adds up really. The name calling, ranting about "stolen emails", liberlous staments (that x worked for big oil)...really all a very sad attempt at silencing those who are skeptical around your religions foundations.

Yep, sad indeed.

Mailman