A definition of free will

[Complexity]

Again, I say that when telling something is wrong you need to say why it is wrong to remain credible instead of trying to use ridicule as a bullying smokescreen.

After a while, when a person has shown that he will not learn and will not change, there is no reason to spend time on him except for pleasure and for the civic duty of putting up warning signs around him urging others to watch where they step.

I owe you nothing.

 

[Paulhoff]

You are thinking of it as if people are victims of the universal creation. That's a false view. People ARE the universal creation in action. One could say that we don't have any other choice than to have free will.

Do you have any idea of what the word "IF" means.

Paul

 

[Anders Lindman]

Why don't you start a thread on this in the conspiracy forum and leave all of this conspiracy nonsense out of this thread?

I have already written about something similar in another thread. So it would basically just be a rehash of the relativity hoax conspiracy theory. But you are correct that this thread is not about conspiracy theories.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Do you have any idea of what the word "IF" means.

Paul

Of course. The word if means confusion.

 

[Complexity]

Hmm... what a bunch of hooey.

As far as I can tell, life is not a mathematical equation. Math and logic are tools used by humans, not things which define or confine us. Once you start down this path, it's like you're using a yardstick to measure the weight of an hour.

It merely does not apply. It can only apply if the mind is exactly like a computer, which it is not.

0111010110001110000101011101011111111101 does not compute in this brain.

Free will is a thing which is empirically seen. You do make choices, and there is often uncertainty for a period before that choice is made. It's up to you to prove that this is an illusion if you want to prove determinism. I have yet to see any evidence. You should probably start by accurately predicting a person's behavior in a complex environment with various not-so-overwhelming sources of stimulation and nearly infinite paths of possible divergence (in other words, the boring, everyday world of humdrum). Good luck with that.

Admittedly, you can predict a specifically conditioned person's behavior in tightly controlled circumstances with specific, limited options -- but that's not the world we live in.

--It's not the world I live in, anyway--

You have a strong illusion of free will, but that is all it is - an illusion.

Free will is not seen empirically - there is absolutely no evidence for it, and it is not consistent with what we know about how reality works.

 

[Paulhoff]

So it would basically just be a rehash of the relativity hoax conspiracy theory.

So a theory works time and time again, and you call it a hoax. No that would be that you don't understand something and are too lazy to learn how it works.

By the way, when designing CRT's "The cathode ray tube" they use relativity because the eletrons gain a little mass at the speed they travel inside the CRT.

Paul

 

[Paulhoff]

Of course. The word if means confusion.

if(

f)
conj. 1. a. In the event that: If I were to go, I would be late.
b. Granting that: If that is true, what should we do?
c. On the condition that: She will play the piano only if she is paid.

2. Although possibly; even though: It is a handsome if useless trinket.
3. Whether: Ask if he plans to come to the meeting.
4. Used to introduce an exclamatory clause, indicating a wish: If they had only come earlier!

n. A possibility, condition, or stipulation: There will be no ifs, ands, or buts in this matter.

It seems you are the one confused.

Paul

 

[Complexity]

I have already written about something similar in another thread. So it would basically just be a rehash of the relativity hoax conspiracy theory. But you are correct that this thread is not about conspiracy theories.

So stop it. Your speculations are off-topic and inane.

I never read stuff in the conspiracy forum, which is why I suggested that you write about it there.

 

[Anders Lindman]

if([qimg]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif[/qimg]f)
conj. 1. a. In the event that: If I were to go, I would be late.
b. Granting that: If that is true, what should we do?
c. On the condition that: She will play the piano only if she is paid.

2. Although possibly; even though: It is a handsome if useless trinket.
3. Whether: Ask if he plans to come to the meeting.
4. Used to introduce an exclamatory clause, indicating a wish: If they had only come earlier!

n. A possibility, condition, or stipulation: There will be no ifs, ands, or buts in this matter.

It seems you are the one confused.

Paul

Look at all those definitions you posted. They are all about uncertainty at their root, which means confusion.

 

[Paulhoff]

Look at all those definitions you posted. They are all about uncertainty at their root, which means confusion.

Every word is that way, daaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Paul



He is back on my ignore list of one again, I tried, but he isn't worth it.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Every word is that way, daaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Paul



He is back on my ignore list of once again, I tried, but he isn't worth it.

The word yes for example has no uncertainty in it itself. In fact, most words are about certainty and any uncertainty is something added. The word if on the other hand is inherently about uncertainty. There may be cases where the word if is not related to any uncertainty, but usually it means uncertainty.

Nothing is uncertain in reality. Uncertainty is an illusion. The future is not uncertain. The future exists as projections.

 

[Complexity]

Every word is that way, daaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Paul



He is back on my ignore list of one again, I tried, but he isn't worth it.

I think you're right. I can't imagine anything to be gained by continuing to interact with him. Even mockery looses its zing after a while.

 

[Paulhoff]

I think you're right. I can't imagine anything to be gained by continuing to interact with him. Even mockery looses its zing after a while.

He shows no free-will at all. He is a determinist.

Paul

 

[Craig4]

That sounds suspicious. Only one year before he died. If this was the conspiracy section I would say that he either was forced to do it, or that the article is a fake smokescreen, and that he was murdered in 2009.

Can you prove he was forced to do anything?

 

[Anders Lindman]

Can you prove he was forced to do anything?

Off topic. As we have already discussed. See for example: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7858991&postcount=228

 

[Craig4]

Off topic. As we have already discussed. See for example: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7858991&postcount=228

Yes, I saw. That's why I asked the question. Your previous posts are unsatisfactory.

 

[Belz...]

Is there such a thing as free will?

No.

 

[Anders Lindman]

No.

If we by free will mean that a person is able to change the course of the universe, then I agree. Another question is if will can be more or less free, that the will can be gradual on a scale from totally not free to totally free. And what would that mean?

 

[westprog]

Why not?

Knowledge of what choice will be made does not, necessarily, limit the possibility of a different choice, any more than knowing after the choice has been made means that the choice was not a real one.

Free will implies the possibility of different possible post-conditions from a single pre-condition. In an entirely deterministic universe, that is not possible. Any pre-condition will lead to only a single possible post-condition. However, that does not appear to be the kind of universe that we live in. Free will is not physically impossible.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Maybe true free will is to be able to take different paths into the future. I don't think that's possible since the universe seems to be one whole universal quantum state, and if one person can take different paths into the future then it means that the universe splits into several branches, and I can't see how everybody can split the universe like that. Maybe it's possible with some kind of superposition of separate wills.

Anyway, choice is confusion, so that kind of free will sounds inferior to my definition where the path into the future is co-created in the moment and the result of the combined co-creation of all participants creates the path into the future.