911 Facts Consolidated

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Robrob said:
Considering there are more videos of the second crash than of the first crash (for obvious reasons), your point would be...?
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Psst: he doesn't have one! He's just trying to keep the ball rolling!

Clayton Moore said:
It means where the hell are all the videos taken by cell phones? No videos no planes.
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Moving the goalposts. You asked where the videos were, not the cell phone videos.

Clayton Moore said:
FTFM

It means where the hell are all the videos taken by video cameras? No videos no planes.
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And now you're backpedalling.



 
Clayton Moore said:
FTFM

It means where the hell are all the videos taken by video cameras? No videos no planes.
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Please don't tell me you have no idea that there exist countless videos of the second plane, and that there is NO reason for there to be many of the first plane at all.

Nobody is that clueless
 
twinstead said:
Please don't tell me you have no idea that there exist countless videos of the second plane, and that there is NO reason for there to be many of the first plane at all.

Nobody is that clueless
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It appears that 'somebody' is. ;)
 
Jim_MDP said:
The ATCC page is referring to a video game. Though I liked this part...



... as I actually did this once IRL returning to SQL with no Rx. Ahh, good times.

:D
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For 911 truth video games, simulations, and fantasy are reality. That was the worse part. Clayton has no clue his web site of "facts" is based on nonsense and failure of the author, in many areas. This case, reading comprehension.
 
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beachnut said:
... it gets worse.


How do they know the private pilots off course without a flight plan are off course??? The web site is perfect for Clayton.
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Considering private pilots can (and do) not file flight plans, not follow flight plans or even manually switch off their transponders in order to conduct illegal activities - and never get shot down by two F-18's, you have to wonder what fantasy world these people live in?
 
First you ask this:
Clayton Moore said:
ahahahhaha

Where are all the videos of the second tower plane? The whole world was tuned into the towers. Where did the black boxes go?
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,,,and since its really unclear what the H you are referring to you get asked by several people:

twinstead said:
What does "where are all the videos of the second tower plane?" even mean?
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Your only reply is:
Clayton Moore said:
It means where the hell are all the videos taken by cell phones? No videos no planes.
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To which you are informed of the complete lack of video capable phones in 2001, and you back pedal, revise it to:
Clayton Moore said:
FTFM

It means where the hell are all the videos taken by video cameras? No videos no planes.
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So, a few points Clayton.

First of all you have not specified what you meant by "videos of the second tower plane". This is really important since if you refer to tower 2(south) or the second aircraft impact, there are actually quite a few videos taken by video cameras of that event.

So first you may want to answer the question as to what the H you are talking about.

If by some really odd machinations with the English language you are referring to the first aircraft impact to tower 1(north) then you'd be correct, only one such video of that event.

Given however that there were NO video capable cell phones in 2001 we already know that there would be very few people on the street with the capability to capture that event. Yes there were quite a few small video cameras available then but one would first have to hear the sound of the approaching aircraft, immediately decide to video it, take the camera out, turn it on, locate the source of that sound and point and shoot.
So quite obviously only persons who already had their cameras out and turned on will stand much of a chance to capture this event. Its not even mid-morning yet so the number of tourists about will be relatively small at this hour and we can safely assume that Manhattanites rarely walk about with their cameras on and ready at all times.

With the actual second event of course there are a myriad of news cameras pointed directly at the twin towers as the north tower burns. Quite to be expected. There would also be a fair number of amateur cameras pointed that way but as far as quality goes (quality of video as well as quality of framing and shot steadiness) its those professionals who's videos will be the best.

As for the black boxes, these are designed to withstand certain conditions. Given that the collapses were powerful enough to snap large structural steel members and that the collapsing buildings were akin to 110 storey rock crushers its not surprising that any object not light enough to be ejected by the expelling of air from the collapsing floors would be bashed and torn asunder until it is unrecognizable. Given also that these boxes would have first been subject to impact with the building and then subject to an hour long fire before being subject to the 110 storey rock crusher, and then possibly subject to fires within the debris pile for days or weeks,,,, tell me gain why you so enthusiastically expect them to have survived in recognizable parts let alone in usable condition..???
Any more questions?
 
I came here for facts. Am I to understand Clayton will not be presenting any facts?
 
jaydeehess said:
If by some really odd machinations with the English language you are referring to the first aircraft impact to tower 1(north) then you'd be correct, only one such video of that event.
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Actually, there were at least two others: the WNYW video that had clear audio and the tourist video who was in a car driving into a tunnel and whose name was Pavel Hlava.

eta: here is what mangoose posted a couple of years ago:

1. Jules Naudet (+ audio, + video)
2. Pavel Hlava (- audio, + video)
3. Wolfgang Staehle (- audio, + video, streamed realtime as still images)
4. Dick Oliver/WNYW crew (+ audio, - video)
5. Ginny Carr (+ audio, - video)
 
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Well, I don't know about you folks, but I for one find it suspicious that more cameras weren't trained on the WTC when the first plane hit that morning.
 
Robrob said:
Considering private pilots can (and do) not file flight plans, not follow flight plans or even manually switch off their transponders in order to conduct illegal activities - and never get shot down by two F-18's, you have to wonder what fantasy world these people live in?
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The silly web site used a ATC simulation software instructions as source for intercepts.

It is true if you file or don't file a flight plan and fly off the coast of the US and then come back through the ADIZ unannouced, you may get intercepted and asked to land by a fighter; this is true before and after 911. But if you are flying as you say, out an about over the USA, you would not get anyone to care about your inabity to follow your flight plan, or wonder around aimlessly. Unless you hit certain airspace and someone was watching (RADAR, etc.). Then they would have to come get you later, and investigate; no intercept would be expected of the USA before 911, unless you were lost for an hour, or hours breaking a lot of rules.

It was funny the web site cherry picks quotes from instructions for a software ATC simulator. The instructions also have this disclaimer, making Clayton's Facts Thread fail bigger, faster, etc.

The Read Binder is updated at the beginning of the month. All information is for use with Xavius Software's Air Traffic Control Center[SIZE=-2]TM[/SIZE] only, is the opinion of the author(s), and does not necessarily reflect the policies or practices of the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration or Federal Aviation Service. Send your questions or comments to support@xavius.com and we'll be glad to help!
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A web site filled with opinions, based on opinions. Clayton has hard opinions, no hard facts.

Yes Tony, advances in batteries will make an "electric car come back" from the past. Jay Leno has a 1909 electric car with the original battery. But nothing will make your realcddeal come true. Our great-granddads had electric cars, and our great-grands could have hydrogen cars, who knows?
 
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000063 said:
Psst: he doesn't have one! He's just trying to keep the ball rolling!



Moving the goalposts. You asked where the videos were, not the cell phone videos.



And now you're backpedalling.

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Guy on the scene says I didn't see the plain come in I just heard an explosion.
 
000063 said:
Psst: he doesn't have one! He's just trying to keep the ball rolling!



Moving the goalposts. You asked where the videos were, not the cell phone videos.



And now you're backpedalling.



Click to expand...


Awfully dark videos for such a bright shiny day.
 
jaydeehess said:
First you ask this:

,,,and since its really unclear what the H you are referring to you get asked by several people:


Your only reply is:

To which you are informed of the complete lack of video capable phones in 2001, and you back pedal, revise it to:


So, a few points Clayton.

First of all you have not specified what you meant by "videos of the second tower plane". This is really important since if you refer to tower 2(south) or the second aircraft impact, there are actually quite a few videos taken by video cameras of that event.

So first you may want to answer the question as to what the H you are talking about.

If by some really odd machinations with the English language you are referring to the first aircraft impact to tower 1(north) then you'd be correct, only one such video of that event.

Given however that there were NO video capable cell phones in 2001 we already know that there would be very few people on the street with the capability to capture that event. Yes there were quite a few small video cameras available then but one would first have to hear the sound of the approaching aircraft, immediately decide to video it, take the camera out, turn it on, locate the source of that sound and point and shoot.
So quite obviously only persons who already had their cameras out and turned on will stand much of a chance to capture this event. Its not even mid-morning yet so the number of tourists about will be relatively small at this hour and we can safely assume that Manhattanites rarely walk about with their cameras on and ready at all times.

With the actual second event of course there are a myriad of news cameras pointed directly at the twin towers as the north tower burns. Quite to be expected. There would also be a fair number of amateur cameras pointed that way but as far as quality goes (quality of video as well as quality of framing and shot steadiness) its those professionals who's videos will be the best.

As for the black boxes, these are designed to withstand certain conditions. Given that the collapses were powerful enough to snap large structural steel members and that the collapsing buildings were akin to 110 storey rock crushers its not surprising that any object not light enough to be ejected by the expelling of air from the collapsing floors would be bashed and torn asunder until it is unrecognizable. Given also that these boxes would have first been subject to impact with the building and then subject to an hour long fire before being subject to the 110 storey rock crusher, and then possibly subject to fires within the debris pile for days or weeks,,,, tell me gain why you so enthusiastically expect them to have survived in recognizable parts let alone in usable condition..???
Any more questions?
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Thanks for the fairy tale.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Thanks for the fairy tale.
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please list those points in my post which you take issue with

lack of cell phones that take video?

time it would take to turn on and shoot with a camera?

the number of cameras that could be expected on a Sept morning in2001?

I do admit my mistake concerning the number of videos of the first tower hit

or perhaps you take issue with my pointing out your lack of reading comprehension and idiotically asking about cell phone videos and are just pouting
 
Reactor drone said:
So you don't think that's an untruth? You think every government official who has appeared in a news telecast, made a speech, announced a policy or made a public appearance since september 11, 2001 has told everyone that "9/11 is the seminal event of our generation." ?
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore
Quote:
That is what we've been told seemingly every day on virtually every news telecast, every speech, every statement, every policy announcement, every public appearance by every government official since September 11, 2001.
 
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