Wow, that's brilliant parody! I thought the Truth Movement was, overall, self-selectively comprised of the least creative individuals on the planet. But this... this changes everything!
For example, note the innovative use of negatives to cleverly subvert the meaning of the original...
...to reveal the ironically opposite meaning that was implicit the whole time (since it's well known that all statements inevitably suggest their own negation; that is to say, it isn't and they don't.):
Weird Al Yancovic must be kicking himself that for all his parodic accomplishments, he overlooked that simple and devastating technique.
The only fly in this ointment is... I doubt that the actual Bee Gee's can be credited for this new version. While I acknowledge that inspiration can strike anywhere, it is statistically unlikely for the Bee Gee's to have suddenly and uncharacteristically revealed genius of that magnitude. So, in keeping with the thread topic, I must inquire: which Hollywood celebrity was the true mastermind of the piece?
I only ask because I would wish to caution that individual to be careful in the future application of his or her remarkable gift, even for the most laudable of causes. It is not clear that civilization itself could survive the magnitude of upheaval that must result from self-examination that profound. To offer one frightening example, from the tip of the truly terrifying iceberg:
Jingle bells, jingle bells,
Jingle not all the way,
Oh what fun it isn't to ride
In a zero-or-two-or-more-horse open sleigh...
Please, in the name of all that is holy, use that power wisely!
Haha, nice rant, Myriad. Of course you were aware that your own crowd, the "debunking movement", is the least creative bunch ever. That guy Chris Mohr now managed for the first time to put your position into an adult and half-way respectable form without resorting to 4chan retardation with LOLcatz and buckets full of Gravy (good work, Chris). And even that is far from creative, although it does its job, it's just less neurotic. In 2011. No surprise you're a little pissed at that.
I haven't watched the video, but I doubt Senator Franken is a "twoofer." He was certainly, and still is, critical of the Bush Administration, but I never heard him say anything about believing that they were somehow involved in 9/11.
If someone points to a link I will be glad to look it over, as long as it isn't a video.
In the meantime, as one of his constituents, I will send him a letter asking for him to comment.
Franken is only in that video to say how mean and nasty Bill O'Reilly was for picking on that son of a 9/11 victim (Jeremy Glick?). Actually, that exchange was one of the most entertaining parts of the video.
Actors, however, have absolutely no relevant knowledge or experience specific to determining whether the 9/11 conspiracy theories are true by virtue of their being actors.
Your bolding, but very much my point. 'Being an actor' adds nothing - but 'being an actor' doesn't preclude adding something. I can't, off the top of my head, think of an actor with a PhD in anything (unless you count my brother, but he hasn't trod the boards for years and you wouldn't know him from Adam), but that hairy guitarist out of Queen is a knowledgeable astrophysicist. Unless they nodded through his doctorate because they liked Seven Seas of Rye? Surely not...
A group of actors who happen to agree with him, however, don't warrant any such examination, particularly as everything they claim has already been shown to be as worthless as Gage's second-hand lies.
I know only too well how partisan discussions in this subforum can become, but I was never saying that any of those actors had anything of value to contribute to the matter at hand. Far from it. I was, however, taking issue with dismissal of the opinions of actors, of out hand, as though they knew nothing beyond mindlessly repeating lines written for them and remembering not to look at the camera. Acting is rarely, in and of itself, intellectually taxing, but it isn't solely undertaken by idiots either.
I think that the issue being taken isn't so much about whether or not they are capable of having an opinion (although for a few of them their thought processes are obviously flawed) but that they (or others) are using their fame earned in a completely unrelated field (acting) as a bully pulpit for something that at best their opinion is worth no more than any average Joe off of the street.
I hold the same opinion for actors and politics. If you are qualified to hold the office then run for it and use your fame that way. Actually stand there and field questions (and not just the softball ones from people who you know already agree with you). Otherwise your opinion is no different than mine.
Then, if any of them chooses to add something by offering a clear, evidence-based line of argument, rather than rehashing the same old lies, they'll be worth listening to. However, at the moment, the argument on offer is "Here's a bunch of famous people who believe something, therefore you should believe it too." That line of argument is worthless without support from evidence.
And, in fact, in attracting attention to themselves by repeating 9/11 conspiracy theories that they clearly don't understand, these particular actors are conforming very nicely to the stereotype of "mindlessly repeating lines written for them and remembering not to look at the camera". If they want to be taken seriously, as intelligent people with noteworthy opinions, they're not doing themselves any favours.
Franken is only in that video to say how mean and nasty Bill O'Reilly was for picking on that son of a 9/11 victim (Jeremy Glick?). Actually, that exchange was one of the most entertaining parts of the video.
I'm willing to bet that Franken said something about the state of affairs within our intelligence agencies before 9/11 and/or about people playing CYA after 9/11 (something pretty much everyone agrees with to some degree) and cherry picked the hell out of it to try and make it sound like he was a truther. The guy had a radio show to fill every day for years and he didn't like Bush at all so there's bound to be plenty of sound bites to cherry pick from.
All it takes for a truther to claim that you agree with them to to express doubts about any part of the 9/11 narrative. If you say that you don't think the Bush Admin was totally upfront about the pre-911 intelligence (meaning not LIHOP but laxness or error on handling the intel) then like magic, POOF, you're a truther even if you think the truther version of events is idiotic...
All it takes for a truther to claim that you agree with them to to express doubts about any part of the 9/11 narrative. If you say that you don't think the Bush Admin was totally upfront about the pre-911 intelligence (meaning not LIHOP but laxness or error on handling the intel) then like magic, POOF, you're a truther even if you think the truther version of events is idiotic...
The flip side of that is that if you don't think 9/11 was an inside job truthers automatically assume you must have supported Bush and the Iraq war or you're a neo-con shill or a "media-controlled worm" (that last one was actually leveled at me by a demented truther chick) no matter what your actual political views.
Then, if any of them chooses to add something by offering a clear, evidence-based line of argument, rather than rehashing the same old lies, they'll be worth listening to. [...] And, in fact, in attracting attention to themselves by repeating 9/11 conspiracy theories that they clearly don't understand, these particular actors are conforming very nicely to the stereotype of "mindlessly repeating lines written for them and remembering not to look at the camera". If they want to be taken seriously, as intelligent people with noteworthy opinions, they're not doing themselves any favours.
I know only too well how partisan discussions in this subforum can become, but I was never saying that any of those actors had anything of value to contribute to the matter at hand. Far from it.
Walter I'm sorry but that video doesn't do much to make me think he's opposed to 9/11 truth. Honestly he seems to be a bit in favor of it. And believe me it hurts me like you don't know to think that George would be a truther. But he never trusted a word the government said.
I think 9/11 truth never really made it to his radar and if he spent 5 minutes looking into it he'd see how ridiculous they all are. But he's gone now and either we'll never know or something more conclusive will turn up.
Also I see my man Joe Rogan made the list. He's a brilliant comedian, I even got to see him live 2 weeks ago and he was keel-over funny. And incredibly smart. BUT very prone to woo. He's been on Alex Jones show. He's to blame for me questioning the pyramids. Funny, funny, funny guy but he has a bit of that woo weakness.
Whose point, whose post? Is this a 'last word' showdown?
You can reasonably respond to one of several points. In fact, you responded to none, opting to lecture me in something it was clear I understood and conceded. I'd even made the point that that was likely - this is an ultra-orthodox forum and I knew that saying 'actors can be intelligent and knowledgeable in specialist fields' ran the risk of being read as 'well these actors might be on to something'.
I suppose you might have been simply agreeing with me, and it just came across as a lecture. Either way...
Your bolding, but very much my point. 'Being an actor' adds nothing - but 'being an actor' doesn't preclude adding something. I can't, off the top of my head, think of an actor with a PhD in anything.
I think you'd be surprised, actually. Having said that, the actors on this list are not A-listers, they're at best second or third tier, most of them not even that.
I was, however, taking issue with dismissal of the opinions of actors, of out hand, as though they knew nothing beyond mindlessly repeating lines written for them and remembering not to look at the camera. Acting is rarely, in and of itself, intellectually taxing, but it isn't solely undertaken by idiots either.
In my experience most actors are very intelligent. But they're also incredibly ignorant. I wouldn't trust most actors with an opinion on filmmaking, let alone a topic outside their field of work.
It's 2 and a half hours long, so I preferred to read 911truth.org's synopsis on it. As it is, I wasted valuable time clicking "dislike" on the vid.
Starring:
Charlie Sheen (Actor: Platoon, Wall Street, Two and a Half Men)
Alex Jones (Radio Host/Film Producer)
Daniel Sunjata (Actor: Rescue Me, Grey�s Anatomy, The Devil Wears Prada)
Jesse Ventura (Actor, Author, TV Host, former Governor of Minnesota)
Dean Haglund (Actor: The X-Files/The Lone Gunman)
Willie Nelson (Singer/Actor)
Mark Ruffalo (Actor: Shutter Island, The Kids Are All Right)
Rosie O�Donnell (Actress/TV Host: The View)
Martin Sheen (Actor: The West Wing, Apocalypse Now)
Geraldo Rivera (TV Host: Geraldo at Large)
Also featuring:
Aaron Russo (Film Director/Producer: The Rose, Trading Places)
Al Franken (TV Host: Air America)
Bob MacIlvaine (Victim Family Member)
Christine Ebersole (Singer/Actress)
Dave Mustaine (Musician/Singer: Megadeath)
David Lynch (Film Director: Twin Peaks, Blue Velvet)
Ed Asner (Actor: The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Lou Grant, Up)
Esai Morales (Actor: La Bamba, Jericho)
Gary Busey (Actor: Lethal Weapon, Point Break)
George Carlin (Comedian)
Gore Vidal (Actor/Author)
Hal Sparks (Actor/Comedian: Queer as Folk, Spider-Man 2)
Henry Rollins (Singer/Actor)
Jeremy Glick (Victim Family Member)
Jim Corr (Singer/Musician: The Corrs)
Joe Rogan (TV Host: Ultimate Fighting Championship)
John Schneider (Actor: Dukes of Hazzard, Desperate Houswives)
Margaret Cho (Actress/Comedian)
Michael Moore (Film Director/Producer)
Prodigy (Rap Artist)
Sam Harris (Singer/Actor)
Other Celebrities who question 9/11 (listed at end of movie):
Dick Gregory (Actor/Writer)
Evan Dando (Musician/Singer: The Lemonheads)
Harry Belafonte (Singer/Actor)
Heather Thomas (Actress: The Fall Guy)
Immortal Technique (Rap Artist)
James Brolin (Actor: Marcus Welby M.D, Hotel; husband of Barbra Streisand)
James Cromwell (Australian Actor: Babe, The Queen)
Janeane Garofalo (Actress: The Truth About Cats & Dogs, 24)
Juliette Binoche (Actress: The English Patient, Chocolat) O Rly? Does she know about this?
Lou Dobbs (TV Host)
Marion Cottilard (Actress: Inception, Nine)
Matt Bellamy (Singer/Musician: Muse; engaged to Kate Hudson)
Michael J Fox (Actor: Family Ties, Back to the Future) ???!
Michelle Phillips (Singer/Actress: The Mamas & The Papas, Knots Landing)
Mimi Kennedy (Actress: Dharma & Greg, Due Date)
Mos Def (Rap Artist)
Nina Hagen (Singer/Actress)
Patrice O�Neal (Comedian/Actor)
Peter Coyote (Actor: E.T. - The Extra Terrestrial, Erin Brockovich)
Roseanne Barr (TV Host/Actress: Roseanne)
Sharon Stone (Actress: Basic Instinct, Casino)
Spencer Pratt (Reality TV Personality: The Hills)
Tom DeLonge (Musician/Actor: Blink 182, American Pie)
Tommy Chong (Actor: Cheech & Chong�s Up In Smoke)
Woody Harrelson (Actor: Cheers, No Country for Old Men)
An Appeal to a False Authority bigger than Ben Hur!
I'll say, what would actors know about it? We really need a list of hollywood camera operators who question 9/11 for the authoritative take on that event.
You can reasonably respond to one of several points. In fact, you responded to none, opting to lecture me in something it was clear I understood and conceded. I'd even made the point that that was likely - this is an ultra-orthodox forum and I knew that saying 'actors can be intelligent and knowledgeable in specialist fields' ran the risk of being read as 'well these actors might be on to something'.
I suppose you might have been simply agreeing with me, and it just came across as a lecture. Either way...
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