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9/11 Paper Accepted to Major Conference

Listening to the audio Fonebone provided (thanks!): Ansgar heard about WTC7 the first time in 2014, and he thinks that people not even knowing about it is the first reason why it isn't a bigger topic in academia. From a video I saw before this thread started I guess Ansgar is quite young for a doctor, likely between 30 and 40 years old.

Edited by zooterkin: 
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Edited for rule 11 and rule 12.
 
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So... how were the explosives engineered to cause the collapse of the three buildings... has anyone set this down in writing yet for review?
 
OK I thought I had already posted on this topic at this forum. Looks like I was wrong. BUT I recently posted a lengthy explanation on a Face Book group which is a "Truther Echo Box" and has only a couple of rational*** "debunkers" making some contribution. (*** Don't ask what an alleged rational person is doing in such a den of obsessive ignorance.. :o )

In essence I have read two of Ansgar Schnieder's papers and in both he makes the fatal error which dogged debate in these mainstream forums for many years. He takes the Bazant Limit Case Modelling from Bazant & Zhou 2001/2 and presumes that the columns remained in line resisting collapse. So shades of "Missing Jolt" and all that went with that error circa 2007 through 2010.

Therefore the discussion of his qualifications is irrelevant. His premise is wrong for the two papers I have seen. So qualification is irrelevant.

I have not seen the paper intended for the conference - I'm not aware if it has been pre-released.

I'll include the full text of my Facebook post under a spoiler.

If anyone reads the papers - like me it should be deja vu and 10 year flashback time. :boggled:

OK [User Name] - forget my request for links to the German paper - I've found some links which may be sufficient UNLESS you can access more details than what follows:

It is referenced on the AE91 website that he intends to present a paper to a conference. The actual paper not identified BUT research has identified two extant papers by the author Ansgar Schnieder - a German mathematician. These are the papers with links:

"THE LATE JOLT RE-EXAMINING THE WORLD TRADE CENTER CATASTROPHE " linked at https://arxiv.org/pdf/1712.06207.pdf AND
"ENERGY ESTIMATES OF PROGRESSIVE FLOOR COLLAPSES AND THE WORLD TRADE CENTER CATASTROPHE" which is at https://arxiv.org/pdf/1712.06183.pdf.

Your understanding that "The Bazant study was just refuted via a peer reviewed study from a German [mathematician]..." is near enough correct. He identifies one issue that Bazant IMO and near certainly got wrong. But in both his papers Ansgar S makes an error that many others have made which Bazant originally got right BUT most readers of his work misunderstood. Then - years later - Bazant himself fell for the trap he had inadvertently set for others.

The whole mess and misunderstandings has a long issue of confusion and contentious debate - which I can explain if you need it.

BUT - remember I advised to NOT rely on Bazant or NIST. Here's why - because with these two papers Ansgar Schneider has followed the same false track by making one fundamental error. The same error in both papers.

There are a couple of main points:
Background. Bazant's first paper was one with his student Zhou published 9/13 - yes - two days after 9/11. Remember "first to publish" is a big thing among academics. The paper was improved, peer reviewed and re published early in 2002. And - key feature - it is a "one dimensional approximation" AKA a "limit case" which assumes that the falling material in the Twin towers Top Block fell through the "path of most resistance" AKA with the columns fully in line and presenting the maximum resistance to collapse. That is the worst case. And Bazant (plus Zhou) found that even in the worst case the collapse would progress.

There are two things that could be wrong with that.

The first is that it wasn't the actual mechanism which occurred. The actual mechanism had less resistance. BUT a whole generation of "debunkers" missed the point. THEN
The second is that he MAY have got his energy quantification wrong.

<< That second point is the point that Ansgar makes and I think he is on the right track. [Edit - insert - he claims Bazant's quantification of energy was wrong. ] He is not the first - some years back a paper by Szuladzinski, Szamboti and Johns made the same point in a paper that AFAIK no one has ever rebutted. And Tony Szamboti is now the leading engineer of AE911. I think they were right.

There are several ironies in the complex history of errors and misunderstandings. NIST seemed to rely on Bazant for that infamous conclusion "from that stage global collapse was inevitable". Irony because NIST was probably right for the wrong reason. Subsequent research identified the correct mechanism and it proves that global collapse was inevitable.

So remember my advice - ignore NIST and Bazant and other third party claims. Look to the actual event and the actual collapse mechanism. And I realise that it is not an easy path for persons who are not engineers with significant experience.

Whether or not Ansgar Schneider has another paper to present to the conference it is unlikely he will get it totally correct. But he is partially right to identify faults in some of Bazant's work.

It wont matter to AE911 who will "spin" it their way. But if you need more details just ask. Otherwise lets wait and see if he presents a different paper and keep comments till then.
 
Listening to the audio Fonebone provided (thanks!): Ansgar heard about WTC7 the first time in 2014, and he thinks that people not even knowing about it is the first reason why it isn't a bigger topic in academia. From a video I saw before this thread started I guess Ansgar is quite young for a doctor, likely between 30 and 40 years old.

More people haven't heard about WTC7 because nobody died in it. The FDNY and the NYPD Bomb Squad were there in its shadow all that day waiting for it to come down. #7 was part of the WTC complex and we know what caused all of the destruction. Plus he's 13 years late to the party and starts from a ridiculous premise; that the investigation was faulty, and suggests the attacks were staged because of the chosen course of action by the United States after the attacks.

In short this is the same old story. Worse, he brings nothing new to the table. No new evidence of any kind, just postulations based on a creative interpretation of a limited set of facts. Based on reading through the MANY threads on WTC7 where credentialed engineers have argued the NIST findings it seems that while the exact cause of the collapse is still open to a heated debate, the use of explosive charges has been completely ruled out.
 
And I still can't even spell his name, that's how generic it is. Next Dave Rogers will give us an overview on some thing or another.
How does a paper refute 19 terrorists, four jets, and fire? Like CIT, Ansgar can't grasp reality. Another failed apologist for 19 terrorists. Peace Press, looks like it is run by idiots, and Ansgar looks like a nut.

German mathematician Ansgar Schneider was pleased to learn last month that his new paper, “The Structural Dynamics of the World Trade Center Catastrophe” — which refutes the official theory of the Twin Towers’ total destruction —

Another failed dolt, Ansgar has no clue 19 terrorists did 9/11 and the fires caused the collapse of the WTC towers.

Ansgar failed, and he has no clue why. Another failed clueless 9/11 truth dolt.

Ansgar says :
Here's an explanation: this statement about the deliberate destruction of the three skyscrapers is not some "opinion," but the only known statement that explains all empirical data. In principle, it can be refuted at any time by explaining the data in the context of a fire-induced and gravitational collapse.
Oh. He failed to figure out fire caused the collapse. Why, he is an idiot.

The dolt Ansgar waves his hands and declares, with out evidence, without thinking :
there is only one scientific explanation, namely that all three skyscrapers were intentionally destroyed.

Who did it Ansgar? lol, fire - guess they failed to teach fire to Ansgar, the next failed 9/11 truth guru of woo.
 
I read it. Spoiler
It's crap

That is truth.

Like watching Titanic, I know the ending. When I see the claim fire can't do it, the paper fails before reading, I know the ending. Doubt CE, fooled by CIT, can debunk crap based on paranoid woo.
 
I read both papers, they are crap.
Not totally so - overall crap yes - but there are a couple of true bits that are not often recognised or acknowledged.

But he is 10 years behind the time. the "rights" and "wrongs" of Bazant's work caused some conflict a decade ago. And his assertion that Bazant's quantification of energy to support his "Limit Case" finding is in error is not news. Some of us have for many years been identifying the ironic reality that NIST may have been right for the wrong reasons with that infamous "global collapse was inevitable".
 
These truther guys all go down the wrong path. They start their endeavor with the belief that we were lied to. Since the MSM and USG lies constantly.... the official story can't be correct. But they decide that they need to "prove it". They never do and they never present what is what they believe is the truth.... and try to "prove" that with evidence. Even without a proof... they never present a complete and coherent "story" technical and timeline accounting for all observations and evidence but which is a CD / false flag. Over the years we have suffered through all sorts of crazy stories claiming to show that what explains the collapses is impossible. A series of slackers... who prove and show nothing but errors... We've been waiting for Hulsey for years... but the list is long beginning with Jones, Chandler, through Ross, Szamboti, Cole, Basile, Harit et al and now this clown... who author bogus error filled papers or publish videos to slip the wool over the eyes of the gullible.

The truth movement works like Scientology... sucker's truth.
 
Ansgar Schneider In his own words .............

Structural Dynamics of the World Trade Center Catastrophe
https://noliesradio.org/archives/166761


Listen to his analysis of the physics of the three tower collapses clearly explained with mathematics and expertise.

I'd rather hear what you took away from it. What impressed you and why. I'll let the mathematicians sort out the maths.

CE? Fonebone?

Do either of you have the credentials to declare the paper is not crap?

Both good questions, to which we are unlikely ever to get an answer.
Funny how evasive Truthers can be. Apparently the neverending quest for truth doesn't actually involve giving straight answers.
 
Ansgar Schneider In his own words ...........Listen to his analysis of the physics of the three tower collapses clearly explained with mathematics and expertise.
Naughty Fonebone - quotemining!

The referenced article ALSO says this:
.....the paper he will be presenting at the annual conference ... refutes the official theory of the Twin Towers’ total destruction developed by engineer Zdenek Bazant.
Which is false. The "official theory" was NOT "developed...by Bazant".

And the two papers A Schnieder has published:
1) Are BOTH based on the false "columns stayed in line" assumption that confused debate for many years;
2) He identifies a probable error of quantification in the Bazant & Zhou paper which some of us have referred to many times and which was identified in a paper co-authored by T Szamboti which AFAIK as never been rebutted.

So he is wrong on his main conclusion. May be right on a couple of specific issues AND he is many years too late. He is in effect reprising issues which were debated cica 2008 thru 2011.

Not that truth or reality will stop AE911 "spinning" it. :rolleyes:
 
I'm trying to imagine the Q&A after this presentation.

Q - Do you realize that you just refuted the limiting case?
A - Wut
 
I'm trying to imagine the Q&A after this presentation.

Q - Do you realize that you just refuted the limiting case?
A - Wut
Actually he refutes the energy quantification that Bazant & Zhou relied on. BUT seems to accept the remainder of the limit case mechanism.

Both errors identified on this forum many years back. He makes the same error as Szamboti's main error with missing jolt - in that both take the limit case mechanism literally i.e. as what actually happend.

And he identifies that Bazant's energy calculations may have been wrong. The same point that Szuladzinski, Szamboti and Johns identified in their paper. Which was also many years too late. BUT AFAIK the claim of "wrong energy calcs" has not been rebutted as I have reported numerous times on this and other Forums.

So take care of what gets thrown out. There is a baby in his bathwater.
 
Actually he refutes the energy quantification that Bazant & Zhou relied on. BUT seems to accept the remainder of the limit case mechanism.

You might be taking this too literally.

Dude - I have refuted the official theory of the Twin Towers’ total destruction developed by engineer Zdenek Bazant.
Q - Do you realize that you just refuted a portion of a limiting case?
A - Wut
 

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