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9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

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None of this proves that the Holocaust didn't happen, you know. Nor were conditions in the camps similar. For one, the US didn't gas 6 million Japanese.

Well, neither did the German to the Jews.
The gassing was only part of the Holocaust.

But, yes, the major difference was that the Nazi's policy aimed at the systematic murder of the victims, the U.S's was internment.

Nonetheless:
There is one similarity though. The US admit they did wrong to the Japanese, and have given them compensation to the tune of $1.2 Billion. The various camps are being preserved as historical monuments to "forever stand as reminders that this nation failed in its most sacred duty to protect its citizens against prejudice, greed, and political expediency". As we well know, the Germans too admit to what they did.

Indeed, while the wrongdoings the U.S government did inflict on its own citizen of Japanese descent pale to the point of transparency when compared to the horrors born from the Nazis' diseased minds, they still were unacceptable war-crimes and nobody is denying them.
 
You have great difficulty to distinguish between the medium and the message, don't you?

Some comfort: the document is now posted on JREF which you no doubt judge to be a credible resource, so that problem is out of the way.

So posting a link to it on the JREF automatically grants credibility?

:confused:

Anyway, in this case, neither the medium nor the message is reliable. This is a site full of bare assertion fallacies, rampant antisemitism and flat-out falsehoods. It is completely unreliable, and you saying otherwise does not make it so.

I would agree with that the PNAC crowd desired that war and hence made an invasion happen (by organizing 9/11)

Nice derail attempt. Again.
 
Ok, so which other territories were designated for Jewish resettlement? Because you make it sound like the Germans had a plan. Plans are usually written down somewhere. Surely you can show us some documentary evidence which territories were allocated to the Jews?

Let's start with this evidence:

http://www.ghwk.de/2006-neu/gruppenfuehrer-greiser.jpg

The policy of deportation of Jews to the east, which was decided upon by
Hitler himself in September 1941, received its official blessing in a letter,
which Himmler wrote to Gauleiter Arthur Greiser on September 18, 1941:550

Translation:

“The Führer desires that the Altreich [Germany proper] and the Protectorate be emptied and freed of Jews as soon as possible, from the west to the east. It is therefore my intention, if possible already this year, to initially transport the Jews from the Altreich and the Protectorate into the eastern territories newly incorporated into the Reich two years ago, as a first stage, in order to deport them still farther to the east next spring. I am planning to bring about 60,000 Jews of the Altreich and the Protectorate into the Litzmannstadt Ghetto for the winter, which, as I understand, has space to accept them. In the interests of the Reich as a whole, I am asking you not only to understand, but to exert all your powers in supporting this measure, which surely will cause difficulties for your district. SS-Gruppenführer Heydrich, who has the task of carrying out this migration of Jews, will be turning to you in due course, directly or through SS-Gruppenführer Koppe.”
 
Aktion Reinhard.

Note how it started in October 1941. Note that the Wannsee conference was only four months later.

While it seem very likely to me that Himmler was already of the opinion that murder was the simplest way to get rid of their prisoners and that what he was asking Greiser where preparatory steps in this direction, the extermination policy had not yet been officially decided upon.

The point is that you are arguing against a policy of systematic extermination that we already know did not exist at the time.
 
That's simple: these territories were designed to be Germanized after the Endsieg. Lebensraum and stuff.

I must remind you that Germans conquered much more Soviet territory than just the Baltics, Ukraine and Bellarus. There was more than enough space to 'dump' a few millions. A few thousand trainloads is enough for that purpose. Why burden yourself and your people with an horrific process of killing millions? If you can ship them from Western Europe to Poland you can ship them to the USSR as well. BTW the Serbs had Kosovo cleansed in a matter of 2 days.

Here an overview of post WW2 Jewish emigration to Israel.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/fsuemig.html

It was hardly possible to leave the USSR before Gorbatchev came along. It would be very interesting to go to Israel and carry out a statistical analysis under a few thousand of these Soviet emigrees to determine their family history. Be prepared for some surprises.


Since the Germans were murdering Jews by the millions in Russia with well documented execution squads, why do you think they would send millions more to Russia -- and please provide any substantive evidence to show how these millions made it there, since no revisionist has ever been able to show this
 
Another gem from those evil Germans:

http://www.cwporter.com/SCAN 40/beeld-214.jpg

1937. Document contains a warning to all those camp commandants who want to mistreat the prisoners. An SS-man who did so was degraded. A simple box on the ear is considered 'full mistreatment'.

Completely at odds with the general pictured delivered to us by the likes of Spielberg.

1937 is not 1942 or 1944 -- a confusion which is common among deniers
 
That's simple: these territories were designed to be Germanized after the Endsieg. Lebensraum and stuff.
I must remind you that Germans conquered much more Soviet territory than just the Baltics, Ukraine and Bellarus. There was more than enough space

Disinformation and propaganda grows more difficult to debunk as time moves from the event. In real terms can a subjective view after the event have credence given it was not personally experienced. We whom were born after 1945 are all just regurgertating input, and that input came from the enviroment we were nutured in, hence my defence of you as an individual in regard to your views. We must consider that from the first day after the capitulation of the axis the anti semites and the Zionist were moulding history to favour their position, they both tell lies. One attempts to lessen the impact of the event and the other amplifies it, it's human nature.

When considering statistics in regard to the number of Jews in Europe pre and post war the numbers must be taken with the previously mentioned deceitful moulding that positively frames the arguement to your view. You must consider on the ground realities such as most European cities had a vibrant Jewish citizenry that generally like all ethnic groups outside wherever they consider their homeland to be, lived in enclaves A jewish quarter so to speak, but they were empty after 45. My relatives who as children and teens lived in these places told me that they all had seen the round up of Jews by the Auxiliary Police, they massacred them just miles from their villages, and after that they did not see any Jews other than the odd survivor, usually children and teens. Before the war the NAZI's considered deporting the Jews to Madagascar, and Eichman and the boys knocked it back on ligistical grounds, there was no sentiment to destroy the Jew's, just move them out of the Reichs backyard. Then the war came and the political motivation to free Europe from Jewish communities did not diminish, so the decision was made to utilize them as a resourse and destroy the rest immediately, or as soon as practical.

Where did all the Jews go after 45. The houses were still there, many street names have an origin pertaining to Jewish residents, but no Jews. Regarding your response "there was more to Russia than the Baltic States, Belarus and Ukraine" there sure was but it was not secured, they were still fighting over it. No the only possible field of operation with the stability to direct and govern was these territories, and they were pretty well Jew free after 1945. So after moving them east they must have moved them elsewhere.

9/11 your steadfast commitment to no holocaust having occured in Europe, and the ongoing defense of the proposition has led me to consider a new scenario as to your motives. You are just about the only voice carring forward your views and everybody else on the forum is a detractor. Could it be you are a Zionist who trots out this fanciful frame of thought to raise and propogate the scenario of holocaust? Rememberance is a prime strategy to the Zionist in regard to this issue....just a thought.
 
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For people who are interested to learn more about Treblinka and it's function as a transit camp download the free book (12.7MB):

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/

Carlo Mattogno, Jürgen Graf - Treblinka Extermination Camp or Transit Camp? from 2003.

More on the destination of the Jews after Treblinka can be read from page 196:

Direct Transports of Jews to the Eastern Territories

The deportation of 50,000 Jews from the Protectorate and the Altreich to
Minsk and Riga, decided upon during the meeting of October 10, 1941, began
a month later. However, it represented only the first step of the deportations,
since the deportees were supposed to be taken even farther east. One of the first reports concerning the deportations into the Ostland is a telegram of November 9, 1941, directed to Rosenberg by Lohse, which reads as follows:

“Security Police reports implementation of the transport of 50,000 Jews
into the Ostland. Arrival of the 1st transport at Minsk, November 10, in Riga November 19. Urgently request to prevent transports, since Jewish camps must be shifted considerably farther to the east.”


On the same day, Dr. Leibbrand, head of the office at the Rosenberg Ministry, sent the following telegram to Lohse:

“Regarding transports of Jews into the Ostland. Precise message on its way. Jews are coming farther east. Camps in Riga and Minsk only temporary measures, no objections on that account here.”
 
So they stopped the train in Russia and just kicked the Dutch Jews off the train?

:jaw-dropp

From the Treblinka book, page 257:

According to Radio Moscow, several thousand French Jews were resettled in the Ukraine. In its issue Number 71 of April 1944, the Jewish underground
paper Notre Voix had the following news to report:

“Thank you! A news item that will delight all Jews of France was broadcast by Radio Moscow. Which of us does not have a brother, a sister, or relatives among those deported from Paris? And who will not feel pro-found joy when he thinks about the fact that 8,000 Parisian Jews have been rescued from death by the glorious Red Army! One of them told Radio Moscow how he had been saved from death, and likewise 8,000 other Parisian Jews. They were all in the Ukraine when the last Soviet offensive began, and the SS bandits wanted to shoot them before they left the country. But since they knew what fate was in store for them and since they had learned that the Soviet troops were no longer far away, the deported Jews decided to escape. They were immediately welcomed by the Red Army and are presently all in the Soviet Union. The heroic Red Army has thus once again earned a claim on the gratitude of the Jewish community of France.”

If French Jews, why not Dutch Jews?
 
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1937 is not 1942 or 1944 -- a confusion which is common among deniers

Trojan, exactly so. The sentiment and means available to ship the Jews out of Europe was gone in 39 but the issue remained and we know how they solved it. Perhaps the Reich would have moved all the Jews to Siberia if they had won the war, they certainly considered Madagascar as I had mentioned to 9/11. The war changed it all for one primary reason, the slave resourse that the Reich needed to run a war economy. When the decision was made to work the Jews their value as a commodity was benchmarked and their fate was sealed.

Re the do not beat the prisoners from 37, most were German political prisoners and they got out. The original premise for the KZ's was re education through indoctrination and physical activity....that 37 memo does not relate and is meaningless to this discussion.
 
I don't know, the bulletin mentions that the SS bandit wanted to shoot them.
Maybe they manage to do so for the Dutch Jews?

You realize that what you are proving is that the relocation of 8000 Jews was rare enough to be News-worthy and reported.
Considering that no such news is available for the immense majority of the 6000000 victims, this is actually evidential to the fact that their fate was different.
 
The deportation of 50,000 Jews from the Protectorate and the Altreich to
Minsk and Riga

So? not from Poland?

And where does it say they went through Treblinka?
T2 (the extermination camp) wasn't even operative in november 1941.
 
Rest assured this is not the case. I consider you an asset.
.
Funny how, even when you acknowledge having read the request for a citation or link, you snip it and run.

What do you think it says about the strength of your "case" that you have to lie about things such as the Krege Report and then run so obviously from those lies?

Can I get another quote so we can rub 9/11's nose in this some more?
.
 
I don't know, the bulletin mentions that the SS bandit wanted to shoot them.
Maybe they manage to do so for the Dutch Jews?

Simon belongs to the category who, if the Soviets claim that the Germans killed thousands of the Polish elite, takes their word for it. Anything the noble Soviets say is true, you know. Simon loves Soviets.

You realize that what you are proving is that the relocation of 8000 Jews was rare enough to be News-worthy and reported.
Considering that no such news is available for the immense majority of the 6000000 victims, this is actually evidential to the fact that their fate was different.

No, just a point I discovered once I started to look for this kind of material. We need to think out of the box, meaning think out of the 'gas chamber'.
 
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What do you think it says about the strength of your "case" that you have to lie about things such as the Krege Report and then run so obviously from those lies?


We have discussed the results of Krege earlier in this thread. It was obvious to all what was available and what was not. Why do you bring it up again in page 65 again?
 
Trojan, exactly so. The sentiment and means available to ship the Jews out of Europe was gone in 39 but the issue remained and we know how they solved it. Perhaps the Reich would have moved all the Jews to Siberia if they had won the war, they certainly considered Madagascar as I had mentioned to 9/11.

Excellent. We all agree about Madagaskar. Eichmann visited Palestine in the thirties to see if he could ship the Jews there. No homicidal intent there.

So why would the Germans change their minds in 1941/1942 while they were still in the winning mood and had new vast territories at their disposal to catapult the Jews into rather than Madagaskar or Palestine? And I have shown you documents that prove that that was exactly the German intent.

I told you before that I am willing to take in account as a theoretical possiblity that the Germans started to exterminate the Jews later on as it became clear to the Germans them that they would lose the war. But not before. I have the documents for my case, you haven't anything to show other than repeating your tiring mantra

The war changed it all for one primary reason, the slave resourse that the Reich needed to run a war economy.

Why would you exterminate a slave resource in a situation where you are outnumbered by Soviets, Americans and the like?

When the decision was made to work the Jews their value as a commodity was benchmarked and their fate was sealed.

Don't understand this sentence.
 
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