9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[Kurse]

I did visit Auschwitz.

I do not confuse them. There is no homicidal gas chamber.

Show me the gas chamber.

Show me that you went. Not he said she said, but actual proof.

Also, the biggest thing about most of the stuff you put out is that its from neofacists and neonazis. Now how is it that you always find information from the same source?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
I wonder who that describes.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Clear for anybody who does not lie. The document was not addressed at the Dutch Jews - their (forced) representatives were the "Joodsche Raad" or Jewish Council. The addressee of the letter is the "Zentralstelle für jüdische Auswanderung", an office of the SD, led by the notorious Willy Lages and Ferdinand aus der Fünten.

I have to admit that I made a mistake and mixed up the Zentrallstelle für jüdische Auswanderung and the Joodsche Raad.

But it doesn't make any difference regarding the revelation of the concept of 'Final Solution of the Jewish Question' as a program of deportation and not extermination. According to the official story the Final Solution was decided upon during the Wannsee conference and had this sinister ring about it. From the document quoted however it becomes obvious that the Germans used the word freely to describe the deportation process. And DDT can call me a liar as much as he wants but he can't make anything else from it.

And now that I am reading the Dutch wikipedia article on the Joodsche Raad I see this: "Later, in Westerbork, werden Asscher en Cohen geïnformeerd door Aus der Fünten (Hauptsturmführer-SS en belast met de dagelijkse leiding over de Zentralstelle für jüdische Auswanderung) en de Westerborkse kampcommandant Gemmeker, dat de Joodsche Raad had opgehouden te bestaan.". It says that later the Zentralstelle was lead by Jews from the Joodsche Raad, an institution founded by the Germans to get a grip on the Jewish community in Holland. As leaders from the Zentralstelle they must have had perfect insight in these documents. Conclusion:

Final Solution = American Operation Wetback

Here is a 2nd document in the same line:

http://www.cwporter.com/SCAN 40/beeld-33ter.jpg

Translation:

Berlin, 14 December 1942
[references]
Financing of the Solution to the Jewish Question
1. Comment
A. State of the Situation
The Reichmarschall has assigned the Reichsführer SS and Chief of the German Police with preparation of the measures for the Jewish Questions over an extended period. The Reichsführer SS has entrusted the Chief of the Security Police and SD with implementation of these tasks. He first encouraged the legal emigration of the Jews overseas through special measures. When emigration overseas was made impossible by the outbreak of the war, he introduced the gradual freeing of the Reichsterritory from Jews through their deportation to the East. Moreover, old people’s homes (ghettos for the aged) for the reception of the Jews were recently built within the Reichs territory, for example, at Theresienstadt. For details, please see remark of 21 December 1942. The construction of further old people’s homes in the Eastern territories is planned for the near future. The Chief of the Security Police and SD, for the implementation of their measures, have largely used the ‘Reichs Association of the Jews German’, which was created by the Tenth Order of the Reichs Citizenship Law of 4 July 1939. The Reichs Association, according the section 4 of this regulation, is subject to supervision by the Chief of the Security Police and SD. The financing of the measures, some of which are extraordinarily expensive, has thus far taken place without making any budgetary claims. The funds are being raised in various ways...

This is inner German communication one year after Wannsee where supposedly the extermination program was decided upon. From this document it becomes clear what really was discussed and decided at Wannsee.

 

[9/11-investigator]

[qimg]http://www.flashpointsocialmedia.com/Area51/Orion/Images/o_rly.jpg[/qimg]

Show me that you went. Not he said she said, but actual proof.

Also, the biggest thing about most of the stuff you put out is that its from neofacists and neonazis. Now how is it that you always find information from the same source?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
I wonder who that describes.

Kurse refuses to produce a picture from a homicidal gas chamber (because there were no homicidal gas chambers) and instead tries to derail the discussion into the complete irrelevant question whether I did or did not visit Auschwitz as a tourist. And next he posts silly juvenile pictures which painfully illustrate that Kurse has nothing of substance to say on the matter.

 

[9/11-investigator]

I really dismiss the re sttlement to the east bulldust. What I would like to know is why were there no Jews in numbers to speak of in the Ukraine and Bellarus, and the Baltic states after the war, thats where all European Jewery was sent, or did they all change their names to Ivanoff.

That's simple: these territories were designed to be Germanized after the Endsieg. Lebensraum and stuff.

I must remind you that Germans conquered much more Soviet territory than just the Baltics, Ukraine and Bellarus. There was more than enough space to 'dump' a few millions. A few thousand trainloads is enough for that purpose. Why burden yourself and your people with an horrific process of killing millions? If you can ship them from Western Europe to Poland you can ship them to the USSR as well. BTW the Serbs had Kosovo cleansed in a matter of 2 days.

Here an overview of post WW2 Jewish emigration to Israel.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/fsuemig.html

It was hardly possible to leave the USSR before Gorbatchev came along. It would be very interesting to go to Israel and carry out a statistical analysis under a few thousand of these Soviet emigrees to determine their family history. Be prepared for some surprises.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Sure. But with the rarity of 9/11's responses to me, I might as well be on ignore.

Rest assured this is not the case. I consider you an asset. If you were not there I had to invent you. Good arguments can support a case. But bad arguments to attack the same case are at least as supportive for that case.

Carry on with the good work my friend.

The holocaust happened: 'google holocaust'

See?

Priceless.

 

[9/11-investigator]

I love it when they wheel out the swimming pool.

Hey, 9/11-investigator, two questions

1) when was the swimming pool built and first used?
2) do your denier sources tell you of any documents stating 'we will build a swimming pool' or 'we have now built a swimming pool' in the 80,000 pages of the construction office archive?

(A denier double standard will shortly be illustrated.)

Nick wants to make the discussion more lively by starting a quiz.

I don't know but I can guess: in 1935. This pool was used for the Gay-games to be held in 1936 in the wake of the Berlin olympics?

I don't consider the swimming pool as a central issue in deciding whether the holocaust happened (as alleged) or not. I do know that a swimming pool, a library, a theater, a hospital do not necessarily strengthen your extermination case.

To put it mildly.

 

[9/11-investigator]

If you were a real Dutchman, you would be the side of truth, you would not be defending the invaders of your nation, the enslavers of your people, the nation that invented terror bombing on your nations cities. That you claim your own father was enslaved and still seek defend the murdereres - yes, something is indeed wrong.

I don't defend the actions of the Germans, although they never sought war in the west. That war was forced upon them.

I just deny you the right to write history as you please.

 

[Nonpareil]

I have to admit that I made a mistake and mixed up the Zentrallstelle für jüdische Auswanderung and the Joodsche Raad.

But it doesn't make any difference regarding the revelation of the concept of 'Final Solution of the Jewish Question' as a program of deportation and not extermination. According to the official story the Final Solution was decided upon during the Wannsee conference and had this sinister ring about it. From the document quoted however it becomes obvious that the Germans used the word freely to describe the deportation process. And DDT can call me a liar as much as he wants but he can't make anything else from it.

Well, you're right on that score. It is physically impossible for anyone to get through to you. You will not listen to reason.

And now that I am reading the Dutch wikipedia article on the Joodsche Raad I see this: "Later, in Westerbork, werden Asscher en Cohen geïnformeerd door Aus der Fünten (Hauptsturmführer-SS en belast met de dagelijkse leiding over de Zentralstelle für jüdische Auswanderung) en de Westerborkse kampcommandant Gemmeker, dat de Joodsche Raad had opgehouden te bestaan.". It says that later the Zentralstelle was lead by Jews from the Joodsche Raad, an institution founded by the Germans to get a grip on the Jewish community in Holland. As leaders from the Zentralstelle they must have had perfect insight in these documents. Conclusion:

Final Solution = American Operation Wetback

Is there a translation of this anywhere? I don't read German, and I can't find any sources on the Zentralstelle that aren't in German either. Not even a definition. Until I get more information on this, I really can't make any comment.

Here is a 2nd document in the same line:

http://www.cwporter.com/SCAN 40/beeld-33ter.jpg

<snip>

This is inner German communication one year after Wannsee where supposedly the extermination program was decided upon. From this document it becomes clear what really was discussed and decided at Wannsee.

I have explained already why this is not a reliable source.

That's simple: these territories were designed to be Germanized after the Endsieg. Lebensraum and stuff.

I must remind you that Germans conquered much more Soviet territory than just the Baltics, Ukraine and Bellarus. There was more than enough space to 'dump' a few millions. A few thousand trainloads is enough for that purpose. Why burden yourself and your people with an horrific process of killing millions? If you can ship them from Western Europe to Poland you can ship them to the USSR as well. BTW the Serbs had Kosovo cleansed in a matter of 2 days.

This still does not address the fact that the USSR citizens eventually reclaimed their territory. What happened to the Jews then?

Here an overview of post WW2 Jewish emigration to Israel.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/fsuemig.html

It was hardly possible to leave the USSR before Gorbatchev came along. It would be very interesting to go to Israel and carry out a statistical analysis under a few thousand of these Soviet emigrees to determine their family history. Be prepared for some surprises.

Nice derail attempt.

Rest assured this is not the case. I \
consider you an asset. If you were not there I had to invent you. Good arguments can support a case. But bad arguments to attack the same case are at least as supportive for that case.

Carry on with the good work my friend.

Well, seeing as you have proven yourself time and time again completely unable to refute even the most basic of my assertions, I think I will. Thanks.
I notice that, even though you claim that my arguments are nonsense, you still avoid addressing them like the plague.

The holocaust happened: 'google holocaust'

See?

Priceless.

You asked for pictures, I provided pictures. Aside from that, I have not posted any links to Google search results. Nice try, though.

Nick wants to make the discussion more lively by starting a quiz.

I don't know but I can guess: in 1935. This pool was used for the Gay-games to be held in 1936 in the wake of the Berlin olympics?

I don't consider the swimming pool as a central issue in deciding whether the holocaust happened (as alleged) or not. I do know that a swimming pool, a library, a theater, a hospital do not necessarily strengthen your extermination case.

To put it mildly.

They also do not help to weaken it. They are either a) irrelevant or b) lies, as I have addressed in previous posts.

 

[Nonpareil]

I don't defend the actions of the Germans, although they never sought war in the west. That war was forced upon them.

I just deny you the right to write history as you please.

And we deny you the same right. The Germans invaded France. Therefore, they desired a war.

Cut the lies.

 

[9/11-investigator]

This is an instructive map for future reference of the concentration camps:

http://www.cwporter.com/beeld-1.jpg

And here a map of the German conquests in the East:

1941-42
1942
Barbarossa

 

[9/11-investigator]

And we deny you the same right. The Germans invaded France. Therefore, they desired a war.

The Americans invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, hence they desired the war.

You want to defend that?

I knew I could count on you kicking in your own door.

 

[Amazer]

That's simple: these territories were designed to be Germanized after the Endsieg. Lebensraum and stuff.

Ok, so which other territories were designated for Jewish resettlement? Because you make it sound like the Germans had a plan. Plans are usually written down somewhere. Surely you can show us some documentary evidence which territories were allocated to the Jews?

I must remind you that Germans conquered much more Soviet territory than just the Baltics, Ukraine and Bellarus. There was more than enough space to 'dump' a few millions. A few thousand trainloads is enough for that purpose. Why burden yourself and your people with an horrific process of killing millions? If you can ship them from Western Europe to Poland you can ship them to the USSR as well.

Evidence that this actually happened? You seem to be laboring under the impression that if you make this claim often enough, that it will become true. It doesn't work like that.

Here an overview of post WW2 Jewish emigration to Israel.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/fsuemig.html

So? What does that have to do with the Holocaust?

It was hardly possible to leave the USSR before Gorbatchev came along. It would be very interesting to go to Israel and carry out a statistical analysis under a few thousand of these Soviet emigrees to determine their family history. Be prepared for some surprises.

Perhaps, but on what basis do you claim that there will be surprises? Have you done such a statistical analysis yourself? Or do you know of others who have done such an analysis?

 

[9/11-investigator]

Another gem from those evil Germans:

http://www.cwporter.com/SCAN 40/beeld-214.jpg

1937. Document contains a warning to all those camp commandants who want to mistreat the prisoners. An SS-man who did so was degraded. A simple box on the ear is considered 'full mistreatment'.

Completely at odds with the general pictured delivered to us by the likes of Spielberg.

 

[Nonpareil]

This is an instructive map for future reference of the concentration camps:

http://www.cwporter.com/beeld-1.jpg

<snip>

And again, this is not a reliable source.

The Americans invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, hence they desired the war.

You want to defend that?

I knew I could count on you kicking in your own door.

Actually, yes, I do defend that.

Another gem from those evil Germans:

<snip more junk from horrible sources>

So, do you have anything else? This site you're currently using isn't worth a dime.

 

[Uzzy]

The Americans invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, hence they desired the war.

You want to defend that?

I knew I could count on you kicking in your own door.

I fail to see quite what that has to do with the Holocaust. Nice derail attempt, though.

Besides, the Gleiwitz incident, and the impressive ability of the Wehrmacht to deploy its troops in massive numbers just a few days later show quite clearly that Hitler had been planning and preparing for the war. If he didn't want a war with France or England, he shouldn't have attacked them or their allies.

 

[9/11-investigator]

The Germans considered the Jews to be behind the rise of Bolshevism, the worst desaster ever happened to mankind. They accused the Jews of wanting to bolshevize the entire planet, starting with Europe. They wanted to do something against it and decided to deport the cause of what they saw as the source of evil.

The Japanese attacked the US (provoked by the US but that's another story). So what did the US authorities do? This:

http://www.cwporter.com/SCAN 40/beeld-25.jpg

They behaved exactly in the same manner.

You know what this is? http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/japanese-internment-camp-3.jpg

Dachau? Auschwitz? Looks like it indeed. But here is what it really is:

The housing barracks, built by the U.S. Army engineer corps, at the internment center where Japanese Americans are relocated in Amache, Colo., are shown on June 21, 1943.

ACLU stood almost alone in denouncing US concentration camps more than 110,000 Americans
http://www.mysaline.com/forum/topics/aclu-stood-almost-alone-in

This doesn't get a very prominent place in history. After all it is the victor who writes history. But the US will not be much of victor soon, so we get the opportunity to give things a second look.

 

[Nonpareil]

The Germans considered the Jews to be behind the rise of Bolshevism, the worst desaster ever happened to mankind. They accused the Jews of wanting to bolshevize the entire planet, starting with Europe. They wanted to do something against it and decided to deport the cause of what they saw as the source of evil.

The Japanese attacked the US (provoked by the US but that's another story). So what did the US authorities do? This:

http://www.cwporter.com/SCAN 40/beeld-25.jpg

They behaved exactly in the same manner.

You know what this is? http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/japanese-internment-camp-3.jpg

Dachau? Auschwitz? Looks like it indeed. But here is what it really is:

The housing barracks, built by the U.S. Army engineer corps, at the internment center where Japanese Americans are relocated in Amache, Colo., are shown on June 21, 1943.

ACLU stood almost alone in denouncing US concentration camps more than 110,000 Americans
http://www.mysaline.com/forum/topics/aclu-stood-almost-alone-in

This doesn't get a very prominent place in history. After all it is the victor who writes history. But the US will not be much of victor soon, so we get the opportunity to give things a second look.

Nice derail attempt.

 

[Uzzy]

The Germans considered the Jews to be behind the rise of Bolshevism, the worst desaster ever happened to mankind. They accused the Jews of wanting to bolshevize the entire planet, starting with Europe. They wanted to do something against it and decided to deport the cause of what they saw as the source of evil.

The Japanese attacked the US (provoked by the US but that's another story). So what did the US authorities do? This:

http://www.cwporter.com/SCAN 40/beeld-25.jpg

They behaved exactly in the same manner.

You know what this is? http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/japanese-internment-camp-3.jpg

Dachau? Auschwitz? Looks like it indeed. But here is what it really is:

The housing barracks, built by the U.S. Army engineer corps, at the internment center where Japanese Americans are relocated in Amache, Colo., are shown on June 21, 1943.

ACLU stood almost alone in denouncing US concentration camps more than 110,000 Americans
http://www.mysaline.com/forum/topics/aclu-stood-almost-alone-in

This doesn't get a very prominent place in history. After all it is the victor who writes history. But the US will not be much of victor soon, so we get the opportunity to give things a second look.

None of this proves that the Holocaust didn't happen, you know. Nor were conditions in the camps similar. For one, the US didn't gas 6 million Japanese.

There is one similarity though. The US admit they did wrong to the Japanese, and have given them compensation to the tune of $1.2 Billion. The various camps are being preserved as historical monuments to "forever stand as reminders that this nation failed in its most sacred duty to protect its citizens against prejudice, greed, and political expediency". As we well know, the Germans too admit to what they did.

 

[Amazer]

The Germans considered the Jews to be behind the rise of Bolshevism, the worst desaster ever happened to mankind. They accused the Jews of wanting to bolshevize the entire planet, starting with Europe. They wanted to do something against it and decided to deport the cause of what they saw as the source of evil.

So you keep saying... how about some evidence?

The Japanese attacked the US (provoked by the US but that's another story). So what did the US authorities do? This:

http://www.cwporter.com/SCAN 40/beeld-25.jpg

They behaved exactly in the same manner.

You know what this is? http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/japanese-internment-camp-3.jpg

Dachau? Auschwitz? Looks like it indeed. But here is what it really is:

The housing barracks, built by the U.S. Army engineer corps, at the internment center where Japanese Americans are relocated in Amache, Colo., are shown on June 21, 1943.

ACLU stood almost alone in denouncing US concentration camps more than 110,000 Americans
http://www.mysaline.com/forum/topics/aclu-stood-almost-alone-in

This doesn't get a very prominent place in history. After all it is the victor who writes history. But the US will not be much of victor soon, so we get the opportunity to give things a second look.

Another pathetic derail attempt? This thread isn't about what happened (or didn't) in the USA. It's supposedly about the Holocaust, which you keep claiming didn't happen. So how about you start posting some evidence in support of your claims?

 

[9/11-investigator]

And again, this is not a reliable source.

You have great difficulty to distinguish between the medium and the message, don't you?

Some comfort: the document is now posted on JREF which you no doubt judge to be a credible resource, so that problem is out of the way.

Actually, yes, I do defend that.

I would agree with that the PNAC crowd desired that war and hence made an invasion happen (by organizing 9/11)