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9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

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Headscratcher wrote:"As was predictable, the protestations of lack of knowledge, bias and agenda shows itself to be motivated completely by an assertion of certain knowledge, exhibition of bias and founded on an agenda."

Pure doublespeak pseudo intellectual crap....But well crafted...Neither Mao Tse Tung, or Henry Kissinger could have said it better...Let me know what you think after you read Jack Bernstein's essay...I can hardly wait....My agenda is the end of tyranny in our times and freedom and justice for all men...Thanks
 
2)Zundel was living with his American wife and was singled out and treated unfairly because of his political beliefs. I am not saying that I agree with Mr Zundel regarding his take on the holocaust or anything else. I am not in favor of laws and or policies that punish political dissent.


Maybe when you are prosecuted for being a Nazi, having your lawyer conclude his final speech by reading extract of Mein Kamp... is not the smartest move.

Zündle was wanted since the 90ies for these charges and, rather than facing justice, ran away to Canada where he kept on posting his vitriolic attacks with a vengeance.
Zündel and his friends tried their very best to disturb the trial, one of his lawyers, Stolz, even have to be removed from the trial for disturbing it. The whole bunch seem to have made a tremendous effort to piss of the judge and extract the absolute worst sentencing possible. The case is hardly a fair representation of the application of the anti-hate-speech laws in Germany.
 
I always wondered how people like Zundel attracted devotees, since such devotees must be even dumber than Zundel himself, which seemed impossible. Now jmh423 shows me I was wrong, such people do exist.
 
Simon, your assertion that these holocaust denial laws have been enacted to stop hateful people from:
"making the actions of a criminal regime more appealing, presumably to try and bring it back so that it can get another try. Holocaust denialism can be, in that respect, be considered as being accessory to (future) mass murder."

This is a completely false premise. Those who you catagorize as holocaust deniers are NOT making the alleged actions of a criminal government more appealing. They are saying that the crimes alleged are not true...That's different, wouldn't you agree. If there were people defending the race or religious based mass murders committed by a "criminal regime", I would agree that they should be dealt with as a danger to humanity. That isn't the case with Zundle, or several others who contend that the official story is ********. The "kangaroo courts" in Germany havre even refused to let defendants present evidence that backs their assertions. Do some research about these cases...Thanks

Google Search:"What The Holocaust
Debate Is Really About
Terrell E. Arnold
3-2-9

Informative article that might clear up some misunderstanding about what you percieve as Holocaust Denial...



"I am not a Holocaust Denier but......"


And it is so freaking obvious.
 
"I am not a Holocaust Denier but......"


And it is so freaking obvious.

It is also..."I don't really know much about it but...." Followed by a download of predictable denier sites and assertions that demonstrate full well that more than a little "research" has been done and conclusions been drawn. NeoNazi scum.
 
You guys are all a real hoot!!

Headscratcher calls me "neo-nazi scum"....Which of my words lead you to say I am "neo-nazi scum"? In reality, you couldn't be further from the truth. Hollow accusation with absolutely nothing to back it up. I am against all forms of tyranny against any and all groups of people....I always have been and always will be. You are no doubt a LIAR.

Dudalb calls me a "holocaust denier"......(that's a funny total BS zio-term, like Judeo-Christian or anti-semite)

Vermonter intimates that I am against ALL Jews....."except teh jooooz"

Simon says that Zundel got a real fair shake.....(This was a kangaroo trial if there ever was one) Read both sides of the story, muse boy...I read some of the transcripts. "Right out of USSR justice system"....It would be comical if it wasn't true and such a travesty. The wall came down and the whole country has become East Germany...

Same old non responsive accusatory tactics....

And of course EVERY one of you knuckleheads avoids reading or commenting on the essay of anti-zionist Jewish American Jack Bernstein who like so many other Jews has tried to shed some light on the difference between Zionism, which is a ruthless racist political ideology like Communism, Fascism, or White Supremicism..... and Judaism which is a religion that stresses ETHICS & MORALS....

Again, I have read very little of both sides regarding the actual evidence of how many Jews were killed or by what means, however I do know that there are some disagreements and descrepencies. "Discussing" this matter with a group such as yourselves is quite revealing. The tactics used by your little cabal are right out of an East German disinfo-propaganda manual. Geobels & Marcus Wolfe would be proud of all of you buffoons....Thanks
 
Oh yes, I forgot "Skeptic" who said:"Except the Jews of course. Then again, since you don't consider them human...."

I have made a total of 14 posts here so far. They are ALL right here on this thread in black and white letters....Show me ONE statement that reconciles your idiotic accusation that I don't consider Jewish people human....I have lived in Los Angeles for 45 years. I have been eating breakfast at Canters Deli on Fairfax at least once a week for 35yrs...I have many close friends that are Jews. I have worked, played, and enjoyed the company of people of all races and religions my whole life. Many of the Jews I know agree with me totally regarding zionism.
Edited by Professor Yaffle: 
Edited for incivility


Please remember your Membership Agreement and remain civil and polite
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Professor Yaffle
 
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Look what came out of the woodwork? 9/11-investigator finally has a friend join him from stormfront! Yay. Or is it really 9/11-investigator's 2nd personality?

jmh423, this discussion has gone on for 45 pages now. Your accusations and little propaganda ploys come directly from these poorly constructed conspiracy websites. This drivel has already been posted ages ago, been categorically proven to be false, the true agenda of those making these false conspiracies exposed whereby the usual backpeddling of 'I have Jewish friends, I eat at a kosher deli, I love everybody, kumbaya' etc. tactic and the like been used to excess. Did I miss anything?

Give it a rest.
 
You guys are all a real hoot!!

Headscratcher calls me "neo-nazi scum"....Which of my words lead you to say I am "neo-nazi scum"? In reality, you couldn't be further from the truth. Hollow accusation with absolutely nothing to back it up. I am against all forms of tyranny against any and all groups of people....I always have been and always will be. You are no doubt a LIAR.

Dudalb calls me a "holocaust denier"......(that's a funny total BS zio-term, like Judeo-Christian or anti-semite)

Vermonter intimates that I am against ALL Jews....."except teh jooooz"

Simon says that Zundel got a real fair shake.....(This was a kangaroo trial if there ever was one) Read both sides of the story, muse boy...I read some of the transcripts. "Right out of USSR justice system"....It would be comical if it wasn't true and such a travesty. The wall came down and the whole country has become East Germany...

Same old non responsive accusatory tactics....

And of course EVERY one of you knuckleheads avoids reading or commenting on the essay of anti-zionist Jewish American Jack Bernstein who like so many other Jews has tried to shed some light on the difference between Zionism, which is a ruthless racist political ideology like Communism, Fascism, or White Supremicism..... and Judaism which is a religion that stresses ETHICS & MORALS....

Again, I have read very little of both sides regarding the actual evidence of how many Jews were killed or by what means, however I do know that there are some disagreements and descrepencies. "Discussing" this matter with a group such as yourselves is quite revealing. The tactics used by your little cabal are right out of an East German disinfo-propaganda manual. Geobels & Marcus Wolfe would be proud of all of you buffoons....Thanks

A neo-nazi holocaust denier calling other people knuckleheads?
 
I have not done any real investigation of the holocaustone, I'm not sure who's telling the truth. I heard they changed the number they claimed were killed at Auchwitz from 4 million to 1 million. Is that true?...If so, did they reconcile the numbers to get back to 6 million? I don't know, can anyone enlighten me on that one? However the FACT that they are locking people up for questioning the official line in Germany makes me tend to believe that those promoting the official line have much to hide. The truth does not fear investigation. Also, I would like to see an equal or greater amount of holocaust museums dedicated to the 50 million Russian Christians who were systematically murdered by a predominately Jewish politburo during the Lenin-Trotsky-Stalin era...Couldn't we all learn something from this also?...Who was in charge of the cold blooded murder of Czar Nickolas and his family? These should also be household names along with Hitler, Himmler, Geobels...Let's expose ALL the mass murderers, not just the gentiles. Is it "anti-semetic" to point out murder and thievery by Jews? Help me on this one please...It is my understanding that the Russian Revolution & the Nazi war machine were funded out of New York & London by the major banking houses, who then cleaned up by loaning money to both sides of the two world wars that were fought. If some of those bankers happened to be Jewish, is it anti-semetic to call them down on their chicanery? Just wondering. You can't be too careful these days. In the end, I am in favor of exposing ALL tyrants, murderers, theives, usurers, war profiteers and gangsters no matter whether they go to church on Sunday, or to Temple on Saturday...Your thoughts and comments are welcomed. Thanks

This is why you are NeoNazi scum. Your orginal ... "I don't know much about it..." post is chock-full of all of the little neo-Nazi talking points from across the web. Your approach is not only not very original, your alleged questions have been repeatedly addressed throughout this thread and demolished -- only to be ignored (typically).

Finally as to your wonderful sounding assertion: "I am in favor of exposing ALL tyrants, murderers, theives, usurers, war profiteers and gangsters no matter whether they go to church on Sunday, or to Temple on Saturday" it is obviously a dodge for hiding your real beliefs. You are not, because there is a vast, overwhelming mountain of evidence of the fact of Nazi attrocity, horror and terror, but your post indicates you want the starting point for your proving your intollerance of evil to be: what if the Nazi's weren't that bad? And you want to use that, essentially, to get to the point that if the Nazi's weren't that bad, than the Jews who lie about the Nazi's must be that bad or worse.

It is, what the IDers and Creationist on the relidious side, call a "wedge" strategy. State that you are only interested in truth. Find a minor detail that you can hoist supposed doubt on, and use that as a wedge to "bring down" the entire "house of cards." It is not only intellectually bankrupt it is an ongoing insult to the millions -- including millions of non Jews -- who were murdered by the Nazis.

In short, you can't start out claiming to love truth and hate totalitarian evil and, in the face of over 60 years of accumulated evidence, than try to suggest that maybe things weren't as evil as we think.

I repeat it: you are a NeoNazi, and proud of it, so your attempt at an "argument" is meaningless, especially as you yourself say you don't know much about the topic. Ultimately, how can I tell? Look at your first sentence: "I have not done any real investigation of the holocaust." So, rather than do "research" or educate yourself, as so many here have done, you align yourself with the holocaust denier. What it shows is that you come with a mind already made up, in spite of your protestations to the contrary, which says to me that you've been spending your reserach time on the deniers websites instead of in the library.
 
Look what came out of the woodwork? 9/11-investigator finally has a friend join him from stormfront! Yay. Or is it really 9/11-investigator's 2nd personality?

jmh423, this discussion has gone on for 45 pages now. Your accusations and little propaganda ploys come directly from these poorly constructed conspiracy websites. This drivel has already been posted ages ago, been categorically proven to be false, the true agenda of those making these false conspiracies exposed whereby the usual backpeddling of 'I have Jewish friends, I eat at a kosher deli, I love everybody, kumbaya' etc. tactic and the like been used to excess. Did I miss anything?

Give it a rest.

Honestly, what else do you say to an accusation like that? You label everyone who disagrees with you as an anti-Semite--a rational response when you're dealing with Holocaust deniers, yes, but not to honest accusations of human rights abuses by the Israeli military. Your instinctive response to any and all criticism is to hurl swastikas at your detractors and hope they stick--and when people like jmnwhateverthehellhisnameis goosestep right into the barrage with armbands pre-affixed, it strengthens your confirmation bias. Get some new tactics, or let more rational people deal with these ********.
 
I don't understand what alleged and real abuses by the Israeli military and government have to do with the holocaust. I note that every holocaust denier I've ever seen -- and anti-semite -- want one way or another to bring in the abuses of the Israeli government against palistinians into the argument about the holocaust.

What is the connection? The holcaust and the other horrors of WWII were part of the policy and plan of the Nazi government of Germany from 1932 till 1945. The overwhelming historical record that establishes Nazi responsibility for the systematic murder of Jews and the other murders of Poles, Slavs, Croats, Russians, Greeks, Rumanians, Albanian, Italians, French, Dutch, Norwegians, Letts, Lats, Estonians, Slovaks, Hungarians, Gypsies, etc. is a record of Nazi policy.

Yet, someone is always bringing up the Israeli policy in the occupied territory and, somehow, that policy and its many manifest problems and even wrongs are somehow supposed eitehr produce doubt about the existense of the holocaust or require condemnation not because they are wrong in and of themselves -- and the kind of wrong that most world government commit at one point or another -- but are wrong because, drum roll, the "holocaust" allows the West and others to turn a blind eye to Israeli abuses -- Iran's president being the current leading advocate of this theory.

It is horsepucky. The Israeli government is responsible for Israeli actions. They can only be fully discussed or understood in terms of Israel and its relationship to its neighbors as well as the internal politics of Israel, its allies and its enemies.

Similarly, the holocaust is about Nazi Germany and its responsiblity for the historically documented fact of their systematic murder of Jews and the additional murder of other "lesser" humans across Europe.

I suspect that Skeptic and I, for example, would have a whole host of disagreements about Israel, US policy toward Israel and the way forward in the Middle East. But I am in complete agreement with him when it comes to the holocaust and calling out the overt and closet anti-semites who overtly and covertly use holocaust denile as a tool for both lying about the Nazi German state but also to blame-shift just about everything they think is wrong with the world today to Jews.

All of which is to say that so-called honest accusations of Israeli military/policy/government abuses (regardless of how well founded or accurate) have no place here. That they are brought up by denires or by their sock-puppets as somehow relevent to the historical accuracy of the holocaust is a side show specifically endeavoring to sneak their anti-semetic and thus neo-Nazi drivl into the conversation.

It seems to me there are other places to debate Israel, Palistine, etc. But bringing up alleged or even real abuses of the Israeli government in a thred about holocaust denile can only be to further an anti-semitic/neo-Nazi agenda. I can say this because the best, greatest proof of the holocaust isn't in the testimony of surviving Jews, it is in the stated, recorded and writen policies, photographs, documents of the Nazi German government. If no Jew, Russian, Slav, U.S. liberating trooper, etc. ever talked about the holocaust, if there were no trials and no confessions or rationalizations in an effort to escape responsibility, the records of the Nazi German government would still stand as best and greatest unassalable proof of its existence.

The only way you ultimately can deny the holocaust is not by claiming that the Jews and Allied governments sonehow and for some reason lied about it, is to also believe that the Germans lied about it and created a vast record of documentation, archetictual plans, speeches and photographs all designed to take prideful credit for a policy they didn't execute. That strikes me as silly beyond all measure.
 
Honestly, what else do you say to an accusation like that? You label everyone who disagrees with you as an anti-Semite--a rational response when you're dealing with Holocaust deniers, yes, but not to honest accusations of human rights abuses by the Israeli military. Your instinctive response to any and all criticism is to hurl swastikas at your detractors and hope they stick--and when people like jmnwhateverthehellhisnameis goosestep right into the barrage with armbands pre-affixed, it strengthens your confirmation bias. Get some new tactics, or let more rational people deal with these ********.
Pfft. Really? You honestly believe that? I accuse those who make anti-semitic statements (by definition) as anti-semites. No need to play the victim card again. Once I see an honest accusation against the IDF and have a serious argument about it, rather than ridiculous statements you've made thus far (mostly in other threads), then I have no problem arguing the points. (As headscratcher4 put it, its simply a deflection putting this in another thread when it is argued in other threads already) Until then, cheerio!
 
Dudalb calls me a "holocaust denier"......(that's a funny total BS zio-term, like Judeo-Christian or anti-semite)

That's an interesting sentence we have here...
First of all, it begs the question: 'What is so BS about labelling somebody "Holocaust denier" or "Judeo-Christian" of "Anti-semite"?
Then; what does 'Zio-term' means? I have never seen this written before. It seems related to Zion or zionism... That'd imply that 'the Jews' are controlling culture (our mainstream media) enough to create term to suit their (obviously nefarious) purposes. Seems like the usual anti-semitic conspiracy theory.
Also, the use of this term seems to imply that everybody believing in the holocaust is a shrill for the 'vast Jewish conspiracy'. See point above.
Finally; what is so wrong about the concept of Judeo-Christianism that it makes its way into your list of total BS terms? Is sounds like the instinctive visceral reaction a 'proud white Christian' would have to see his religious heritage associated to Judaism.

So; to summarize, it really seems to me like the anti-Semitism is seeping through from under your neutral façade...



I don't understand what alleged and real abuses by the Israeli military and government have to do with the holocaust. I note that every holocaust denier I've ever seen -- and anti-semite -- want one way or another to bring in the abuses of the Israeli government against palistinians into the argument about the holocaust

That's probably a reference to that other thread we have going on; 'The Jews were the original middle-Eastern terrorists' (it also seems started as anti-Semite apologetics but has evolved into a discussion of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict) they have been some veiled implications of anti-Semitism thrown in.
 
Trojan wrote:"Deniers are scum, I do not believe they should be prosecuted for their idiocy -- just shunned by society as the nuts they are"...In response to my thoughtful post...

Another well written intelligent response...As a native of Pittsburgh...suffice it to say that it appears that since I left in '64 the IQ level of the old "burgh' has plumetted...You guys are a riot!! Thanks


Is there a point at which we can expect you to provide some sort of evidence to disprove history?
 
Dudalb calls me a "holocaust denier"......(that's a funny total BS zio-term, like Judeo-Christian or anti-semite)

r u suggesting there is no such thing as anti-Semitism..or an anti-Semite?

its all made up?

no one really hates the Jews? the Jews are responsible for and deserve all bad treatment they get?
 
That's probably a reference to that other thread we have going on; 'The Jews were the original middle-Eastern terrorists' (it also seems started as anti-Semite apologetics but has evolved into a discussion of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict) they have been some veiled implications of anti-Semitism thrown in.


Understood...but it is also part of the pattern in these exersizes in denile therapy with neo-Nazis. For example, our other new friend, JMH423, as I pointed out, enters into the discussion talking about his own lack of knowledge regarding the holocaust, but he wants to make sure we all understand that though he lacks knowledge he:

"would like to see an equal or greater amount of holocaust museums dedicated to the 50 million Russian Christians who were systematically murdered by a predominately Jewish politburo during the Lenin-Trotsky-Stalin era..."

Key words, of course, "predominately Jewish". Nice touch. See, Jewish Communist kill orthodox Russian christians (drink their blood?), so therefore, its really terrible. Certainly its as bad as the holocaust. The world ignores it. Read: its ok when Jews do it, but a holcaust when it is done to Jews -- i.e. payback.

Now, like Israeli crimes or aledged crimes, what do Stalin's crimes or Lenin's crimes -- and they are manifest and horrible and if you read any of my posts you know I condemn the murderous communists and the 160 + million deaths they are responsible for (see Black Book of Communism, among others) -- but what does it have to do with expressed and acted-on Nazi policy specifically targeting Jews? Better still, how does even the allegation that the politburo was "predominately Jewish" justify or equate to the murder of Jewish/Polish and Jewish/Ukranian peasants?

THe whole object is to get that Jewish politburo into the equation so that we will understand:

a). It didn't happen.
b). If it did happen, it wasn't anywhere near as terrible as alleged;
c). If it did happen and was terrible, other historical incidents are equatable, so whats the big deal? and,
d). If it did happen and it was as terrible as the facts all show, the Jews -- as the manipulators of international communism (one of the Nazi's own favorite themes) -- brought it on themselves.
 
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