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9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

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According to this site Krege used this equipment:

http://www.geomodel.com/

There is no doubt that this equipment should put all controversies behind us regarding whether or not 870,000 people were buried, dug up en reburied again. --> Almost near the bottom explicit references are made to identify grave locations.

Tellingly, as far as I know, nobody repeated this simple test.
 
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According to this site Krege used this equipment:

http://www.geomodel.com/

There is no doubt that this equipment should put all controversies behind us regarding whether or not 870,000 people were buried, dug up en reburied again. --> Almost near the bottom explicit references are made to identify grave locations.

Tellingly, as far as I know, nobody repeated this simple test.

What logical fallacy applies when you use one unproven hypothesis to prove another unproven hypothesis?

NAFCASH is a fraud -- Greg Gerdes does not have the money and will never pay it out. Anything nafcash states is second hand information, based on news reports and half quotes from Krege.

Second, how and why would anyone repeat Krege's test when he has NEVER PUBLISHED his test??

It should also be pointed out that identifing graves is not the same as identifying cremated remains that have been largely turned to ash.

Keep chasing your tail, this is amusing.
 
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I operate in these high level somewhat multicultural environments without any problem (Holland and Europe are still much less of a desaster areas as compared to the US where 44% of the pupils in school are now of non-European origin).

We're all of non-European origin, apart from Africans.

When you consider the racial "origins" of any particular country it all depends on the starting point in time that you choose. What's your choice?
 
We're all of non-European origin, apart from Africans.

When you consider the racial "origins" of any particular country it all depends on the starting point in time that you choose. What's your choice?

100, 1000, 10000 years? Take your pick.

Look at your own hands while you type... your watching at stardust of billions of years old.

Whats your point? Why should I want to destroy a societal fabric grown over the centuries in a matter of decades? Why should I run the risk of my children having to fight a Yugoslav style war just because third world hordes have set their eyes on our territory, supported by a hand full of Washington Jews so they can have their NWO and fulfill their Talmudic dreams?

No way.

The Jews designed and implemented communism. It failed.

Multiculturalism same story. Nobody will talk about it after 2020 at the latest. Another type of social engineering biting the dust.

The world is running out of energy fast. That alone will kill globalism and hence mass immigration. Prepare for a life in your small town in fly-over-country with people of your own kind.
 
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why would anyone repeat Krege's test when he has NEVER PUBLISHED his test??

Who needs Krege's unpublished results to at least repeat his splendid idea?

It should also be pointed out that identifing graves is not the same as identifying cremated remains that have been largely turned to ash.

May be you are not as smart as I thought you are since nobody talked about finding remains. Krege claimed that the earth he scanned was undisturbed. This simply means that nobody in recent history ever dug a mass grave there as holocaust orthodoxy wants to have it.

So why doesn't Deborah Lipstadt hire an experienced Mexican undocumented lawn mower and travels together with him to Treblinka and repeats Krege's tests. He only has to walk grass mower style over the terrain and store the results in this on board computer. He only should not forget to switch the thing on, that's all. We can do the interpretation stuff for Deborah and come up with a nice scientific report according to the layman standards of our Trojan friend here (New Roman type font, at least 100 pages and a minimum of 5 'scientific' graphs and 20 footnotes plus a stamp of approval from Deborah's office).

Piece of cake.
 
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Who needs Krege's unpublished results to at least repeat his splendid idea?

The world does not wait for some denier to utter an absurd statement --- Krege is unpublished and unverified, therefore the need to repeat something that is not defined is not needed.


May be you are not as smart as I thought you are.

You amaze me with your stupidity at every turn.

Krege claimed that the earth he scanned was undisturbed. This simply means that nobody in recent history ever dug a mass grave there as holocaust orthodoxy wants to have it.

No, it means Krege did not scan in the correct place or could not understand the scans he made -- if he ever did any experiments. The idea that the earth would be undisturbed is absurd -- this is Poland not Antarctica. The land was farmed AFTER the camp was destroyed. There are even aerial photos of the farming activity!


So why doesn't Deborah Lipstadt hire an experienced Mexican undocumented lawn mower and travels together with him to Treblinka and repeats Krege's tests. He only has to walk grass mower style over the terrain and store the results in this on board computer. He only should not forget to switch the thing on, that's all. We can do the interpretation stuff for Deborah and come up with a nice scientific report according to the layman standards of our Trojan friend here (New Roman type font, at least 100 pages and a minimum of 5 'scientific' graphs and 20 footnotes plus a stamp of approval from Deborah's office).

Piece of cake.

Are you actually this stupid or are you just afraid to admit Krege's a charlatan?

Again, the world historical, archaeological and scientific community does not move and react on the basis of youtube videos and news article in a revisionist rag.

If he published his paper in a peer reviewed journal you may have an argument, its impossible to debunk an undefined claim.
 
The world does not wait for some denier to utter an absurd statement --- Krege is unpublished and unverified, therefore the need to repeat something that is not defined is not needed.

You could for the first time score a major point against the revisionists if you could locate your alledged mass grave. Or are you afraid of something? :D

No, it means Krege did not scan in the correct place or could not understand the scans he made -- if he ever did any experiments.

We have his video as a reasonalbe proof that he did indeed carry out these tests:

http://www.codoh.com/video/treblinka.mpg

The idea that the earth would be undisturbed is absurd -- this is Poland not Antarctica.

Why is that absurd? You make it sound as if every square acre in Europe contains a mass grave at some point in history.

The land was farmed AFTER the camp was destroyed. There are even aerial photos of the farming activity!

Do you have proof of that? Show us the pictures. Why would the Soviets allow this monument of Nazi bestiality be used as farmland?

But even if you can show us the pictures, farming means 'scratching the surface', not digging holes of 3 meters deep.

are you just afraid to admit Krege's a charlatan?

Why would he be a charlatan? He is an educated engineer. I don't know about your professional competencies (Dialectic materialism? Teacher at a Frankfurt School of Social Research?) but I doubt that your competencies outshine Krege's in this particular field of historic grass mowing.

If he published his paper in a peer reviewed journal you may have an argument, its impossible to debunk an undefined claim.

I am sorry that you were not on is list of people to send his CD's to. And the reason that he did not publish his results could have something to do with the medieval repressive climate in Australia. After all, this Adelaide Institute chap Toben has to go to jail for his opinions. Maybe Krege is somewhat reluctant to give Australian judges a pretext to throw him in the dungeon as well.
 
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I would accepts Polish records of 1930 of the number of Polish citizens, yes. Netherlands likewise. Because the government simply had to count the number of records in their birth certificate registry. No such central registry existed for 'International Jewry' before (or after) 1948, the state of Israel obviously not included.

Poland knew EXACTLY how many Jews they have before WW2 (3.3 million) and after WW2 (300,000).

so there. that's 3 million Jewish deaths right there.
 
You could for the first time score a major point against the revisionists if you could locate your alledged mass grave. Or are you afraid of something? :D

I do not live in Europe, nor do I know how to operate and interpret a GPR devise.


We have his video as a reasonalbe proof that he did indeed carry out these tests:

http://www.codoh.com/video/treblinka.mpg

Oh, video, please use this map of Treblinka and tell us what he scanned, how he made the scans, Krege's qualifications to perform the scans and his qualifications to interpret the scans.

http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/MAPS/maptreb.HTM


Why is that absurd? You make it sound as if every square acre in Europe contains a mass grave at some point in history.

Because the camp was farmed! Farming disturbs the soil. :rolleyes:

Do you have proof of that? Show us the pictures. Why would the Soviets allow this monument of Nazi bestiality be used as farmland?

The Germans had it farmed -- please go educate yourself before returning to this discussion.

But even if you can show us the pictures, farming means 'scratching the surface', not digging holes of 3 meters deep.

Farming means the soil is disturbed, Krege found undisturbed soil.





Why would he be a charlatan? He is an educated engineer. I don't know about your professional competencies (Dialectic materialism? Teacher at a Frankfurt School of Social Research?) but I doubt that your competencies outshine Krege's in this particular field of historic grass mowing.

Because he allows himself to be promoted as an expert in a discipline he has not shown he is qualified in -- just as he has promised a published report for 10 years but has not produced it.

And I have not professed to have proficiency in this discipline.


I am sorry that you were not on is list of people to send his CD's to. And the reason that he did not publish his results could have something to do with the medieval repressive climate in Australia. After all, this Adelaide Institute chap Toben has to go to jail for his opinions. Maybe Krege is somewhat reluctant to give Australian judges a pretext to throw him in the dungeon as well.

He's afraid now? Is that your excuse? If so, please provide some public statement in which he has expressed reluctance to publish for fear of prosecution or such.

You can start your research with this

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=50516&postcount=1
 
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Well, possibly my last answer to this thread:

I suggest all interested parties read The Reconstruction of Treblinka by Alex Bay about the whole Treblinka affair. Judging from that there are a few possible answers to the Krege rubbish: either he analysed the wrong area or he deliberately misrepresented his findings.
Why do I come to this conclusions?
There is photographic evidence for the mass graves, both aerial and from the ground level. (Which clearly shows the area to have pretty sandy soil).
Today the area of the mass graves is covered by the memorial to the killed Jews and has been since the early sixties of the past century. Link
So I wonder: how did Krege manage to use his device on an area that is a) at least partially covered by a monument b) has been at least worked for the erection of said monument and c) according to Krege is still absolutely natural? ;)

We also have another nazi commenting on Treblinka, SS-Sergeant Franz Suchomel decribes it thus:
"Treblinka was a primitive but efficient production line of death. Understand? Primitive, yes. But it worked well, that production line of death."
as interviewed via hidden camera for the movie Shoah.

There is also this article by John Zimmermann about the reliability of the Hoess memoirs. If he was forced to write, why did his torturers allow him to write that he was beaten and made drunk? Seems like a big oversight. ;)
 
9/11 investigator's "logic" is very simple: since the holocaust never happened, all the witnesses must be lying and all the documentation must be fake. But how do we know the holocaust never happened? Well, why believe liars and faked documents?

The amazing thing is, this moron actually thinks he's "defeating" us in the argument when he's having his ass handed to him on a platter, thinly sliced -- as every single one of his "sources" is shown to be some loony without the least credibility.

The black knight, of Monty Python fame, has nothing on this guy.
 
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Hey, Investigator, would you be so kind as to remind Skeptic here of what a brainwashed little Zionist stooge I am? He seems to think I'm one of you guys now that I'm taking a break from debating you and begun scrapping with your counterparts on the Pro-Israel side. Thanks in advance, dahling.
 
I was fervently pro-America (Jimmy Hendrix, Woodstock, Apollo and stuff) and I often had an argument with my father. And I was even fervently pro-Israel/Jews.

After 2000, with the advent of the internet, when I was regularly working abroad (amongst others Germany), during the workweek at night in the Intercontinental, I started reading articles on the internet, about 9/11, the holocaust, the causes of WW1/WW2, multiculturalism, Kevin MacDonald and I started to revise my traditional liberal opinions.

OMG, an old hippie who thinks he got wiser, while only replacing his old fringe views for another fringe belief.
it figures...
 
This ground penetrating radar equipment is routinely used by geo-physicists.

Yes, and I know how to work one.

You can discern a rat buried in 2 meters depth with it. You cannot miss ground disturbances from a mass grave that allegedly harbored 870,000 people.

Debunked.

Well on these specific details concerning other people's incorrect interpretations of Krege's work I have this to say. First of all, no you can't discern a rat that has been buried for decades in the soil.

Also, concerning undisturbed soil. What parameters and extents are given for the tool? Let's start with the fact that no soil at Treblinka is "undisturbed" (periglacial area, plus some 15 centuries of farming). You can only use that term very loosely, colloquially in comparison to more obvious forms of recent excavated soil.
Here's a scan caught by a GPR:
2trench1.jpg
Please notice that the top soil above the trenches are quickly evened and smoothened, since the upper portions of soil structuralize and evens up a lot faster than deeper sections of soil disturbence, especially if the top soil has been farmed after the trenches were made.

In the scan that Nafcash showed (forget the link), the scan had similar banding in the upper part and wavey white and polychrome areas here and there in lower sections. Now, if the former scan (the one linked to above) is a not too unreasonable guide it would obviously appear that the uppermost couple of meters in the nafcash scan might actually represent backfilled, compacted fill.
And, as a curiosa, a standard technique with the GPR would be to first excavate a couple of trenches, to maybe 1,5 metres in depth. That's what they oft do in the normal archeological fields actually. Besides, we know they had excavators at Treblinka during the early -40's.

Of course, this doesn't mean that bodies were buried there. It does however imply that portions of the ground were excavated for whatever reason, which is enough to put down your claims for now pertaining to Krege's report.
And, on the matter of Nafcash's odd challenges, finding the collective ashes (if it's correct that in -43 the corpses were dug up, burned and then had the ashes mixed with the soil) of 8,700 people (let alone 870 000) after some 65 years in the soil is always impossible.

So, with the combination of the depths of polychrome-areas aligned with very little soil/untouched/long since disturbed white-waves together with the above thick layers of classical 101 landscaped/excavated areals, it's safer to say that it is in fact disturbed soil.
Now for there to be a more clear take on possible trenches, there would need to be a patch-work done you see? Because the soil was landscaped, farmed, excavated and chewed six ways from sunday, most areas would look very much alike. Hence the need for the common patch-work is even greater. Naturally, the pits would have been several metres deeper than the average plowing done there, however there were such possible disturbances in the scan as which hinted on slightly narrow but v-shaped past excavations. If the scan was done on a pit's narrow side (for argument's sake) then it would hypothetically show this, or if it (the scan) had just grazed on the end of one of the pits, it would have shown this albeit less notably.

You do several series of ground probing scans and the align them next to each other for a better and enormously more exact overall-look on the qualities and quantities of the disturbances.
However a single scan, obviously showing soil disturbance, isn't enough out of a much larger landscaped, excavated area, which this soil in the scan is only a small patch of. Ergo the obvious necessity of a patch-work to see if there are anomolies, trench-forms appearing from a patched perspective to even get that basic affirmation down to the T, which still would not amount to direct proof of or against the burial of bodies there. Wise up "Investigator", you can't argue your way out of this hole, so stop digging.
 
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Reading through the early part of this thread, 9/11-investigator's behavior is spamming and trolling, not discussion. He made an accusation, it was answered, he completely ignored the answering post, twice, and continued to make the accusation.
 
It seems to me that if the gassings really happened then rock-solid forensic evidence would have emerged by now.

I've read some stories of hack-cocked investigators who went to the famous concentration camps looking for forensic evidence and coming up empty handed, but the failure of an investigator proves nothing. Some of them were even looking in the wrong rooms, or so I heard. (Some of the gas chamber rooms are reconstructions, a fact that the holocaust skeptics love to emphasize, although that argument is utterly spurious.)

What I am confused about, is where this stands today. Surely a competent research team has investigated this from that angle to lay the matter to rest once and for all. The found the forensic evidence, and even though it's 60+ years old it's a smoking gun that that settles the issue in any sane person's mind. Or haven't they?

Some people would sum me up an a "disguised anti-semite" just by the way that I've worded this question. Nothing could be further should the truth (should I play the "I'm Jewish myself card? Aw, it doesn't work, then I just get labeled a self-hating Jew.)

As a genuine skeptic I look at this subject with no opinion, just a desire for more information. Some of you might mock the idea of a "Holocaust Skeptic" just as much as you'd mock a "Flat Earth Skeptic" but I don't think that comparison can really be made. True, perhaps I'm woefully ignorant on the subject. Fair enough--educate me. Or at least point me to a URL that can promise that.
 
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Forensic evidence would be required if other evidence is lacking.

In this case, we have:

  • Eyewitness testimony, both from survivors and liberating troops
  • Photographic evidence
  • Population data
  • Confessions
and more. However, this is dismissed as fabrication and conspiracy by the deniers.

Faced with this evidence, it is difficult to say that any forensic data (should it be gathered) would be treated with anything other than equal contempt, hence negating the only reason for gathering it in the first place.

Skeptics are such because they question opinions and evidence. However, a good way to spot denialism the refuse to change a preconceived notion, based on evidence supplied. If a claim is made, and then refuted, you will very rarely find a denier stating "OK, I was wrong" - you will more commonly be given a new claim to distract from the previous one.

Another is the need for an overarching conspiracy to explain the mountain of "fabricated" evidence. Flat-earthers claim that NASA covers up the true shape of the Earth with fake photographs, some Creationists believe that the scientific institutions of the world hide the evidence that the world was created 6000 years ago, and Holocaust deniers... well, you can read this thread just as well as I can.

As for URLs, I will defer to those who know more about the topic. Or you could search through this thread, but you will have to sift through a mountain of ill-conceived and hate-filled rantings, which I don't have the stomach for.
 
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