9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[Uninvolved]

Where did da missing Jews go?

You are intellectually not up to this discussion. You don't even realize what is being discussed.

 

[Simon39759]

So where are these Jewish, brown, black and yellow doctors, scientists and engineers? Probably discussing the holocaust in some affirmative action social program.

Yes, sure.
I mean, it's not like the 'expert' presenting the project on Siemens very own press release is named Sven Lubinski.
Lubinski... What a fine aryan sounding name...


Of course, your whole premise seems to forget how Japan is the world third leading Nation in term of Research -it was second until a few years ago; how China's research is the fastest growing one. Not bad for the 'yellow' people.
In term of scientific growth, China is quickly followed by India and Pakistan... Iran is doing great too, albeit starting from lower.

But, yes, the US, you know this zionized multi-cultural decadent U.S? Yes, they still have a strong lead. The next one would be the equally decadent U.K.


Damn these facts that get in the way of perfectly constructed and deeply cherished racist fantasies! Damn them!

 

[9/11-investigator]

You are intellectually not up to this discussion. You don't even realize what is being discussed.

Parky has admitted that by throwing in the towel (post 22)!

He knows he can't win this and now runs away as fast as he can.

What a pleasant sight! But so quick. I was prepared to go all the way, discussing his population statistics and all the camps and so forth.

But Parky, who had no moral problem debating me for 30 pages in this thread in a more or less civilized manner, is suddenly chickening out. Lack of self-confidence if you ask me. Or rather has a intuition of what is in store for him. And he doesn't like it.

Sensible decision. Now probably nobody wants to debate me, like no orthodox holocaustian ever debates a revisionist because they constantly lose.

So my fellow Europeans either in Europe or America, the way is open for us to protect our civilization against those who want to destroy it. Let's do it and enjoy every minute of the coming battle!

 

[Uninvolved]

Some people beg to differ

I would be very cautious in using that page in any subject, except when demonstrating how truth, lies and plain rubbish can be mixed for demagogic purposes.

Only one example:

On November 7, 1938, the Polish Jew, Herschel Grynszpan, murdered the German Secretary of State, Ernst von Rath, in Paris

Ernst von Rath was "Gesandtschaftsrat I. Klasse" in the Embassy. To understand the level of that function: Hitler promoted von Rath to the "First Secretary of the Embassy" (free translation of "Botschaftssekretär I. Klasse"); this was three levels higher than von Rath's former position.

Or:

The Weimar government was forced upon the German nation

etc.

The Dictats of Versailles and Trianon were shames without any such "enhancement". Liars are the enemies of a cause, not the supporters.

 

[Simon39759]

Protecting European civilization and culture sounds good.

I'll start by kicking in the nuts the Nazis that try to rape it.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Yes, sure.
I mean, it's not like the 'expert' presenting the project on Siemens very own press release is named Sven Lubinski.
Lubinski... What a fine aryan sounding name...

Sven is an Aryan name alright, maybe his father was Jewish buth that doesn't make him a Jew according to jewish laws. Or he is of Polish descent. Who knows.But it seams that you are already impressed of a guy who is doing the press releases is Jewish.

Simon says:

Of course, your whole premise seems to forget how Japan is the world third leading Nation in term of Research -it was second until a few years ago; how China's research is the fastest growing one. Not bad for the 'yellow' people.
In term of scientific growth, China is quickly followed by India and Pakistan... Iran is doing great too, albeit starting from lower.

Uhh, Simon, it doesn't matter how many people are busy in research. It is far more interesting how many results these researchers are achieving and how the are transformed into real world products that people want to buy. And than all over sudden the UK looks miserably:


Latest export figures:

Country........Export....(population base)
------------------------------------------------
1. Germany....1500B $............. (80M)
2. China........1430B..............(1300M)
3. US - 1300B.........................(400M)
4. Japan - 782B......................(150M)
5. Netherlands - 634B...............(16M)

But, yes, the US, you know this zionized multi-cultural decadent U.S? Yes, they still have a strong lead. The next one would be the equally decadent U.K.

Maybe in number of researchers (mainly in 'defense'), but not in the results in a Darwinian environment like world markets.

Damn these facts that get in the way of perfectly constructed and deeply cherished racist fantasies! Damn them!

A simple addition shows that Germany + Holland (2 fine 'Aryan' nations) with only 96M people lead the rest of the pack by a street length.

I am curious what Simon's response is going to be on this one.

 

[Uninvolved]

Country........Export....(population base)
------------------------------------------------
1. Germany....1500B $............. (80M)
2. China........1430B..............(1300M)
3. US - 1300B.........................(400M)
4. Japan - 782B......................(150M)
5. Netherlands - 634B...............(16M)

A simple addition shows that Germany + Holland (2 fine 'Aryan' nations) with only 96M people lead the rest of the pack by a street length.

One of these fine Aryan nations (the one, which published the numbers you posted) does not take reality too seriously. The population of the USA is 307 million and that of Japan is 127 million (both estimated for July 2009). Should one bother to verify the other numbers?

 

[ddt]

Here a recent item in the largest Dutch newspaper saying that more than 50% of the young Maroccan invaders under 24 year in Rotterdam are criminal and have a police record.

It says 55% of Moroccan youngsters were suspected of a crime, not that they were criminals.

For your information: the PVV of Geert Wilders (for whom I voted) is since the last EU-elections the largest party in the Netherlands. The PVV is solid against third world immigration.

As if that signifies something. Less than 35% voted in the EU elections. I predict he does very bad at the next elections.

 

[Toke]

Sven is an Aryan name alright

Bull, it is an adaption from svein/swine and can be/were used as name or as a term for journeyman, farmhand, man, city council employee, and more.
It just shows how important the pig were in scandinavian households.

The aryan were some prehistoric indoeuropean tribe that happened to fit nazi propaganda purposes because facial features of graves were the best fit to the german population.

Any and all peoples, tribes, and nations through history have made up some BS to explain why they happen to be the master race and should somehow have special rights and/or get to treat somebody else as subhumans.

I am not sure if nazism were that unique in going for blond and blue eyed, fictional heroes of the 30's were that type.

 

[9/11-investigator]

One of these fine Aryan nations (the one, which published the numbers you posted) does not take reality too seriously. The population of the USA is 307 million and that of Japan is 127 million (both estimated for July 2009). Should one bother to verify the other numbers?

The publication doesn't mention population numbers, I cited them out of the top of my head. The 400 million was a typo, I knew it was 300M, the Japan number is 15% missing the target, but that does not change my point in the slightest. The export numbers are from the WTO as you can see for yourself.

 

[9/11-investigator]

It says 55% of Moroccan youngsters were suspected of a crime, not that they were criminals.


As if that signifies something. Less than 35% voted in the EU elections. I predict he does very bad at the next elections.

That's what you hope. Fortuyn was able to collect 26 seats (more than 20%) during national elections as a corpse with a very high turnout (he was murdered by a Dutch lefty 14 days before the elections). The problems have been increasing ever since. These seats are still 'in the market'.

{totally off-topic}

 

[Matthew Cline]

The Allies would only have engaged in the above mentioned (alleged) massive frame-up if the Nazi's hadn't engaged in the Holocaust, since there'd be no reason for them to frame the Nazis for something they'd already done.

You mean you are a thief, and there is no reason to prove it, because you are a thief?

What I meant was that if, (as it happened in reality) the Nazis committed the Holocaust:

1) The Allies would have had no need to fabricate any evidence.

2) The Allies would have had no need to coerce the Nazis into confessing to things they never did.

Wait. Out of all the eyewitness accounts, the accounts of two people are the most important, and all the other eyewitnesses have hardly any evidentiary value?

I agree, this would be equivalent to saying, that Holocaust denial has been proven as baseless, because Irving was/is a liar, and who would make such connection, right?

I don't think that anyone in this thread has said that (and anyone outside this thread who has said such is indeed being illogical). As far as I can remember, what has been said in this thread about the trial is:

1) Deborah Lipstadt provided the historical evidence of the Holocaust.

2) David Irving fared poorly when on the stand.

3) The judge agreed that the historical evidence proved the Holocaust happened.

What about reliable eyewitnesses?

If you consider having testified at the Nuremberg trials to have irreparably tainted any witnesses brought forth there, then Nuremberg's thoroughness would mean that there aren't that many remaining witnesses who would satisfy you. I suppose that, if I put some effort into it, I might be able to dig up biographies/memoirs of some death camp survivors who never testified at any trials, but I rather doubt that you'd consider that to be valid evidence.

Someone in another thread gave a possible thought process for deniers who truly believe the Holocaust didn't happen: they think "if the Holocaust happened then the Jews are victims, but the Jews can't be victims because they're the Villains, so the Holocaust didn't happen"

This must be delicious. Do you mind showing naming the thread and post #?

I can't exactly remember. I think it is was in a thread involving the user named Galileo, but I'm not positive about that.

A similar/variant thought process would be "the Jews control the world, and people who control the world wouldn't allow 6 million of their own to be murdered, so it didn't happen".

I just love it, when some people are making up arguments for their opponents and successfully refute them. I guess you are satisfied with yourself.

It wasn't meant as (and isn't) a refutation of any argument, but merely speculation as to why some people believe what they do, a side issue to the matter of proof.

 

[Toke]

Nazism aside there are real problems getting Turkish, Pakistani, African and Arab immigrants and their descendants to adapt to European countries.
I fear it will take several more generations to change from their original cultures to the adopted one, and in the meantime we will have a problem.

 

[Matthew Cline]

Please give me a list of all the Nazis who testified at the NMT that the 6 million holocaust happened.

I don't think that any of the Nazis who testified said anything about the numbers. They gave details about how they had intentionally and systematically killed Jews. The numbers are a matter for historians.

Or do you want a list of the Nazis who admitted to participating in the intentional and systematic killing of Jews? A list of all those who said "I was only following orders"?

Matthew, I am not going to address all the issues you raised about Sarkozy and all the other non-holocaust related stuff. This thread is growing too big already.

Would you be willing to start a new thread on your views of the Jews and the Jewish Conspiracy?

 

[Thunder]

Protecting European civilization and culture sounds good.

I'll start by kicking in the nuts the Nazis that try to rape it.

one cannot strike something..that is not there.

 

[ddt]

That's what you hope. Fortuyn was able to collect 26 seats (more than 20%) during national elections as a corpse with a very high turnout (he was murdered by a Dutch lefty 14 days before the elections). The problems have been increasing ever since. These seats are still 'in the market'.

It would help if the PVV would stand in the next elections. As it happens, those are the Municipal Elections, and the PVV only stands in the Hague and Almere (source). I predict, though, too, that the PVV will only place one member as candidate for the next national elections.

 

[Uzzy]

I wonder how you mean this "ignoring the facts".

From the post #1210 below:

Which facts have been ignored here?

The German High Command wanted a scapegoat, namely the Jews. Once they discovered that actually, a high proportion of German Jews were in the military, in the frontline and shedding their blood for Germany, they ignored that fact and continued to blame the Jews for their lack of patriotism. This certainly helped with how the idea of the stab in the back from Jews enmasse gained traction in Germany after the war. Jews were blamed throughout the war for not aiding Germany fully in the war, as they made a convenient scapegoat for those in power who didn't want to admit to the mistakes they made.

The facts that were ignored were those uncovered in the Judenzahlung, when the German High Command learnt that Jews were signing up in record numbers to fight for Germany.

 

[Skeptic]

1. classifying people in "Holocaust accepters" and "Holocaust deniers", Have such accounts ever undergone thorough examination, like Irving's claim, in a real court (I mean [ni]not[/i] in the Kangorooh court called IMT)?

Oh, Hi there, 9/11-investigator. What's the matter? Too many folks put you on ignore so you had to change the screen name?

Funny that you mention David Irving. He went to court to try and prove, in effect at least, that the holocaust didn't happen. Failed miserably, showed himself to be an idiot neo-nazi Jew-hating liar.

Let me guess: that, too, was a "Kangorooh court", right (you'd think the folks who are so big on claiming all those trials are "kangaroo courts" would know how to spell kangaroo, but then again, we are dealing with neo-Nazis here...)

Just like, er, every other court that, for some strange reason, sees the holocaust happened just because of overwhelming evidence.

Then again, perhaps by a real court you mean something like Freisler's "People's Court", or those wonderful German courts in the 1930s which makes clear obeying the Nuremberg laws are done as planned.

You know, the kind of courts where evidence doesn't matter and the only thing that does matter is to blame the Jews.

 

[Uninvolved]

What I meant was that if, (as it happened in reality) the Nazis committed the Holocaust:

1) The Allies would have had no need to fabricate any evidence.

2) The Allies would have had no need to coerce the Nazis into confessing to things they never did.

Well, the Allies found it necessary to fabricate evidence in many cases. For example they found it necessary to torture Hoess until he admitted to have killed 2.5 million people (mostly Jews), while another 0.5 million perished otherwise, in Auschwitz, until end of 1943. The Allies found it necessary to fabricate evidence for the Gleiwitz case, for a conspiracy to subdue the world, etc.

1) Deborah Lipstadt provided the historical evidence of the Holocaust.

2) David Irving fared poorly when on the stand.

3) The judge agreed that the historical evidence proved the Holocaust happened

You ignored my plea:

Do you mind posting the defininitions of Holocaust you are using for

1. classifying people in "Holocaust accepters" and "Holocaust deniers",

2. supporting the reality of Holocaust?

If you consider having testified at the Nuremberg trials to have irreparably tainted any witnesses brought forth there

I am very cautious to accept testimony coming from a process, which could not be described as "legal" in any country in the world, not even in Rwanda.

I suppose that, if I put some effort into it, I might be able to dig up biographies/memoirs of some death camp survivors who never testified at any trials

I did not ask for anything like that; having given testimony earlier at the IMT is not necessary a negative. What I am asking for is verifyable testimony; this excludes many evidences given at the IMT.

I wonder that you don't suggest Rudolf Vrba; may it be, that you don't know that he is the very top witness, he was "there", he saw everything with his own eyes? (Though Wiesel claims the same...)

Btw, do you happen to have read Denying history by Shermer and Grobman?

I rather doubt that you'd consider that to be valid evidence

On what do you base this doubt? Is questioning something enough for you to insinuate ignorance towards facts?

 

[Uninvolved]

Oh, Hi there, 9/11-investigator. What's the matter? Too many folks put you on ignore so you had to change the screen name?

Edited by Gaspode: 

Edited for Rule 12

As per rule 12, attack the argument, not the arguer.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode