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9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

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I was amazed myself to learn that the Wannsee Protokolls were 'found' by Kempner. Therefore it is worthwhile to digg a bit further on this gentleman:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Nuremberg/NUREMBERG.pdf

Robert Max Wasili Kempner, born in Freiburg on October 17, 1899, was a thoroughly embittered and rather nasty piece of work.

Returning now to Nuremberg in 1945, Kempner swore revenge – revenge at any price. In doing so he put behind him the strict ethics by which he had been brought up in the law in Weimar, Germany. Preparing the prosecution case, he frequently resorted to threats and coercion to get witnesses to change or withdraw inconvenient evidence...

In the files there is also a memorandum from Colonel Telford Taylor warning Kempner that he was not to promise inmates early release as an inducement during interrogation.

Kempner’s behaviour with evidence was also highly questionable. He would later turn up in German foreign ministry files the original Copy No. 16 of the Wannsee Protocol, and bestow upon it a wholly undeserved reputation as a key document in the Final Solution of the Jewish problem – despite the aura which now surrounds it, the document contains no explicit reference to the killing of Jews. Mysteriously, a second ostensibly original ‘Copy No. 16’ of this document, complete with GEHEIME KOMMANDOSACHE rubber stamps, began to circulate, whose existence naturally cast doubt upon the authenticity of the first. :D

Not only did the R.H.S.A., the agency supposedly originating the document, use the civilian classification GEHEIME REICHSSACHE on its documents, but the statistics contained in the document bore little relation either to each other or to reality. Moreover one would assume that the R.S.H.A. would have possessed at least one typewriter furnished with the special SS-runes key used by all the other S.S. offices; yet the document manifested no such runes.*

There is further evidence of skulduggery in the documents collected by Kempner’s office on the Final Solution. The Nuremberg document experts routinely produced ‘staff evidence analysis sheets’ on the documents that came into their hands, indicating where they were found, and which individuals were mentioned or incriminated by them.
The sheet on document 4055–PS, a photostat of parts of the German ministry of the interior file on the Final Solution, shows that when first analysed by the experts it contained four important items relating to discussions on definitions of Jews; one of these four documents,
originating in the spring of 1942, showed Staatssekretär Franz Schlegelberger informing his staff at the justice ministry that Dr Hans Lammers, chief of the Reich chancellery, had phoned to inform him that the Führer, Adolf Hitler, had ‘repeatedly’ ordered the solution of
the Jewish problem ‘postponed until after the war was over.’ This did not suit Kempner at all, and when the file was returned to the document centre this particular photostat was missing.

Another high-ranking Nazi, Dr Wilhelm Stuckart, would later succeed in turning the tables on Kempner: hinting in 1947 that he had incriminating evidence against him, a pre-war document stored safely away, he would bring Kempner, who was by then prosecuting in his own right at the subsequent war crimes proceedings, to his knees.
Stuckart, it must be stated, had attended the Wannsee Conference in his capacity as Staatssekretär in the ministry of the interior. Nonetheless, when he was indicted in the ‘Wilhelmstrasse trial,’ Stuckart boasted to his fellow inmates at Nuremberg that he was going to walk – and
walk he did, sentenced to the time already served ‘in view of his failing health.’ Two years after the trial, Allen Dulles would reveal to the Jacksons that Kempner, by now working for some far-left group in Germany, was trying to extort information from various Germans in an attempt to blackmail both him and his brother John Foster Dulles,
the secretary of state; in exchange for such ‘testimony’ Kempner had released a certain war criminal suspect, said Dulles. Allen Dulles was by then chief of the new C.I.A.
 
More on this Kempner character:

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p167_Weberb.html

The testimony of the prosecution's chief witness in the Nuremberg "Wilhelmstrasse" trial was obtained by threat of death. The American defense attorney, Warren Magee, had somehow obtained the transcript of the first pretrial interrogation of Friedrich Gaus, a former senior official in the German Foreign Office. Despite frantic protests by prosecuting attorney Robert Kempner, the judge decided to permit Magee to read from the document. During the pretrial interrogation session, Kempner told Gaus that he would be turned over to the Soviets for hanging. Tearfully pleading for mercy, Gaus begged Kempner to think of his wife and children. Kempner replied that he could save himself only by testifying in court against his former colleagues. A desperate Gaus, who had already endured four weeks in solitary confinement, agreed. When Magee finished reading from the damning transcript, Gaus sat with both hands to his face, totally devastated. (note 81)

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n4p19_Butz.html

The man in charge, who held the power of life and death over Wagner and von Thadden, was Robert M.W. Kempner, a German Jew and naturalized US citizen. Kempner had been an anti-Nazi prosecutor in Prussia before Hitler came to power. In Hoax, I related a perjury trial in the US, almost simultaneous with the Nuremberg trials, in which the defense successfully attacked the testimony of a prosecution witness, Baron Herbert von Strempel, as coerced while he was incarcerated in Germany and under Kempner's power.[note 4] In the Nuremberg trials themselves,it was shown that Kempner had threatened to turn potential witnesses over to the Soviets if they did not cooperate.
 
This is an interesting article:

http://vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/10/2/Nordling195-209.html

Here is a smart Swedish demographer and statistician who carried out a test that everyone can reproduce: take your copy of the Encyklopædia Judaica, select everyone who:
1) was born between 1860-1909
2) did not emigrate until Jan 1, 1938
3) was still living on Jan 1, 1939
4) lived in Nazi occupied Europe

And next find out what happened to these 722 people.

Only 8% of these people died in Eastern European concentration camps.

Mind you, this 8% also includes dying from disease and could even make out the full 8%.

These findings are statistically completely incompatible with the traditional story.
 
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This is an interesting article:

http://vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/10/2/Nordling195-209.html

Here is a smart Swedish demographer and statistician who carried out a test that everyone can reproduce: take your copy of the Encyklopædia Judaica, select everyone who:
1) was born between 1860-1909
2) did not emigrate until Jan 1, 1938
3) was still living on Jan 1, 1939
4) lived in Nazi occupied Europe

And next find out what happened to these 722 people.

Only 8% of these people died in Eastern European concentration camps.

Mind you, this 8% also includes dying from disease and could even make out the full 8%.

These findings are statistically completely incompatible with the traditional story.

Why yes, thank you. I would like an omelette right about now.
 
No they haven't. They have a database where everybody can add names and report them as missing. Most of my friends from highschool are likewise 'missing', I have no idea where they are and I very likely will not ever see them again, but that does not mean they are dead. That database is not serious, nobody is checking it and then you get situations like this:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/05/04/Holocaust_victims.html


The 3 million estimate takes into account potential duplications. Further, these are not just "names," documentary evidence is attached to each record, and the database is organized by names on documents, so a search for one unique name mentioned in four different documents will return four records concerning the same person. Irving jumped to a wholly unjustified conclusion merely because it supported his Denial argument, and you mindlessly parroted him for the same reason. Fail.

If I had an axe to grind with the Germans (and many Jews have for obvious reasons) I could simply make up names and add them to the database.


No. One can't simply "make up names" and add them. A one-page form with information about both the victim and the informant must be filled out. If a significant number of these were faked, this could be easily determined by cross-checking other records.

But most important: missing is not equal dead/murdered.


You have previously made the claim that most of the "missing" Jews simply lost touch with each other after the war and emigrated to different countries. Do you seriously believe that survivors did not attempt to contact "missing" loved ones??

From September 1, 1944 through September 27, 1946, the German-language newspaper Aufbau, published in New York City, printed numerous lists of Jewish Holocaust survivors located in Europe, as well as a few lists of victims.

These lists, which include 33,557 names . . .


(Source)
 
You have previously made the claim that most of the "missing" Jews simply lost touch with each other after the war and emigrated to different countries. Do you seriously believe that survivors did not attempt to contact "missing" loved ones??

Of course not. But attempting and succeeding are two different things altogether.

Again, I know the International Red Cross professionally from the inside as an advisory consultant. They have anno 2000 easily accessible online computer systems with millions of refugees and millions of missing people. Only a few thousand of them ever find each other back. How much more difficult do you think it was to find somebody back in 1945?
 
DresdenI.bmp


This is the kind of forensic evidence almost completely lacking in the case of the holocaust.

(And please spare me the Belsen pictures of the thousands of corpses of people who died from typhus).
 
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Ah, he can no longer see what I'm writing?

Okay, a no-prize to anyone who can make him use the word 'bicycles' in a holocaust denial.
 
Ah Dresden, where 18,000 died?

Make that 130,000

http://www.fpp.co.uk/docs/Irving/RadDi/2009/240409.html

AS THE day draws on I come across a document which I only half-suspected I might ever find. In 1961, when I was writing my first book "The Destruction of Dresden", I was confidentially approached by a German schoolteacher, Hanns Voigt; he said that after the horrific British air raid, he was put in charge of Dresden's Missing Persons Bureau, Abteilung Tote - the Deceased Section. He built an immense card index, and he kept a diary; and he estimated for me that the final death toll in Dresden would have reached 135,000. This was the figure that I, and after me Kurt Vonnegut and others, always used.

I was not invited to make any submissions to the Dresden Commission. No surprises there. This afternoon, my quiet patience is rewarded. I have come across this new secret document, signed by the police chief of Dresden, and decoded by the British some weeks after the war
.

1945_03_24decode_600.jpg


Even the "hundred thousand" figure for those reported missing must be an under-estimate. There were over half a million homeless refugees in the streets of Dresden, fleeing the Red Army siege of Breslau to the East. Whole refugee families must have been engulfed by the Dresden holocaust, with nobody surviving to report them as "missing".

Another thing seems brutally clear: those listed as "missing" -- in addition to those bodies formally identified and buried or incinerated by this date -- were never going to return. To use the words of the telegram I found yesterday (see above) they were dead, "carbonised," and unidentifiable
.

It seems you posted a picture of some ruins, interesting. So what's the difference between that and this?

You initially identified these 'some ruins' (a town in reality) correctly. So what's you're picture supposed to represent, your datscha in New Orleans, 1 month after Kathrina?

Or do you just ignore the mountain of forensic evidence that does exist?

We are now in page 36 and I am still waiting for merely a molehill of evidence, in vain, as was to be expected.
 
As I pointed out earlier (something you either ignored or just didn't understand), the city of Dresden herself commissioned a large panel of independent historians to research the numbers that died during the bombing. They identified 18,000 victims, and estimated that the numbers could not be any higher then 25,000, and probably closer to 20,000. Source.

Of course, the City of Dresden is far less reliable on these matters then Irving, so clearly he's correct here.

The picture I showed you was of one of the Auschwitz Gas Chambers, something that should have been obvious. The mountains of evidence can be found not only in the physical remains of the camps, but in the Nuremberg Public Record. The Nazis weren't convicted on rumour and hearsay, you know. The men tried at Nuremberg never tried to deny what they did, but some, like Hoss, even admitted it and tried to ask for forgiveness.
 
Yad Vashem has the names of at least 3 million Jewish Holocaust victims. But I guess they are part of the evil Joo conspiracy!!!!!
 
The mountain of evidence of what?

Of the state sponsored, organised and systematic hunting down and extermination of Jews, Slavs, Romani, Disabled People, Homosexuals and others the Nazis deemed unfit for the Volksgemeinschaft.
 
Of the state sponsored, organised and systematic hunting down and extermination of Jews, Slavs, Romani, Disabled People, Homosexuals and others the Nazis deemed unfit for the Volksgemeinschaft.


Hold on for a second. You wrote before:

The mountains of evidence can be found not only in the physical remains of the camps, but in the Nuremberg Public Record

I seriousy doubt, that "state sponsored", "organized", "systematic", or even "hunting down", "deemed unfit for the Volksgemeinschaft" is evidenced by the physical remains of the camps.

As I don't know what "Nuremberg Public Record" is, I stick to the part "physical remains of the camps". I wonder what you believe to be able to prove by those.
 
Hold on for a second. You wrote before:

The mountains of evidence can be found not only in the physical remains of the camps, but in the Nuremberg Public Record

I seriousy doubt, that "state sponsored", "organized", "systematic", or even "hunting down", "deemed unfit for the Volksgemeinschaft" is evidenced by the physical remains of the camps.

As I don't know what "Nuremberg Public Record" is, I stick to the part "physical remains of the camps". I wonder what you believe to be able to prove by those.

Wow, really? You want to be taken seriously in a debate about the Holocaust and you claim to not know what the Nuremberg Public Record is, or what I'm referring to by it? I am, of course, referring to the public record of files relating to the Nuremberg Trials, which you can find here and here.

Do disprove those, if you can.
 
Make that 130,000

AS THE day draws on I come across a document which I only half-suspected I might ever find. In 1961, when I was writing my first book "The Destruction of Dresden", I was confidentially approached by a German schoolteacher, Hanns Voigt; he said that after the horrific British air raid, he was put in charge of Dresden's Missing Persons Bureau, Abteilung Tote - the Deceased Section. He built an immense card index, and he kept a diary; and he estimated for me that the final death toll in Dresden would have reached 135,000. This was the figure that I, and after me Kurt Vonnegut and others, always used.

I was not invited to make any submissions to the Dresden Commission. No surprises there. This afternoon, my quiet patience is rewarded. I have come across this new secret document, signed by the police chief of Dresden, and decoded by the British some weeks after the war
.

Even the "hundred thousand" figure for those reported missing must be an under-estimate. There were over half a million homeless refugees in the streets of Dresden, fleeing the Red Army siege of Breslau to the East. Whole refugee families must have been engulfed by the Dresden holocaust, with nobody surviving to report them as "missing".

Another thing seems brutally clear: those listed as "missing" -- in addition to those bodies formally identified and buried or incinerated by this date -- were never going to return. To use the words of the telegram I found yesterday (see above) they were dead, "carbonised," and unidentifiable
.



You initially identified these 'some ruins' (a town in reality) correctly. So what's you're picture supposed to represent, your datscha in New Orleans, 1 month after Kathrina?



We are now in page 36 and I am still waiting for merely a molehill of evidence, in vain, as was to be expected.

It strikes me as tragically funny that you're more then happy accept that those 100.000 reported missing in Dresden, as being killed in the bombing raid; while on the other hand maintaining that those millions of Jews that have been reported missing during WW2 have simply migrated to a destination unknown.
 
Wow, really? You want to be taken seriously in a debate about the Holocaust and you claim to not know what the Nuremberg Public Record is, or what I'm referring to by it? I am, of course, referring to the public record of files relating to the Nuremberg Trials, which you can find here and here.

Do disprove those, if you can.


I suspected this, but I was hoping that you can come up with something better. Anyway,

1. The IMT processes are an everlasting shame for "justice". I do not say, that everything is false, but so much has been disproven, that everything needs to be re-analyzed before using it.

Only one example, relating the current topic: the making soap from the bodies of Jews in the camps was "proven" in Nuremberg and recorded as such, just like four million victims in Auschwitz.

2. I still don't see, what you think the camp ruines prove.
 
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