9/11 Commission records unsealed

[ref]

I found the second Rodriguez pages! They're just more (handwritten) interview notes. See them here.

Thanks Mike. My apologies to Mr. Rodriguez. In the notes he does mention that he thinks he heard something being moved on floor 34.

To do Willie justice, I have tried to transcribe the interviewers notes to the best of my ability. Everybody feel free to fill in the blanks or the parts I missed or interpreted wrong.

Mr. Rodriguez.

Maintainance of N Tower stairwell all 3 stairwells.

Master key T-2.
Bldg has 5 master keys.
... ...

... ...
PA Police
Has key

33FL supply closet to basement A pun. bldg ...
Super Anthony Saltamacchia talking on B-1 level when he heard an explosion thought was a generator in basement. Then another large explosion ... collapsed wall cracked. 14 people in office. Male entered office he was burnt. He was by elevator when fire ball exploded and burnt him. Skin hanging off arms hands, and feet.

1993 in express elevator for 3 hours.

Felipe David 33% body burnt. Go outside towards Vesey St. put him in ambulance. Security guard radio heard a plane hit bldg.

Ran into bldg took radio from security guard. Saw a ... security guard... she took him back at bottom.

Employee entrance for Marriott Hotel female security guard would not leave her post.

Saw XXX from cleaning crew did not know about explosion.

Got to OCC ... window. No one inside...

Back towards bldg 1 (NT).

2 people stuck B2+B3 level in elevator. Find steel pipe used to ping door open look down elevator too far down. Find electrician ladder and put down shaft and free 2 people. Painter xxx deliver person name xxx. Took them to ambulance. Back into bldg ... on B-1 level this is bad plane hit bldg he ask for key to lobby to B staircase w/ ... group of FF. Staircase full of people to 3 floor. Further to A staircase going up. He opens doors. A lot of people did not know how to find staircase. He is going faster that FF who had equipment. For 3 floor above them hear screams of people trapped in elevator.

20th floor person in wheelchair 27FL having problems. Told FF. FF collapse on floor of 27th floor. Heard on radio XXX got out of bldg ... John XXX shut off radio. Then to 33 floor on C staircase no one in elevator. ... dust ... from supply closet. 34FL construction floor heard something being moved. to 35 floor then 36 floor. He continues up in B stairwell to 39FL. Find fire chief gets ... down. He hears upper floor collapsed. Back to 27 floor man in wheelchair now in rescue basket. 3 guys stood up ... basket down B staircase. Bldg shaking ... On 18 floor ST collapses fell down. XXX - XXX. Got to lobby put person down in floor 3 more FF run towards them.

But there is nothing indicating, that Willie thought there was anything suspicious or "inside jobby" going on. There is talk about a fire ball, no mention of bombs, heard something on 34th floor but does not emphasize that at all, etc.

This is very much his original old story. The one he had in the beginning.

 

[MikeW]

Nice, nice. I wonder what Griffin's reaction to that will be. Oh wait, I know that already. It says the times may not be reliable, so they can easily ignore it.

Well, it says they need to understand how reliable the times are, which is a different thing. Of course that won't bother Griffin - you're probably quite right!

And if the Rodriguez comments are going to continue much longer, please take them to a new thread & link to it from here. (I'm not saying "don't comment on anything" - this isn't just for me - just don't crowd out the thread topic altogether. If there's more than a page worth of arguing to be done, take it to another thread & post a link to it here.)

 

[ref]

Well, it says they need to understand how reliable the times are, which is a different thing.

to truthers it's exactly the same thing

 

[beachnut]

They're quite difficult to decipher but I don't see anything inconsistent with Rodriguez's later testimony. He reports an explosion that he thought might be a generator in the basement. Then he heard another explosion that cracked the ceilings and walls.

I know you guys love to pile on and fire up a good ol’ fashioned witch hunt, but you should pay much closer attention to the specifics of Rodriguez's testimony. I don't think the people trapped and screaming in the elevator would use the crude language being used here to describe Rodriguez, the guy who finds a very long electrician's ladder, sends it down the elevator shaft (the freight elevator has an open roof), to free several people, all at great risk to his own life. This is just one example of how he was able to save people that day. I wonder how many people here would have had the presence of mind to accomplish what he did in a very short amount of time.

You never stop to say you were wrong. You are wrong again. Just keep posting junk. You proved again no explosives and you don't even know why.

Posting your opinions will get you the shallow research award like the rest of 911Truth no evidence after 7 years.

 

[MikeW]

The reported Mineta PEOC arrival time of 10:07 is taken from an email by the 9/11 Commission's Dana Hyde. This contains something for truthers, in that she's complaining about the difficulty of extracting any information from the White House, given the conditions imposed on them. Hyde also reports on the mysterious lack of recall by just about everyone involved, and wonders about the reliability of some logs. Which is where the Mineta comment comes in.

The argument against this document will be that even Hyde is wondering whether the logs can be trusted, then. Presumably we'll also hear speculation that the time has been invented to discredit Mineta, even though 10:07 as an arrival time is actually more consistent with his entire testimony (his memory of events, not the times he assigns them) than 9:20.

The argument in favour is that this is just a moment in time. Ultimately the Commission would conclude that Cheney reached the PEOC at 9:58, just as the log said, and so it's reasonable to assume they eventually accepted the Mineta time, too.

The main problem here is that this is second hand information, a report of what the log said, rather than the log itself. Still, this is the very first indication of Mineta's arrival time from an official document, and that's a big step forward.

Download the full Hyde email at this page.

This email was taken from the Team 8 folder for the Commission's Daniel Marcus. I'm copying entire folders, not just cherry-picking bits, so I've put that up as well. It contains another couple of emails and memos and you can find it here.

 

[MikeW]

Something I don't think I've posted anywhere is how I discovered things like the Rodriguez testimony in the first place...? Anyway, the secret is to check the Finding Aid, a list of all the Commission documents NARA have categorised so far (not just the MFRs they've put online). It's well worth a look, just to see what else might turn up eventually, but be aware that the most interesting things (videos, CDs, all the multimedia records) aren't yet available. They've not even started to go through them yet & I expect they won't be accessible to the public until 2010-2011.

 

[funk de fino]

The reported Mineta PEOC arrival time of 10:07 is taken from an email by the 9/11 Commission's Dana Hyde. This contains something for truthers, in that she's complaining about the difficulty of extracting any information from the White House, given the conditions imposed on them. Hyde also reports on the mysterious lack of recall by just about everyone involved, and wonders about the reliability of some logs. Which is where the Mineta comment comes in.

The argument against this document will be that even Hyde is wondering whether the logs can be trusted, then. Presumably we'll also hear speculation that the time has been invented to discredit Mineta, even though 10:07 as an arrival time is actually more consistent with his entire testimony (his memory of events, not the times he assigns them) than 9:20.

The argument in favour is that this is just a moment in time. Ultimately the Commission would conclude that Cheney reached the PEOC at 9:58, just as the log said, and so it's reasonable to assume they eventually accepted the Mineta time, too.

The main problem here is that this is second hand information, a report of what the log said, rather than the log itself. Still, this is the very first indication of Mineta's arrival time from an official document, and that's a big step forward.

Download the full Hyde email at this page.

This email was taken from the Team 8 folder for the Commission's Daniel Marcus. I'm copying entire folders, not just cherry-picking bits, so I've put that up as well. It contains another couple of emails and memos and you can find it here.

I think that regardless of the exact timing it is clear that Mineta arrives in the shelter after Cheney which debunks most of the 911TM claims.

Good stuff MikeW

 

[Pardalis]

They're quite difficult to decipher but I don't see anything inconsistent with Rodriguez's later testimony. He reports an explosion that he thought might be a generator in the basement. Then he heard another explosion that cracked the ceilings and walls.

He also talks about an earthquake, was there an earthquake that day?

 

[DGM]

I'm unaware of any time that Rodriguez has claimed that 9/11 was an Inside Job. If you have a link to such a reference, please post it. Also, Rodriguez never claims to know the origin of the explosions he experienced. The crux of his testimony is that the first explosion occurred below him in a sub basement level before the N. Tower is struck by the airplane.

RedI:
Just for once why don't you "man-up" and say "OK I was wrong" (or a simple "thanks for the correction")then you can go on. Willy clearly changed his tune. Now the question is, Why? (We probably will never know the answer to this).

 

[T.A.M.]

They're quite difficult to decipher but I don't see anything inconsistent with Rodriguez's later testimony. He reports an explosion that he thought might be a generator in the basement. Then he heard another explosion that cracked the ceilings and walls.

I know you guys love to pile on and fire up a good ol’ fashioned witch hunt, but you should pay much closer attention to the specifics of Rodriguez's testimony. I don't think the people trapped and screaming in the elevator would use the crude language being used here to describe Rodriguez, the guy who finds a very long electrician's ladder, sends it down the elevator shaft (the freight elevator has an open roof), to free several people, all at great risk to his own life. This is just one example of how he was able to save people that day. I wonder how many people here would have had the presence of mind to accomplish what he did in a very short amount of time.

Red:

Let's get something clear. Myself, and many here, have the greatest respect and admiration for what Mr. Rodriguez did on 9/11. He has since, however, made it clear (as Beachnut has shown, and I am sure could be proven further with a little more investigation) that he believe the govt was complicit in the attacks. This, to me, is rub of it.

What he has done in the past is worthy of praise, but it does not give him a free pass for everything else.

TAM

 

[RedIbis]

Red:

Let's get something clear. Myself, and many here, have the greatest respect and admiration for what Mr. Rodriguez did on 9/11. He has since, however, made it clear (as Beachnut has shown, and I am sure could be proven further with a little more investigation) that he believe the govt was complicit in the attacks. This, to me, is rub of it.

What he has done in the past is worthy of praise, but it does not give him a free pass for everything else.

TAM

Take it for what it's worth, and I'm sure you'll say it's not worth much but that's a lawsuit filed on Rodriguez's behalf by Philip Berg. Rodriguez severed that legal relationship sometime after the suit was filed, although I don't know why exactly, but I do know that Rodriguez was unhappy with the representation.

Call it what you want, but I'd like to see Rodriguez saying it himself. Perhaps he has, I've just noticed that he is careful to distance himself from conspiracy theories or that what he experienced were pre-planted explosives.

Not that I'd blame him if he did. Who the hell wouldn't wonder why his testimony and that of other eyewitnesses who corroborate his story wasn't taken seriously?

 

[LashL]

Rodriguez severed that legal relationship sometime after the suit was filed, although I don't know why exactly, but I do know that Rodriguez was unhappy with the representation.

Rodriguez didn't sever his relationship with Berg until Rodriguez's lawsuit was dismissed by the court in the summer of 2006.

Call it what you want, but I'd like to see Rodriguez saying it himself. Perhaps he has, I've just noticed that he is careful to distance himself from conspiracy theories or that what he experienced were pre-planted explosives.

Read Rodriguez's sworn affidavit of January 5, 2006. He certainly says that he thinks the U.S. government was complicit in the attacks.

 

[MikeW]

When Jeremy Glick called home on 9/11, he found wife Lyz with her parents. So while he spoke to her, his mother-in-law used her own cellphone to call 911 and report what was happening. This call was recorded, and one of the 9/11 Commission files I have contains the transcript.

The document is really a reminder as to what this is all about, then. There are small points relating to various 9/11 theories, like the near immediate explanation that this is an airphone call, not cellphone. But mostly it's a human story that traces the move from small hope - "they going to try and attack the people" - to horror - "...Lizzie who's vomiting. I mean she's in really bad shape" - and slow despair, as they keep asking if anyone can hear anything on the phone, any sign that Glick's come back victorious, but there's nothing at all.

This is the worst formatted transcript in the history of the world, and none of that's down to me - this is a straight copy of what I'm seeing here. Still, if you've not heard the story from this sad angle then I think it's worth a read. It's a 60-odd page PDF file and you can download it here.

 

[MikeW]

Ah, I forgot to point out a couple of things that the truthers might take from this.

The cover note from the tape says Glick's mother-in-law called at 9:20, which is before the hijack happened. It looks like a mistake because they also report Glick saying he'd been in the air for an hour (the plane took off at 8:42), and early on someone says "they just crashed one into the Pentagon", but truthers love their "anomalies" and this will be another one for the list.

Someone later says "there's not much of the World Trade Center left to crash into". This is before they're talking of the attacks, and will play to the argument that the first WTC collapse must have happened by now, so this contradicts the Commission timeline where this happened after the Flight 93 counter-attack begins, not before. (Sounds tenuous, I know, but there really are people who argue this.)

 

[Baylor]

What was the Commission's source of the call being at 9:20? Was it straight from the 911 dispatch tapes? I forgot what timzone the Glicks lived in, but it could be just a mistake of timzones. The call could've been at 10:20 eastern time, 9:20 central time. Or would that be too late?

ETA: If the call had taken place an hour into the flight at 9:42, the timeline would still be too early. The south tower didn't collapse for another 17 minutes, the pentagon had just been hit, but probably no reports yet.

ETA: ETA: 10:20 looks like a nice fit. South Tower collapsed. Pentagon struck. UA93 counter attack well underway.

 

[MikeW]

What was the Commission's source of the call being at 9:20? Was it straight from the 911 dispatch tapes? I forgot what timzone the Glicks lived in, but it could be just a mistake of timzones. The call could've been at 10:20 eastern time, 9:20 central time. Or would that be too late?

Sorry, the Commission didn't say the call was at 9:20, they place it around 20 minutes later. The 9:20 time is on the cover note for the tape & presumably comes from the police who received and recorded the call. (They were in Poughkeepsie, so presumably that's eastern time.)

 

[Baylor]

Hmm... weird.

 

[MikeW]

There's a History Commons piece on how the call "contradicts passenger revolt timing" if you want to see what people say about it. I address that particular issue on this page, but the call start time and possible collapse comment in the transcript will doubtless create a few more talking points.

 

[MikeW]

Hmm, looking at this again, it's the transcript that has the 9:20 time. I'd imagine this would be done locally, or at the New York/ Washington FBI offices so it should still be eastern time, but we can't guarantee that.

 

[Wildy]

The second page shows two of the hijackers check-in and boarding times for 9/11. Can anyone explain how these boarding times are derived? Or is there anything else that these codes tell us?

I can offer this observation from travelling recently.

Assuming that they haven't changed the system too much what they do now is when you go to board the plane you would hand your boarding pass to the attendant and then they would pass it though a machine that would say that you have boarded the plane. I guess that you would get the time from when you gave the pass to the attendant.

Hope this helps at all.

No clue about the codes though.