"5 stupid things about atheists"

[quadraginta]

True enough, but I don't think that properly defines the lives of most theists, either. It's a mere affectation, not an entire personality.

Are you suggesting that the current debates about abortion and gay marriage are mere affectations?

Seems like a lot of trouble to go to.

 

[Manopolus]

Are you suggesting that the current debates about abortion and gay marriage are mere affectations?

Seems like a lot of trouble to go to.

For the most part, yeah. There are a select few that are all worked up and stupid about it, but most of them just re-share graphics on Facebook and virtually nothing else. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but it's hardly a central factor in most people's lives. I think that most (admittedly not all) of those that actually make the effort to think about the problem much tend to be on the other side.

There's also plenty of Christians that support gay marriage, actually. The zealots sort of tend to define the religion because they're the ones that yell the loudest. I'd say it isn't much off of a 50/50 split if I had to guess. Yeah, there's a Biblical basis for gay hate, but there's also plenty of people willing to ignore those parts of the book.

 

[Noztradamus]

I'm not sure what constitutes a "new atheist" but I think in it's simplest way it just means that they are vocal about their opinion regarding religion

Recent converts are always annoyingly enthusiastic about their discovery

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

For the most part, yeah. There are a select few that are all worked up and stupid about it, but most of them just re-share graphics on Facebook and virtually nothing else. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but it's hardly a central factor in most people's lives. I think that most (admittedly not all) of those that actually make the effort to think about the problem much tend to be on the other side.

There's also plenty of Christians that support gay marriage, actually. The zealots sort of tend to define the religion because they're the ones that yell the loudest. I'd say it isn't much off of a 50/50 split if I had to guess. Yeah, there's a Biblical basis for gay hate, but there's also plenty of people willing to ignore those parts of the book.

On what evidence are you basing your conclusions?

 

[quadraginta]

For the most part, yeah. There are a select few that are all worked up and stupid about it, but most of them just re-share graphics on Facebook and virtually nothing else. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but it's hardly a central factor in most people's lives. I think that most (admittedly not all) of those that actually make the effort to think about the problem much tend to be on the other side.

<snip>

I'm guessing that you don't live in the South in the U.S.

If you do you need to get out more.

 

[Leumas]

I'm guessing that you don't live in the South in the U.S.

If you do you need to get out more.

Indeed... just like this

It is not just evangelical Christians.... it's also a lot of normal people in everyday life. They are noticeably and increasingly trying to shove Jesus down people's throats every opportunity they get .

For example (I just saw this) in things like graduation ceremonies in a state college where the speakers mention Jesus no less than 5 times... not just god... but Jesus ... and that is in addition to mentioning God numerous times.

But what raised my hackles was also the full fledged quotes from Matthew and Samuel and Judges giving the verse, chapter and book references.

This is a STATE college with citizens from all around the state.

Also it was not one speaker... it was three of them.

Blatant ... I think perhaps even deliberate... in your face JJeeSSus.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

Just trying to offer a little insight into why people might think we're a bunch of smug a-holes.

Well, they might think that for a lot of reasons. Personally, I'd rather deal with what people say they think rather than musing about what they might think. Most religions aren't very tolerant, so I'm not surprised that when somebody disagrees they're going to dismiss them as a "smug a-hole". In fact, if all they do is throw some insults at me, that's getting off pretty easy. In some cultures, being an atheist could get me executed.

 

[Biscuit]

First off, I would love to see the figures comparing the percentage of atheists who think they are better than believers and the percentages of believers who think they are better than atheists.

Second, while I do not consider myself better than believers in general, I think I am better than the 25ish percent of Americans who disapprove of atheists serving on the U.S. Supreme Court. I have no desire to limit believers' civil rights, why should I accept their desire to limit mine?

I was just summing up the video, not my personal beliefs. I hate it when people post a video and don't offer a decent summary. Some people can't watch videos at work.

As an atheist I think I am better than the 40 some percent of Americans who believe in angels.

I thought it was funny, in a grim way, when Romney supporters were saying it had it so tough being a Mormon in politics. I want to know what these same people would say about an atheist president.

 

[Manopolus]

I'm guessing that you don't live in the South in the U.S.

If you do you need to get out more.

Even worse... I live in the center. Home of gun nutty, immigrant hating, victim blaming, chauvanists. Nearly everyone around me, including family, is a rural conservative Christian that seemingly puts a high value on their own ignorance. Yeah, they toe the FOX News party line, but it isn't really a central part of their lives. They continue to hold their views precisely because it isn't. They'll find an excuse to expose their idiocy if you push them, but it's hardly a central factor in their lives. It's really more a matter of showing what "team" they're on, I think... quite a lot like the way they would stick up for their favorite sports team.

In work, they greatly fear being outed as "lazy" so they do everything they can to peg just about anyone else with that term, and especially go after those that don't reciprocate. They don't see the recent events with the racial riots in the same terms as someone who actually knows a black person or two. They hear the term "white privelege" as reverse racism... even though they'll complain about police misconduct as much as any given inner-city black man if it isn't phrased as pertaining to race. Any attempt to get religion out of government is instead seen as an attack on Christianity.

So... yeah, I know "these people" well. I grew up around it and am surrounded by it now. It is not all that they are by any stretch. They also live lives that aren't particularly separable from anyone else's outside of these odd affectations. Most of them are perfectly reasonable people in all things until you hit their blind spots. Ultimately, their greatest fear tends to be getting identified as an outsider amongst their own peer group. I'd say that's the primary driver. However, they hold virtually nothing else in common, and some of them, if encouraged, actually will go against the grain (usually temporarily, unfortunately) if given the right sort of encouragement.

I live in the same state that contains Westboro Baptist Church. However, most of the populace doesn't particularly approve of the way they draw attention to themselves even when they might -- offhandedly, and with little thought -- sort of have the same attitude towards homosexuality. Strangely enough, I think the greatest thing that many of them hold in common is a fear of being noticed for being different themselves. That's also the greatest threat possible to your well-being out here where the population is sparse. There isn't a separate peer group you can belong to out here -- there's just EVERYONE or isolation.

 

[Leumas]

Even worse... I live in the center. Home of gun nutty, immigrant hating, victim blaming, chauvanists. Nearly everyone around me, including family, is a rural conservative Christian that seemingly puts a high value on their own ignorance. Yeah, they toe the FOX News party line, but it isn't really a central part of their lives. They continue to hold their views precisely because it isn't. They'll find an excuse to expose their idiocy if you push them, but it's hardly a central factor in their lives. It's really more a matter of showing what "team" they're on, I think... quite a lot like the way they would stick up for their favorite sports team.

In work, they greatly fear being outed as "lazy" so they do everything they can to peg just about anyone else with that term, and especially go after those that don't reciprocate. They don't see the recent events with the racial riots in the same terms as someone who actually knows a black person or two. They hear the term "white privelege" as reverse racism... even though they'll complain about police misconduct as much as any given inner-city black man if it isn't phrased as pertaining to race. Any attempt to get religion out of government is instead seen as an attack on Christianity.

So... yeah, I know "these people" well. I grew up around it and am surrounded by it now. It is not all that they are by any stretch. They also live lives that aren't particularly separable from anyone else's outside of these odd affectations. Most of them are perfectly reasonable people in all things until you hit their blind spots. Ultimately, their greatest fear tends to be getting identified as an outsider amongst their own peer group. I'd say that's the primary driver. However, they hold virtually nothing else in common, and some of them, if encouraged, actually will go against the grain (usually temporarily, unfortunately) if given the right sort of encouragement.

I live in the same state that contains Westboro Baptist Church.

In other words these are the people who constitute the sugary nourishment in the Petri Dish (see The Petri Dish Effect)

These are the people that contribute to and vote for people like George Bush.

Their religions and prejudices are not a harmless sports team support nor an inconsequential affectation.

Their decisions and actions FACILITATE and SUPPORT the people who pass laws that make the lives of people a misery whether in America or around the world.

They might be sweet simpletons who are as passive as sheep.

But these sheep MATTER in that they form the backbone of the WOLVES that have RAVISHED the WORLD.

While these people are living their benighted lives, the people they helped bring in power because of their religions and prejudices, do stuff like this to other people around the world

NSFW - shocking and awful

A similar kind of Petri Dish effect took place also in another society of benighted nice sheep not so very long ago.

 

[Manopolus]

In other words...

Well, I didn't say that these things aren't damaging. I merely said that the main problem is that it isn't something that they consider to be all that important... and thus something that they'd rather just not think about -- instead giving the knee-jerk reaction of "team" solidarity. One of the best arguments that actually work with some people is to point out Christian churches which are quite the opposite of the fundie-administered stereotype. There actually aren't very many Evangelists around here, but when a political entity says "Christian" what they really tend to mean is Evangelists (or conservative Catholics, which we do have around here... though not quite as many as we do mainline protestants).

Some of the Northeastern versions of The Baptist Church are a great example of Christian groups which don't agree with much of what's being portrayed in the public discussion as "Christian" in the generalized sense.

Someone asked for evidence. Well, here's some pertaining to this discussion:

http://baptistnews.com/opinion/colu...us-freedom-used-to-mean#.VTAn_oBa0_g.facebook

As a matter of fact, The Baptist Church in (Rhode Island, I think? -- somewhere in the northeast) is often credited as the impetus for the separation of church and state at the very beginning. According to their beliefs, free choice is extremely important in matters of faith. The idea was that it is heresy to follow a religion because of social expedience.

Unfortunately, there's plenty of Baptists around here that don't appreciate their own history (Lutherans are the most common religious group locally though). That's sort of what you get when you've got one of your main political parties hijacking religious loyalties (and vice versa) for popularity. Not only does the government get worse, but the religion does, too.

The thing is, if the churches are anything like mine was growing up, these aren't even things they're hearing from the churches -- at least not locally -- it's coming from popular media and politicians. Evangeli$m is what you hear most from regarding Christianity, since it's sort of the populist/commercial branch of Christianity. It's not particularly similar to the traditional forms of the religion in the way it tries to propagate, however. Catholics, Mormons and Jehova's Witnesses are other groups that have a political stance. Most of the mainline protestants actually don't, but much of their membership is getting drug along for the ride anyway, due to the ways the media and politicians portray it.

 

[dudalb]

Recent converts are always annoyingly enthusiastic about their discovery

The term "New Athiest" is not referring to how long a person has been an athiests, but is a term used to describe the more ..for lack of a better term...aggresive attitude many atheist took in the middle of the last decade after the emegence of Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens,and Richard Dawkins as opposed to a more low key approach.
The problem I have is that the "New Athiest" often became just as annoyning as the "religionists" they hated so much..especially in becoming pretty damn arrogant about being superior because of their beliefs.

 

[applecorped]

Some atheists just don't believe in god/s, and that is far as it goes. No other input or requirement warranted or desired. No other thoughts or effort expended. It just is.

 

[Ladewig]

First off, I would love to see the figures comparing the percentage of atheists who think they are better than believers and the percentages of believers who think they are better than atheists.

Second, while I do not consider myself better than believers in general, I think I am better than the 25ish percent of Americans who disapprove of atheists serving on the U.S. Supreme Court. I have no desire to limit believers' civil rights, why should I accept their desire to limit mine?

I misspoke.
Everyone has the right to disapprove of certain people or groups of people serving on the Supreme Court. I am not better than those Christians who disapprove of atheist justices.

I am however better than the ~25% of Americans (Time 2010 poll) who believe that the law should be re-written to prevent Muslims from serving as Supreme Court Justices or as president. If a group says that people who don't worship God the way we do should be barred from holding public office in America, then their bigotry lessens them. I consider everyone who does not want religious tests to be a requirement for federal office to be better than everyone who does want religious tests to be a requirement.


...............
http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2011799,00.html

 

[Loss Leader]

I suppose there is a difference in what they do on Sundays,

Ahem ... Saturday.


(Or Friday for some values of Friday.)

 

[Manopolus]

Ahem ... Saturday.

Well yeah, if you're talking about Orthodox Jews. I haven't met any of those personally though, despite being much more well-traveled than most of the people around me. I guess I've been to the Jewish part of New Jersey, but I didn't really spend enough time there to actually get to know anyone.

Most of the theists I know have a tendency to get drunk on Saturdays. I'm not sure that's something that would be particularly different from any given atheist. Yeah, I know, there are some anti-alcohol sorts of sects out there (Methodists, for instance) -- but few of the actual congregants pay heed to that prior to age 40 or so, if at all. In pretty much every version of the story ever told Jesus drank wine, so it's a bit hard to push a complete anti-alcohol stance in Christianity. Islam is a different story, of course. It's also a religion I don't know doodley squat about (I know slightly more than the locals, but really not much at all -- had a roomate once from Senegal whose family was Islamic, but he claimed to be an atheist -- around me, anyway -- I doubt his family ever heard about his lack of belief).

 

[MG1962]

Some atheists just don't believe in god/s, and that is far as it goes. No other input or requirement warranted or desired. No other thoughts or effort expended. It just is.

And this is how it should be on both sides of the debate.

 

[Aepervius]

And this is how it should be on both sides of the debate.

Ha but the problem is, when you start believing in something, and you start to believe that the baggage associated with that belief should be applied to the society as a whole. This is why there is a debate in the first place.

Note that I did not cite a specific religion or belief. There would be hefty debate , say, if a majority of people believed in astrology and wanted to impose to civil society to first draw a reading before taking any decision.

And that is where the big problem is : some people with some belief, wants all over the world, to impose laws based on their own belief usually under the form of a holy book.

Eliminate that , and pretty much atheist and theist have no reason anymore to debate stuff, as it all becomes again a question of personal taste.

 

[Leumas]

And this is how it should be on both sides of the debate.

Yes that would be nice... so why don't you go tell your fellow theists to stop supporting (actively or passively) stuff like this

• Big Question For 2015: Will The Supreme Court Rule On Abortion?
• Supreme Court to Decide Marriage Rights for Gay Couples Nationwide
• Christian Zionism: The Heresy that Undermines Middle East Peace

And to stop financing and supporting actively or passively any of these things

No, we are only trying to make them stop shoving their world view down everyone's throat whenever they can get away with it.

We are only trying to demonstrate how their world view is wrong only because they think that it is so correct that they cannot resist the need to enforce it upon everyone by making it the laws of the land.

It is not positive atheists that are

• Persecuting Gays and denying them equal citizenship privileges.
• Targeting and killing abortion clinic staff and flying airplanes into buildings.
• Impeding scientific Research and Development because of their delusion.
• Obstructing education based upon rational realities and trying to shove their delusions into children's education.
• Machinating and supporting things that will cause world destruction because they want to hurry their delusion's long awaited consummation of his marriage to them behind closed doors.
• Hindering action to stem global worming because they believe those disasters are part of their delusion's plan
• Fomenting civil unrest in the defense of their delusion,

Please read some history to find out who are the ones that have done harm for millennia to the whole world.

While we are busy fending off allegations of being "scary nasty totalitarian fundamentalist atheists" hurled at us by self-admitted reformed hateful "fundamentalist atheists" this stuff is going on:

Vision America's Rick Scarborough was a guest on Gordon Klingenschmitt's "Pray In Jesus Name" program recently, where he explained that God is blessing the state of Texas because "Christians have infiltrated" and taken over the state GOP. Scarborough was discussing his efforts to mobilize right-wing pastors to get involved in politics across the nation and noting that he has had a great deal of success in Texas; so much so that if one now attends an annual Republican Party convention in Texas, it feels as if one is attending a revival meeting.​

It is not positive atheists that are trying to enforce their world view wherever they can.

It is not atheists that are insidiously trying to dominate the "seven mountains of power" and take over the country.

While we argue on forums whether negative atheism is nicer than the positive one they are pressing on quietly with their strategic plans.

From Here

The George Grant quote cited below comes from a book he published in 1987 with Dominion Press, entitled The Changing of the Guard. Yes, they have been aiming for this for a very long time. And for a very long time they have worked under the cover of our ignorance. Who could have predicted a few nut cases could ever acquire such influence in our politics and our military? (No apologies to Condoleeza Rice).

"Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ-to have dominion in the civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.
But it is dominion that we are after. Not just a voice.

It is dominion we are after. Not just influence.

It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time.
It is dominion we are after.

World conquest. That’s what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less.

If Jesus Christ is indeed Lord, as the Bible says, and if our commission is to bring the land into subjection to His Lordship, as the Bible says, then all our activities, all our witnessing, all our preaching, all our craftsmanship, all our stewardship, and all our political action will aim at nothing short of that sacred purpose.

Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land – of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ. It is to reinstitute the authority of God’s Word as supreme over all judgments, over all legislation, over all declarations, constitutions, and confederations."​

[imgw=350]http://spagmonster.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/christian-persecution.jpg[/imgw]

[imgw=350]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w194/orphia/bcf6a53b82badb9a8503facb73b2a45d_zps8558b72f.jpg[/imgw]

[imgw=350]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_512824eb207d719dc1.jpg[/imgw]

 

[Leumas]

The term "New Athiest" is not referring to how long a person has been an athiests, but is a term used to describe the more ..for lack of a better term...aggresive attitude many atheist took in the middle of the last decade after the emegence of Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens,and Richard Dawkins as opposed to a more low key approach.
The problem I have is that the "New Athiest" often became just as annoyning as the "religionists" they hated so much..especially in becoming pretty damn arrogant about being superior because of their beliefs.

Atheism is as much of a belief as not playing sports is a sport or as much as not being alcoholic is an addiction or as much as not killing is a murder.

...The problem I have is that the "New Athiest" often became just as annoyning as the "religionists" they hated so much..especially in becoming pretty damn arrogant about being superior because of their LACK OF beliefs.

IFTFY

Maybe Jewish Culture Atheists putting such a high value on learning had something to do with it.....

And yes... pretty much atheists are less bloody barmy than anyone who believes that the almighty creator of the universe and everything in it chose a cowardly PIMP over all humanity to be his friend and that he made real estate deals with him which had to be ratified by cutting the foreskin off of his and his descendants' genitals for perpetuity.

Atheists are definitely less darned bonkers than anyone who believes that the almighty creator of the universe is a schizophrenic with a multiple personality disorder and who fornicates with a 13 years old married girl so as to impregnate her with himself pretending to be his own son and then sits inside her for 9 month and then slides out from between her legs so as to wait for thirty years doing pretty much nothing but cause the deaths of thousands of children while he is hiding like a coward and then to go pretend to get killed and then pretend to be a walking talking zombie and all so as to forgive the slip of a couple who ate from a magic tree after having been fooled by a talking snake.

So yes... an atheist is infinitely less meshuga than anyone who believes that the only sky daddy there is prefers some people over others and orders them to massacre and genocide people and to take their little girls as sex slaves and that is why in the year 2015 the imaginary impossible descendants of those mythical genocidal ethnic cleansing chosen Übermenschen are allowed to go on ethnically cleansing the land this almighty all loving creator of the universe and everything chose out of the entire universe to be his abode so as to dwell among the imaginary and impossible descendants of A MYTHICAL FAMILY OF COWARDLY PIMPS and an EFFEMINATE DECEIVING SWINDLING MAMA'S BOY and INCESTUOUS INBREDS.