2nd successful terrorist attack during Obama's term

[barrymore]

This is a total misconception of what happened in both Times Square and the underwear bomber case.

1. The underwear bomber was thwarted by a simple x-ray machine that prevented a real detonator from getting on board. No detonator = no bomb. This was pre-9/11 screening for the win!

2. The Times Square bomber was limited by the fact that his purchase of any real bomb ingredients could have tipped his hand. Same with researching proper construction methods. Do a bit of browsing on bomb making sites and then go try to buy the fertilizer and detonators necessary for an effective device. Do you really think you will be free to enter Times Square? Our monitoring, or his reasonable fear of our monitoring, limited his ability to do the job competently, not luck.

To dismiss the restrictions in place that lead to these failures is just as dismissive of reality as claiming that we are ever going to be 100% safe.

I agree on the first, but not the second. This only failed because he was incompetent. First of all, no one is going to be in trouble for researching bomb-making techniques, and it is debatable whether anyone will even notice. And I am talking about looking online/going to library. This dude trained at a terror camp. And second, unless you are buying a ton of explosive fertilizer, no one is going to notice. He had gasoline and propane in there, both of which will not trigger any suspicions when buying and can be obtained via cash with no paper trail. While it might be tough for someone to assemble an OKC-type bomb, it would not be hard for someone, given the expertise and patience, to assemble one that could do serious damage. There's almost no way to stop it. And there really cannot be, unless even more invasive measure are put up by the gov't.

 

[Philosaur]

well, you can't blame people for being a little...concerned.

I live in NYC and was in Times Sqaure on Wednesday night.

am I frightened? nope.

am I concerned? eh...maybe for a few seconds.

the level of sophistication of these so-called "bombs" makes me feel more and more that our enemy is a paper tiger.

So wait--were the attacks successful or not? You aren't the only one who was underwhelmed by the attempt(s).

Sure, people may blame Obama, but is that justified? If so, wouldn't that justification hold true in blaming Dubya for 9-11?

In any case, we don't know how many attempts have been thwarted. In terms of percent of attacks prevented, Obama's administration may be doing WAY better than Dubya's.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

There's almost no way to stop it. And there really cannot be, unless even more invasive measure are put up by the gov't.

That is why the small-timers are the ones that worry or even scare me. As I said earlier, Al'Qaida and other big groups we can find and track. But cases like the Washington sniper, the guy who flew his plane into the IRS building, and now fireworks bomber wannabes in Manhattan? Unless you get a tip-off from a friend or neighbour or something of the would-be perp, he or she has free reins.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Actually, this brings up something I'm kinda curious about, given the blame game that (at least to me as non-US citizen) seems to be so prevalent in your politics.

How much of your sectret service and intelligence apparatus is actually replaced when an administration switches? All of it? Part? None? And in a similar vein, how much of the policies of said agencies actually undergo sweeping changes?
I ask because in the countries in europe I am familiar with such agencies and general burocracy tends to happily tick along regardless of who is in charge at the moment. Maybe on occasion a senior official is replaced or politics claim to introduce sweeping changes, but in actuality little changes as unpopular or policies percieved to be practically unworkable just get held up in red tape till forgotten about or there have been new elections.
The fact that people seem to blame Obama directly implies that he replaced a majority and then told the new guard to discard/ignore all knowledge gained in the previous 8 years. Is this true?

 

[WildCat]

I'm laughing at the stupidity of the bomber. He was commiting his life to some lofty ideal and but could not be bothered to do 30 minutes of research on how to make a propane tank explode. He threw clocks, wires, and fertilizer into a pile and expected them to spontaneously combust. Epic fail.

Sometimes you laugh to keep from crying.

I was thinking about this. He says he was trained at a terrorist camp in Pakistan. Propane tanks there may well be very different from the ones here. For example, I know that ~7-8 years ago I had to get the valve replaced on one of my propane tanks, because new safety standards required more protection for when the tank is in other than an upright position. Maybe the bomb he made would have worked on a propane tank in Pakistan.

 

[Dorian Gray]

But an explosiveless bomb?

Hey, I think I've figured it out..... he's counted unexploded bombs as a success.... as a prelude to counting not being able to please his woman as an orgasm!

 

[Philosaur]

Actually, this brings up something I'm kinda curious about, given the blame game that (at least to me as non-US citizen) seems to be so prevalent in your politics.

How much of your sectret service and intelligence apparatus is actually replaced when an administration switches? All of it? Part? None? And in a similar vein, how much of the policies of said agencies actually undergo sweeping changes?
I ask because in the countries in europe I am familiar with such agencies and general burocracy tends to happily tick along regardless of who is in charge at the moment. Maybe on occasion a senior official is replaced or politics claim to introduce sweeping changes, but in actuality little changes as unpopular or policies percieved to be practically unworkable just get held up in red tape till forgotten about or there have been new elections.
The fact that people seem to blame Obama directly implies that he replaced a majority and then told the new guard to discard/ignore all knowledge gained in the previous 8 years. Is this true?

I think this is spot-on. To blame whoever is President at the moment is silly, unless that President actually made sweeping changes to the intelligence apparatus--which as far as I know, neither did. In any case, those sweeping changes might take years to implement, which makes it more likely that their effects wouldn't be felt until their term was over.

To be clear: my points about Dubya aren't meant to imply that I think he was to blame for 9-11, any more than I think Obama is to blame for the fireworks bomber.

 

[Biscuit]

The ONLY thing that stopped this from being a complete tragedy was the incompetence of the terrorist in building the bomb.

That and the hard working men and woman at customs and boarder patrol who were able to identify the culprit before he could leave the country. Lets give them some due credit and heartfelt praise. The system worked, at the 11th hour, but it still worked.

Also the astute citizen who brought the car to the police's attention so that they could defuse the device and save lives. A round of drinks for those people as well.