Cosmic Roy
Critical Thinker
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- Jan 14, 2009
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- 261
Examples like this seem to me to be a strong argument against the opening post.
2nd Amendment for the U.K. -- long overdue
- Thread starter Baylor
- Start date
Examples like this seem to me to be a strong argument against the opening post.
My feelings as well.
You have to appreciate that this kind of thing just does not tend to happen in Western Europe. The extent to which this is because guns are rare - probably due to tight laws - rather than cultural issues is perhaps the debate.
Oh I totally agree and if it came to pass I might feel different, just at the moment I don't like the thought of other (law abiding) citizens having rights that I don't!
I know exactly why the guy started shooting. Because he had a gun.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Uh, well, yeah, if random people walking around dropping litter are carrying firearms, it would be pretty irrational to have unarmed police.
Our view is that on the whole it's better if random people walking around (whether dropping litter or not) do not carry firearms.
What a completely senseless waste of a life.
Rolfe.
ZirconBlue
Sole Survivor of L-Town
If the laws don't actually affect how many people have guns, then why bother with them in the first place?
Please stop. You're making us look bad.
No. That's the "how", not the "why". The mere possession of a gun does not turn someone into a homicidal maniac. Millions of Americans own guns. Very few of us, even criminals, would fire on a police officer in such a situation. I would guess that the guy was one or more of the following:
A) On drugs
2) Insane
c) Worried that the policeman was going to find out something that would land him in jail anyway, such as drugs on his person, or an outstanding warrant for his arrest. Or he was paranoid about some other crime being discovered.
However our "very few" is significantly lower that your "very few", and the posters here are suggesting that a large part of that revolves around the availability (or otherwise) of legal firearms.
Wouldn't it be better therefore that even if a person is A, 2 or c (or a combination of them) they didn't have a gun to hand?
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Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
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Well, it's not supposed to support or oppose it.
Well, according to my step-dad he had no drugs on him and no outstanding warrants. My guess is option B......er option 2: insane.
Was the gun the guy opened up on your step-dad with legal? Did he have a carry permit or whatever?
Cosmic Roy
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2009
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Nevertheless, stories such as the one you shared just serve to harden my attitude to widespread gun ownership.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Well, exactly. Of course it's only a small minority of people who either decide to go out and shoot someone, or lose their temper and shoot in the heat of the moment. The point is that when someone reaches that point, it's less dangerous on the whole if he doesn't actually have a gun.
Rolfe.
Rolfe.
The USA started WWII?
I happen to know a bit about Nottingham's gun crime. The very high murder rate that's always being quoted was a temporary blip. Normally we have about 12 murders (total) a year for the whole county. Normally very few involve guns. Most are "domestics".
Various things coincided - a new Chief Constable who decided to change the way the police were organised - getting rid of the specialist units - Drug Squad, Vice Squad and Robbery Squad - despite allegedly being warned of the effect this would have on gun crime. There followed some blatant gang warfare and one dreadful armed robbery/murder.
Secondly (little known fact) several of the killings were linked. Because they used the SAME gun. Even in Nottingham so called "gun capital" they had to pass the gun around.
Most guns seized by the police here also have one big problem - no ammunition. Crooks prefer just to wave empty guns (at least its mitigation).
Various things coincided - a new Chief Constable who decided to change the way the police were organised - getting rid of the specialist units - Drug Squad, Vice Squad and Robbery Squad - despite allegedly being warned of the effect this would have on gun crime. There followed some blatant gang warfare and one dreadful armed robbery/murder.
Secondly (little known fact) several of the killings were linked. Because they used the SAME gun. Even in Nottingham so called "gun capital" they had to pass the gun around.
Most guns seized by the police here also have one big problem - no ammunition. Crooks prefer just to wave empty guns (at least its mitigation).
Seismosaurus
Philosopher
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2003
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- 6,092
People being people, on any given day a certain percentage of them will fly into a rage. Maybe it's too hot, or they just lost their job or got dumped by their significant other, or the cop that pulled them over was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
The point is, in the US, this person is somewhat likely to have a gun. Not hugely so perhaps, but there's a decent chance that when random guy has his Falling Down moment and snaps, he has a gun or can get hold of one.
Here, that guy would most likely have got out of his car and yelled a stream of abuse. Maybe he'd throw a bottle at the cop. Maybe he'd try and attack him, or just run off. But he's vastly less likely to fire a gun at the cop, because he simply wouldn't have one to fire.
God, I'm 41 years old, I've lived in the UK all my life, and I've never even SEEN a gun outside TV or military displays and such.
The point is, in the US, this person is somewhat likely to have a gun. Not hugely so perhaps, but there's a decent chance that when random guy has his Falling Down moment and snaps, he has a gun or can get hold of one.
Here, that guy would most likely have got out of his car and yelled a stream of abuse. Maybe he'd throw a bottle at the cop. Maybe he'd try and attack him, or just run off. But he's vastly less likely to fire a gun at the cop, because he simply wouldn't have one to fire.
God, I'm 41 years old, I've lived in the UK all my life, and I've never even SEEN a gun outside TV or military displays and such.
Townie.
Shotguns are fairly common in agricultural circles, and of course there's rifle shooting out on the hills. However the rest of your point is very well made as the average person is extremely unlikely to have one to hand when he has his Falling Down moment behind the car wheel.