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Merged 2024 Election Thread

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Ziggurat said:
None of that would or could happen. If the president resigns, the vice president gets sworn in. "GOP lawyers and judges" would have nothing to say or do about it.

Your first paragraph is correct. Your last one is not. Read the text of the 25th to see why.
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25th Amendment - Presidential Disability and Succession | Constitution Center

In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.
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This is all pretty clear. There is no role in the process for courts or judges. If the cabinet declares the president incompetent, the VP assumes the duties. If the President comes back and says he is competent then Congress can vote on the issue.
 
I'm sure SCOTUS will rule that the 25th amendment says

"In case of the removal of the President from office, a Republican shall be appointed as the new POTUS."
 
Right.. and so many people were right about the Red Wave that was supposed to happen in 2022...
 
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CarbShark said:
This is all pretty clear. There is no role in the process for courts or judges. If the cabinet declares the president incompetent, the VP assumes the duties. If the President comes back and says he is competent then Congress can vote on the issue.
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I'll get to a clarification I should have made in a moment, but let's look at the entire text of section 4 (the relevant section for this discussion) because the entire thing is important here.

25th Amendment Section 4 said:
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
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So the first paragraph tells how the VP and the cabinet can declare him unfit. But then we need to look at the second paragraph, because it doesn't end there if the president doesn't want to be removed. And the second paragraph says that the president just needs to write a letter to Congress declaring himself fit in order to reassume his role. And he will then resume his role immediately unless and until such time as the VP and cabinet reassert that he's still unfit. And at that point, Congress steps in and makes a decision between the conflicting parties. And both houses of Congress must agree by a 2/3rds majority that the president is unfit in order to remove him.

In other words, if the VP and the cabinet say he's unfit, but he says he's still fit, then Congress has to decide. So yeah, it's not the courts. I should have been more explicit, but my point was that the GOP (or to be more specific, Republicans in Congress) do in fact very much have a say in the execution of the 25th amendment if the VP/cabinet want to remove him but he doesn't want to go.

All of which could hypothetically lead to a scenario in which Harris and the cabinet are trying to remove him but Republicans in Congress are blocking them from doing so. Which would be quite a farcical situation, but within the realm of possibility.
 
This is hilarious - Sportsbet is showing Kamala Harris as 2nd favourite behind Trump, at $6-50, with Sleepy Joe at $7-50.

I'd go as far as to say that's unprecedented.

Trump solid at $1-50.
 
Biden’s poor debate performance had almost no impact on voter preference, new report says

President Joe Biden’s performance during the first presidential debate has been widely panned, with critics and even those within his own party calling for him to step aside. But the question remained: Would Biden’s shaky performance against former President Donald Trump result in a noticeable dip in the polls for the president?

According to a new report from the Northeastern University-led data project CHIP50, the answer is no.

Led by David Lazer, university distinguished professor of political science and computer science at Northeastern, the report indicates that the debate had little if any impact on people’s voting preference. Lazer hopes the report helps illustrate the dangers of making a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to the media interpreting data.

“Even the New York Times, which is usually better about this, talked about a very tiny shift that was totally insignificant statistically like it was evidence that it was a shift toward Trump after the debate,” Lazer says. “My hope is that reporters look at this and say, ‘Maybe we need to be careful in overinterpreting noise as actual signal.’”

Seeing the dominant narrative coming out of the debate, Lazer and the team at CHIP50 decided to test the hypothesis that Biden had lost ground in public opinion after the debate. Notably, Lazer says, they didn’t survey two different cross-sectional groups of people before and after the debate like most polls. Instead, the team was able to survey the same group of respondents from a survey conducted before the debate.

Lazer says using the same group of people helps make the results more precise, which is important in polling that inherently has a margin of error.

What the report finds is that Biden held on to 94% of the people who said they would support him before the debate. For Trump, 86% of people who said they would support him before the debate said they would do so after the debate.

“What we see is that there is some churn –– maybe 10 percent or so of people change what they answer –– but that the net result is not a movement away from Biden,” Lazer says. “If anything, it seems that Biden is holding on to his people somewhat better than Trump.”
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Well, nobody will see this report, and nobody cares. The worthless ******* ***** who run the media have already made their decision, because chaos and ******** is what sells. They don't give a **** about democracy, getting money from stupid people's clicks is all that matters.
 
In other words, if the VP and the cabinet say he's unfit, but he says he's still fit, then Congress has to decide. So yeah, it's not the courts. I should have been more explicit, but my point was that the GOP (or to be more specific, Republicans in Congress) do in fact very much have a say in the execution of the 25th amendment if the VP/cabinet want to remove him but he doesn't want to go.[/QUOTE]

That's correct.

Ziggurat said:
All of which could hypothetically lead to a scenario in which Harris and the cabinet are trying to remove him but Republicans in Congress are blocking them from doing so. Which would be quite a farcical situation, but within the realm of possibility.
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Yes, that's one possibility for the next episode of this ******* **** show we call 2024 politics.
 
Meanwhile:

'Deranged': Critics React To Trump's 'Fat Pig' Rally Rant

In his first campaign rally since the presidential debate, Donald Trump went on a bizarre tangent that left critics disgusted and questioning his fitness for office.

Speaking at his Doral golf club in Florida, the former president was discussing his campaign pledge to tipped workers when he began sharing an anecdote about a waitress he said he met in Nevada.

“A waitress came over, beautiful waitress — and I never liked talking about physical — she’s beautiful inside, because you never talk about a person’s look. Ever,” said Trump, who has called women “fat,” “disgusting” and “unsexy,” among other misogynistic attacks, over the decades.

He then launched into a backhanded attack on former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R), a Trump ally turned critic who went up against the former president in the presidential primaries.

“The other day, I got very angry,” Trump continued. “Some man called Chris Christie fat. And I said, ‘Sir.’ And then he said he was a pig. I said, ‘Sir! Chris Christie is not a fat pig!’ Please remember he is not a fat pig. Please take it back.”
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So where is this on CNN, WAPO or NY Times? I search but don't find it there. Why? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FIT WITH THE NARRATIVE THAT JOE BIDEN NEEDS TO BE PUT OUT TO PASTURE, THAT'S WHY!
 
NYT reports there are Biden advisors who are trying to figure out how to convince him to step down.

If Biden stumbles in the press conference later today, that will put an end to all this.
 
shemp said:
Meanwhile:

'Deranged': Critics React To Trump's 'Fat Pig' Rally Rant

So where is this on CNN, WAPO or NY Times? I search but don't find it there. Why? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FIT WITH THE NARRATIVE THAT JOE BIDEN NEEDS TO BE PUT OUT TO PASTURE, THAT'S WHY!
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Trump demonstrates that his intellect is on par with Eric Cartman virtually every day. Whereas an incumbent POTUS getting this sort of pushback from their own party is seismic.
 
that was his first appearance since the debate if i recall correctly. pretty good hasn’t lost a step
 
varwoche said:
NYT reports there are Biden advisors who are trying to figure out how to convince him to step down.

If Biden stumbles in the press conference later today, that will put an end to all this.
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Maybe. I think Biden does realize that time is short if he is to step down. However, the Republican convention runs the 15-18th. Right after that is pretty much the last chance to transfer smoothly to Harris. And Biden will not tranfer his electors to anyone else.
 
shemp said:
BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FIT WITH THE NARRATIVE THAT JOE BIDEN NEEDS TO BE PUT OUT TO PASTURE, THAT'S WHY!
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Mate, you're far closer to the action than me and I have the utmost respect for your opinion.

If you're sure Joe's ok, I'll buy it.

I am going to watch his presser today, which I note has been delayed an hour.
 
shemp said:
Meanwhile:

'Deranged': Critics React To Trump's 'Fat Pig' Rally Rant



So where is this on CNN, WAPO or NY Times? I search but don't find it there. Why? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FIT WITH THE NARRATIVE THAT JOE BIDEN NEEDS TO BE PUT OUT TO PASTURE, THAT'S WHY!
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I don’t really understand your point here. My understanding is that there have been very long-running commentaries and narratives about Donald Trump being in court on multiple counts, had his mugshot taken, and broadcast, become a convicted felon etc….

All of this is true and worth reporting because Trump wants to be president of the United States.

As well as this, Biden is showing signs of becoming incapacitated by age or, possibly, “cognitive decline”.

Is this something the media should cover? Of course! It absolutely should. There is no point complaining about it or saying that it has no effect on voter intent. The story itself is important.

What it seems like, to me, assuming your post is not satire (and I apologize for not understanding the subtlety if it is), is that you think it is the media’s job to report in a partisan way. That Trump calling Chris Christie a fat pig, needs to be the news story, and Biden being extremely debilitated by age, to be passed over in silence, if the voters are okay with it.

Of course, it might be different where you are. Maybe the coverage is wall-to-wall and therefore no longer worth banging on about, but I am surprised to read people saying that the reason we are talking about this is because of some media concoction. People around the world have been able to watch these live videos of him.

Anyway, let’s see how he is in the press conference without commentary.
 
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