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Cont: 2024 Election Thread part 2

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acbytesla said:
Does this surprise any of us?

How many times have we read posters claiming to be undecided or even saying they are voting democrat and yet post almost non-stop Trump/Republican talking points?
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Countless times. "I was an atheist/skeptic/Democrat/liberal/whatever like you, but then--"
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Countless times. "I was an atheist/skeptic/Democrat/liberal/whatever like you, but then--"
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I'm gay/minority/pro-choice/pro-gun control and I want the government to address climate change/corporations to pay more taxes/more funding for public schools/ affordable heatlhcare.

But, someone on the internet was mean to me/the audience didn't laugh at my joke/my coworker asked me to be more considerate of others/my local government considered a health ordinace I don't like, so I am foresaking all of my principles to support the party that opposes all that I support and is led by a guy who enthusatically trashes people like me.
 
Donal said:
the letters from the last few presidents to their successors have been published and among the common threads are "you are president for all Ameircans, not just the ones who voted for you" and also a sense of awe at how big the office is and how small they all felt upon assuming it. Imagine men from the Bush family, who spent their entire existenses in the upper echelons of power, being humbled.
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This is why I'm somewhat tolerant of a Presidents forming a certain bond with ex-Presidents even ones that are politically polar opposites because as you say that shared perspective is something I can imagine sometimes you need talk to someone else who has sat in that chair. No, I don't think Obama was calling George W. up for "advice" in a literal sense as you or I would use the concept, but I can imagine most every President has to talk about something with their predecessor in some fashion. Sometimes you need perspective, to just talk something out and bounce ideas off of, someone who's been in the same place.

Another thing I assume Trump has **** upon.

Can you see Trump expressing any throughts like that?
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No. Like I said the worst thing about him, as in I do think it's a core issue that all of his other (so many other issues) stem from is he is totally incapable of self reflection
 
There's a difference between nuance and dishonesty and 99.99% of the time it's absolutely zero percent difficult to determine.

For all the wasted troll breath tipping at the "Oh you just want an echo chamber" windmill it's actually like... super easy to have a sane, nuanced opinion or set of opinions that don't 100% line up with the GOP or DNC. You can openly and honestly break rants provided you don't performatively act like a jackass and put at least some attempt into explaining why and if you do that most of the time the only people who have a problem with it are the same handful of sad little trolls who have a problem with everything so they don't matter.

One reason the "Oh you just want an echo chamber" argument always, always, always comes from a dishonest place is there is a vista wide range of things we can disagree on without invoking the two "I give up, you can't be talked to, much less reasoned with" full stops; facts actually being a thing that exists and "you should care about other people" being something that doesn't have to be justified. You met those two standards and I'll discuss 99% of things with you until the sun goes down. It's not my fault that performatively pretending to not understand those two concepts with having a "Dare you to do something about" chip on your shoulder and a smug troll grin on your face is the entire up and down, back and forth, left and right scope of the entire personality of a half dozen people here.

"I'm a widget, but I have a few anti-widget policies in specific circumstances that I can at least make a token attempt at an effort as to why I think those exceptions are merited to the point that even if you don't agree with me you'll grant me I'm not just making crap up"

and

"Don't you dare call me anti-widget, but I'm going to fight widgets in literally every argument and literally speak only in anti-widget talking points" like... well every conservative on this board does is totally another.

To go back to my core "You are what you do, not what you say / You are on the side of the discussion you spend the most time defending, not the side you claim allegiance too" view of the world my litmus test is always this. All those trolls we have who scream they aren't Republicans/Conservatives/Trumpers? I pose this question. "What would functionally change about how you argue if you were?"
 
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jimbob said:
Something similar happened on the radio in the UK

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Many of the Brits will probably be able to guess what this is about. It's only about half a minute's listen. And could probably work as well substituting Trump as the key name.
 
Trump says

Three years ago, Kamala's and Biden's incompetence left 13 dead warriors, hundreds of civilians killed and grievously wounded, and $85 billion worth of the finest military equipment on the planet abandoned to the Taliban.
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used the wrong tags sorry lol
 
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JoeMorgue said:
To go back to my core "You are what you do, not what you say / You are on the side of the discussion you spend the most time defending, not the side you claim allegiance too" view of the world my litmus test is always this. All those trolls we have who scream they aren't Republicans/Conservatives/Trumpers? I pose this question. "What would functionally change about how you argue if you were?"
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Sorry, but that's a stupid argument. It only serves to reduce any discussion to a function of its most extremes by flattening all that nuance you claim to value. You can't even use it yourself without hyperbole, describing people "who scream they aren't Republicans/Conservatives/Trumpers."
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Sorry, but that's a stupid argument. It only serves to reduce any discussion to a function of its most extremes by flattening all that nuance you claim to value. You can't even use it yourself without hyperbole, describing people "who scream they aren't Republicans/Conservatives/Trumpers."
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Wow if only all my post that you conveniently decided to not put in your quote addressed exactly that.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
oh no am i a trumper now?
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If you keep arguing that childishly, sure why not?

I laid out, in multi-paragraph depth, that you can have massive nuance and not to any argumentative line without playing the obvious trolling "I'm no X, but I'm going to do nothing but argue for X" routine.

I'm not sure what you're arguing and butt hurt about.
 
JoeMorgue said:
If you keep arguing that childishly, sure why not?

I laid out, in multi-paragraph depth, that you can have massive nuance and not to any argumentative line without playing the obvious trolling "I'm no X, but I'm going to do nothing but argue for X" routine.

I'm not sure what you're arguing and butt hurt about.
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It's a stupid argument. Getting upset that I'm telling you it's a stupid argument isn't going to make it less stupid.

Even in this tiny forgotten corner of the internet we have our trolls with varying levels of ingenuousness, but no one's "screaming" that they aren't a Trumper. No one's saying "don't you dare call me a Trumper." You're pouring so much effort into forcing a motive on other people just for an excuse to dismiss them for it. It's stupid. You can do that to anyone, over anything. And it's a waste because they're trolls, there's already plenty of good reasons not to engage with trolling. You don't have to invent more dishonest motivation when there's so much of it lying around.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
It's a stupid argument. Getting upset that I'm telling you it's a stupid argument isn't going to make it less stupid.

Even in this tiny forgotten corner of the internet we have our trolls with varying levels of ingenuousness, but no one's "screaming" that they aren't a Trumper. No one's saying "don't you dare call me a Trumper." You're pouring so much effort into forcing a motive on other people just for an excuse to dismiss them for it. It's stupid. You can do that to anyone, over anything. And it's a waste because they're trolls, there's already plenty of good reasons not to engage with trolling. You don't have to invent more dishonest motivation when there's so much of it lying around.
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..... ooookay.

As always **** "ignoring the trolls." That's how we got here.
 
JoeMorgue said:
..... ooookay.

As always **** "ignoring the trolls." That's how we got here.
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Who said "ignoring?" I said "dismiss" and "not engage." The Harris campaign is doing a great job of showing how effective simple ridicule can be.
 
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