2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker

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Cabbage said:
So what? I don't think we would have had the antifa antics without Trump, either, so my point still stands.
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Remind me again what ethnic/religious/orientation antifa wants to commit genocide against?

What a tired old false equivalence that is.

I say this as someone who can't stand antifa, mind you.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Remind me again what ethnic/religious/orientation antifa wants to commit genocide against?

What a tired old false equivalence that is.

I say this as someone who can't stand antifa, mind you.
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I honestly can't tell what point you're trying to make or why you're making that response to me. I'm claiming Trump was a significant catalyst to Charlottesville. theprestige said that antifa was was more of a catalyst (than Trump) to Cville, however (as if to excuse Trump, in my impression). And then I countered that Trump himself was a catalyst to antifa, too (in a different way than Cville, of course). I'm not trying to draw any sort of equivalence between antifa and Cville; I'm merely pointing out they both have inspirations from Trump (in obviously pro Trump/con Trump different ways, of course).
 
JoeMorgue said:
The whole "X drove people to the other side" thing, while probably true in a lot of cases and something that has to be factored on a purely practical political level, reeks a little too much of a 3rd person, by proxy "Lookit what you made me do defense."
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There's how things are, and a pragmatic view of how they are.

I'm pretty sure only the second of those options produces results.

The entire left-leaning world is a critical point right now. Corbyn in the UK is a disaster (and I was 100% supportive of him at the start); our own government came with lots of promise and a pretty face and has completely failed to live up to its promise and popularity (supported them, too); Trudeau has done exactly the same thing in Canada, while Aussie's left was so hopeless they lost an election there were $1-10 favourites to win the night before the election.

Combine those with the abject failure of the Dems in 2016 and I think it's a fair summary to say that if they screw this up, you can just burn your copies of Das Kapital and welcome in an era of permanent Friedman economics. At least until the excesses of Friedman come home to roost.

Or maybe I could just take my impeccable record at supporting losers and join the Republican Party and start wearing MAGA hats - that'll fix them!
 
The Atheist said:
What suffering has Trump caused? Whose rights have been denied as a result of his actions?
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I suggest you go back and refresh your memory by reading my earlier posts so you know what we're talking about. I can't believe you already forgot.

So, if others do it, it's ok?

Gotcha.
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Who said it was ok? Again, perhaps you should pay more attention to what our conversation is about. You've making stuff up now.

I'm pretty sure you're not an ANZAC, so I'll presume your PM is Trudeau.

How's that working out for you?
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Pretty well, actually. Trudeau's not a great PM, and I disagree with a lot of his politics, but he'll probably lose the next elections, and Canada moves on. He's not a disaster.
 
I am uninterested in the whole "_____ drove people to vote for Trump" exercises. There is no point. Everyone that voted Trump are scum and I hope they never vote for a Democrat ever again because I don't want their support. I'm open to any strategy that captures people that didn't vote in 2016 but Trump voters are out. They had their chance and chose to vote for absolute evil. They are dead to me and I'd rather lose than ever treat Trump voters as people.
 
Travis said:
I am uninterested in the whole "_____ drove people to vote for Trump" exercises. There is no point. Everyone that voted Trump are scum and I hope they never vote for a Democrat ever again because I don't want their support. I'm open to any strategy that captures people that didn't vote in 2016 but Trump voters are out. They had their chance and chose to vote for absolute evil. They are dead to me and I'd rather lose than ever treat Trump voters as people.
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Hi there, Travis! How's it going today?
 
Cabbage said:
I honestly can't tell what point you're trying to make or why you're making that response to me. I'm claiming Trump was a significant catalyst to Charlottesville. theprestige said that antifa was was more of a catalyst (than Trump) to Cville, however (as if to excuse Trump, in my impression). And then I countered that Trump himself was a catalyst to antifa, too (in a different way than Cville, of course). I'm not trying to draw any sort of equivalence between antifa and Cville; I'm merely pointing out they both have inspirations from Trump (in obviously pro Trump/con Trump different ways, of course).
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My mistake for not following the flow.

That said, I don't see Trump as a catalyst for our problems, he's just a really obvious symptom.

This would be like blaming chicken pox on the pimples that form on your skin.
 
Travis said:
I am uninterested in the whole "_____ drove people to vote for Trump" exercises. There is no point. Everyone that voted Trump are scum and I hope they never vote for a Democrat ever again because I don't want their support. I'm open to any strategy that captures people that didn't vote in 2016 but Trump voters are out. They had their chance and chose to vote for absolute evil. They are dead to me and I'd rather lose than ever treat Trump voters as people.
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That sounds like a healthy, well adjusted way of looking at the world.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
My mistake for not following the flow.

That said, I don't see Trump as a catalyst for our problems, he's just a really obvious symptom.

This would be like blaming chicken pox on the pimples that form on your skin.
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On this, I'll disagree with you. That Trump is in power is a symptom of our problems is a pretty straightforward thing. Your comparison of him to the pimples from chicken pox, though, is not relevant to the question of whether he's also a catalyst or not. The underlying relevant questions for that are "What is he actually doing?" and "What effects does adding him to the mix cause?"

To be clear, he's doing a bunch of things that empower and embolden the some of the worst parts of human nature and the people who had a tendency to want to indulge such are seeing opportunity at hand to do so. That's just not reasonably comparable to what chicken pox pimples actually do.
 
Belz... said:
I suggest you go back and refresh your memory by reading my earlier posts so you know what we're talking about. I can't believe you already forgot.
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Are you sure you haven't forgotten what you've posted, because in the last ten pages, all I can find is this:

Belz said:
Why would you think a legal situation that could strip people of their freedoms "hilarious"?
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Hardly compelling. Something could happen.

Does not answer "What harm has he caused?"

So yes, please list what harm Trump has actually caused so far. And don't get on the illegal migrant bandwagon - America has been on that case since before Trump's first bankruptcy.

Belz... said:
Pretty well, actually. Trudeau's not a great PM, and I disagree with a lot of his politics, but he'll probably lose the next elections, and Canada moves on. He's not a disaster.
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He is for the idea that left-leaning governments are the way forward.
 
This is superficial of me but I wish Mayor Pete's last name wasn't Buttigieg. People may avoid talking about him just because they don't know how to pronounce his last name. Calling him "Mayor Pete" could just emphasize that his only political experience is in municipal affairs.

On the other hand Trump had none.

And I think electing presidents who are about to turn 78 (Biden) is problematic. He's almost certain to be seen as a one-term president. Staying in office until age 86 is pushing it, IMO.
 
The New Yorker had an article on candidates' memoirs and concluded that Buttigieg and Warren's were standouts. The difference is, Warren would talk about how things were in manufacturing's heyday, while Buttigieg hasn't had that experience and could only talk of moving forward, not back to some remembered time. I can see Buttigieg getting out the younger vote.

Of course he could be a veep on someone else's ticket, with some vague understanding that fate could give him the presidency. From what I can tell he would not simply lie fallow waiting for a larger stage, but would make the most out of an opportunity to educate himself.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Okay, but what harm has Trudeau actually caused?
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He's harmed the idea that the left is a valid alternative.

Instead of leading, he's just a corrupt little pretty boy out for self-aggrandisement.

Like I said, when you add that to Ardern, Shorten & Corbyn's abject failures, the left becomes a less-viable alternative and people turn away from them and move right.

It isn't a coincidence that the right is rising in the 21st century.
 
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