Cont: 2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker Part IV

[Suddenly]

The people in the Rust Belt don't think the Rust Belt jobs are ever coming back. Nobody does.

Nobody believed Trump when he said he was going to save factory jobs. The Trumpers just heard it for the coded message that it was. "Yeah you and I know that factory ain't never gonna open up again, I'm just here to punish the people who did it, the people you think did it, the people you already hated and now are using this as an excuse to hate, everyone who's better off then you and you're jealous, and hell while we are at it just everyone you've ever wanted to punish for whatever reason."

This is why people are so confused when Trump outright says to his supporters "I'm going to do the thing" then doesn't do the thing and they still love him. Because they didn't hear "I'm gonna do the thing" they heard what he was actually saying "Listen we both know I can't do the thing, but me pretending I'm gonna do the thing is gonna troll the libs soooooo hard and isn't that just awesome?"

Trump didn't tap into some hidden well of hope in the rural areas and the heartland and the rustbelt that things were ever going to get better and he was going to lead them to it. This is spite and revenge and... just raw uncategorized, unorganized lashing out. It's not hope.

The rural areas of America haven't pinned any hope on Donald Trump, that's ludicrous.

The idea that they have all just given up hoping and looking for a better life and are acting purely out of hate and spite is offensive dehumanization.

That and wrong unless 3/4 of the people I come across are lying to me and/or are a statistically implausible anomaly.

 

[Segnosaur]

The path to defeating Trump is definitely not through outrage.
He must be portrayed as the small, thirsty, comical troll that he is.
Laughing at him is the best weapon against him.

Maybe. But then, remember, one of the reasons why Clinton ended up losing to Trump is because many former Obama voters decided to stay home in the 2016 general election.

Now, this group of non-voters is not monolithic, and I'm sure there are multiple reasons why they sat out in 2016 (thought hillary was guaranteed to win, disliked both candidates, didn't recognize how bad Trump was). But for some of them, the question is will it motivate them to come out to vote in 2020 if you concentrate on "Trump the comic Troll" as opposed to "Trump the man who is risking your lives and jobs".

 

[Suddenly]

I think there is some truth to this. That said, the Democrats didn't close those plants.

Quibbling. There was a lack of response to the dumping of cheap foreign steel and that is what killed most of the domestic steel industry. Nothing was done about other plants moving overseas for cheap labor, etc.

This was the sort of thing that labor Democrats expected the party to do something about. They didn't, which is hard to not see as a betrayal, or at least failure.

Trump's promises to fix this by making the best deals was obviously stupid, but at least it was tangible.

 

[Elagabalus]

I've said it before: the best weapon against Trump is a wheelbarrow full of melted butter. Leave that around him and he'd accidentally drown himself in mere minutes.

If that wheelbarrow were to be painted a lovely Krylon™ Gold metallic with some Royal Blue accents I don't think he would be able to resist.

 

[The_Animus]

I am going to bell the cat here;

How many of the Bernie supporters here will vote for Biden in November is he gets the nomination?
If not, why?

In my opinion Biden is a terrible candidate but I would still vote for him.

However, after this election that will no longer be the case. I'm not going to keep supporting awful candidates in perpetuity because the other side is worse. I want good candidates with integrity that will move the country forward

 

[Suddenly]

I don't think that's true. SNL, the Daily Show, and John Oliver have been cracking on him nonstop for three years, and his approval ratings haven't moved at all.

Also, remember that Obama laughing at him is how we got here in the first place.

No, I think laughing at him is probably not the best weapon. Or, if your best weapon either does nothing or just makes him stronger, then you're pretty much screwed.

Yeah.

The idea that some voter is sitting at home enjoying a grilled cheese watching some TV and an ad comes on about Trump saying some bigoted nonsense which causes that voter to go "Wow, Trump is an *******. Better not vote for him!!!" is SNL skit territory.

It isn't that Trump being a moron doesn't hurt him, it is that the return from that message diminished to zero a very long time ago. Sure, bring it up once in a while as a reminder, but if that is all they have, they are basically masturbating.

 

[Elagabalus]

Yeah.

The idea that some voter is sitting at home enjoying a grilled cheese watching some TV and an ad comes on about Trump saying some bigoted nonsense which causes that voter to go "Wow, Trump is an *******. Better not vote for him!!!" is SNL skit territory.

It isn't that Trump being a moron doesn't hurt him, it is that the return from that message diminished to zero a very long time ago. Sure, bring it up once in a while as a reminder, but if that is all they have, they are basically masturbating.

That might turn Trump "on".

 

[angrysoba]

It’s Mocha Joe vs Latte Larry


(Curb reference)

 

[dudalb]

I think there is some truth to this. That said, the Democrats didn't close those plants.

And they are never coming back. If every factory that moved overseas came back to the US, they would only employ a small number of the people they once employed because of Automation. The main job of a human on a assemblyline nowdays is just supervising the machines that are doing the actual manufacturing.

 

[Stacyhs]

A Republican woman on CNN just now who voted for Trump says she would vote for Biden if he gets the nomination this time. She's not comfortable with Sanders 'socialism'.

I think more Republicans and Independents who voted for Trump last time but are not happy with him now would vote for Biden but not Sanders.

 

[Childlike Empress]

OK, I guess we theoretically have another choice - not old, not a guy, but still evil and not particularly competent.

What a bizarre statement. There's the idea of a people getting the leaders they deserve, and in this line you certainly don't deserve Tulsi, who is the perfect candidate to beat Trump. Tough luck. Or "Karma bites"?

 

[JoeMorgue]

Every election we do this.

"We'll envigorate a whole bunch of voters! No need to appeal to any fence sitters or moderates from the other side, in fact we'll actively push them away. Nope we're gonna have so many new people, especially those young folks voting, that we won't need any of their dirty, rotten votes."

Here's reality. Within a few piddling percent points one way or the other the people who voted in 2016 are gonna be the same people who voted in 2020. If the Democrats cannot drag at least some voters over from the Trump side they will lose because there is not some untapped ground swell of people who the idea of voting just haven't occurred to them.

There's exceptions in the margins to be sure; felons are a prime case and all or any of them might happen (to cut off the "bUt U kAnt nO thAt 4 suRE!") but it's insane to count on them as your primary strategy.

Prove you're voting block, then you get catered to. It can't happen in reverse.

 

[Suddenly]

And they are never coming back. If every factory that moved overseas came back to the US, they would only employ a small number of the people they once employed because of Automation. The main job of a human on a assemblyline nowdays is just supervising the machines that are doing the actual manufacturing.

Sure. The problem is...

Trump: Those jobs can come back. I make the best deals. Look at this mostly deceiving example that you don't have the time or inclination to fact check. Winning!!

Biden: Trump is lying. I have some ideas about targeted tax credits that I can't explain very clearly.

Sanders: We need to put better labor protection in place. There is no reason the jobs that are out there now shouldn't be as stable and rewarding as those manufacturing jobs, and with universal heath care you will be better able to change jobs and maybe work for yourself without the uncertainty and burden of worrying about medical insurance.

I don't know which is the easiest to sell. Sadly, probably Trump's view. I do know which is the worst.

Nobody really liked working in the mill. All I heard growing up was to do well in school so I didn't have to dress up like a baked potato and run around the BOP. It was the money and dignity that went with it that is missed, and that is more about organized labor than the nature of the work.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I just knew it would be a good time to check out what Ben Garrison is up to...

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Regarding that meme you posted, honest question:

Are you the gullible one or are you simply concerned that others will be particularly gullible with respect to Sanders?


https://www.politifact.com/factchec...hecking-ties-between-bernie-sanders-socialis/

These lies can be spread about anyone, you know.

The problem is, few are going to research the "facts" as put forth in the meme. And we know from human psychology that even pointing out the falsehoods in the meme can cement the allegations in certain minds.

Another problem is there is just a tiny kernel of truth in the assertions, although they're exaggerated. As oppo research on Bernie gears up, prepare for an onslaught of such memes. It's going to be a giant game of "Whack-a-Mole".

 

[theprestige]

I just knew it would be a good time to check out what Ben Garrison is up to...

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/TMZ2U8T.jpg[/qimg]

Surprisingly tasteful.

 

[dudalb]

Sure. The problem is...

Trump: Those jobs can come back. I make the best deals. Look at this mostly deceiving example that you don't have the time or inclination to fact check. Winning!!

Biden: Trump is lying. I have some ideas about targeted tax credits that I can't explain very clearly.

Sanders: We need to put better labor protection in place. There is no reason the jobs that are out there now shouldn't be as stable and rewarding as those manufacturing jobs, and with universal heath care you will be better able to change jobs and maybe work for yourself without the uncertainty and burden of worrying about medical insurance.

I don't know which is the easiest to sell. Sadly, probably Trump's view. I do know which is the worst.

Nobody really liked working in the mill. All I heard growing up was to do well in school so I didn't have to dress up like a baked potato and run around the BOP. It was the money and dignity that went with it that is missed, and that is more about organized labor than the nature of the work.

Let's face it, politicians don't like to tell unpalatable truths to people.
The trick is to make it look like you are doing it, why you really are not, so you can get credit for being "Straithforward".

I love that all three are so vague in details.
And Bernie does seem to think that UHC is a pancea for all our economic ills.
I support UHC, but am not under the illusion it is going to fix every problem with our economy like some of it's proponents seem to suggest.

 

[Cabbage]

Here's reality. Within a few piddling percent points one way or the other the people who voted in 2016 are gonna be the same people who voted in 2020. If the Democrats cannot drag at least some voters over from the Trump side they will lose because there is not some untapped ground swell of people who the idea of voting just haven't occurred to them.

You got some facts right but somehow managed to arrive at the wrong conclusion. I'd like to point out that 2016 was decided by less than those "few piddling percent points" in WI, MI, and PA. It's my understanding that some sat out (or voted third party) because they refused to vote for Hillary (hell, I know quite a few of them). Bringing those people back around (now that Hillary is gone) is enough to swing the election away from Trump...without converting a single Trump voter.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Biden is a complete disaster candidate, Sanders won't be allowed to run - I wouldn't be so certain that Killary is "gone" in the sense of not "running" again in an "emergency Uncle situation".

 

[Cabbage]

The problem is, few are going to research the "facts" as put forth in the meme. And we know from human psychology that even pointing out the falsehoods in the meme can cement the allegations in certain minds.

Another problem is there is just a tiny kernel of truth in the assertions, although they're exaggerated. As oppo research on Bernie gears up, prepare for an onslaught of such memes. It's going to be a giant game of "Whack-a-Mole".

I understand. I do think it's important to point out this will be an issue with anyone. Yes, I'm sure you claim Bernie is particularly susceptible, and I'm not arguing you are wrong on that; I just want to stress how very important it is to be aware that this will be an issue with anyone. We've already seen attempts to attach Biden to corruption in Ukraine, and I see no evidence of that story dying.

I trust you remember what a giant game of Whack-a-Mole it was with Hillary Clinton. For literally decades. Still going on, as far as I can tell.