Merged 2019-nCoV / Corona virus

[Belz...]

As if the chinese government has always been truthfull and can be trusted.

Not trusting the figures you posted is not an endorsement of official Chinese government figures. Get a grip.

 

[Vixen]

Picornavirus are named because they are small RNA-genome viruses - it's in the name. Their virions are are much smaller than those of the average coronavirus but so are their RNA genomes. This is unimportant, in fact, unless one is curious as to the naming: it has nothing to do with how picoviruses are related to other viruses (Herpesvirus are named after the Greek term for crawling or creeping, but they don't actually crawl). Qbeta viruses are also very small capsid/small RNA genome viruses; nonetheless they infect bacteria and not mammals and they are not related to picornavirus in any way.

Again: coronaviruses are not picornavirus like in any way. You may be confused because under the so-called "Baltimore scheme" they are both called "class IV" but this refers to all viruses with + strand RNA genomes. But this scheme is a only a conceptual way to help people organize different viruses schematically in their head; it does not organize them by their biological relatedness. And there are many other unrelated virus in class IV. This has been explained upthread. The picornavirus and coronavirus genomes are organized in completely different ways. Their virions are very different in structure, size, and appearance. There is no sequence relatedness between their genomes. Coronaviruses are not picornavirus-like.

As to me being ignorant and should look up stuff: I trained as a virologist and was a virologist working with many different viruses for many decades. I still work with one particular virus. I've taught virology classes. Yet rather than depend on my memory I do continue to look up stuff in virology books and on line. I did so prior to responding to your post.

As to being rude: it is not rude to try to correct mis-information and, if someone continues to insist on an incorrect fact despite honest attempts to correct them, to suggest they look it up. In fact people pay me to do this. I not only do research but I also teach at my university: my very job is to provide facts and to correct misunderstandings and most of my students appreciate learning the truth rather than continue in error.

Sorry Giordano. Your attempt at put-down doesn't work because my information comes from the scientific papers. Your logical fallacy of telling us all to believe you based on an appeal to your self-proclaimed authority, doesn't wash.

ABSTRACT
Phylogenetic analysis has demonstrated that some positive-sense RNA viruses can be classified into the picornavirus-like supercluster, which includes picornaviruses, caliciviruses, and coronaviruses. These viruses possess 3C or 3C-like proteases (3Cpro or 3CLpro, respectively), which contain a typical chymotrypsin-like fold and a catalytic triad (or dyad) with a Cys residue as a nucleophile.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3486288/

Are you going to persist in your phoney claim that 'coronavirus is not picornavirus like'?

 

[Vixen]

One thing I do not understand. A number of people have left China with the disease, yet hardly anyone (or maybe no one) has caught it from these people. If it is an infectious disease some people on the plane and airport should have got it. But they do not appear to have done so. So what is happening?

One possibility is that they were wearing masks which prevented any further spread. If that is enough then the disease should stop spreading in China. This should have already happened.

Apparently, wearing a mask offers little protection.

 

[Vixen]

Yeah, I mentioned exactly that a few days back. Early on, people weren't wearing masks on flights, and there aren't any infections coming from them - that's what I mean when I said either maths had stopped working or there's a piece of the puzzle missing.

Maybe it isn't as contagious and/or virulent in tertiary infections?
Maybe it is the foecal/oral route and a broken system somewhere contributed to the mass numbers in China?

I'm sure there's more to come.

Meanwhile, the WHO chief is saying China's extreme measures have given the world an opportunity to contain the outbreak: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51368873

I should think if a mask is porous enough to allow oxygen molecules to come through, an airborne picornavirus-like coronavirus won't have much difficulty either.

 

[Dr.Sid]

And speaking of the official numbers, only 75 new cases reported yesterday, after 3000 the day before. They're obviously lagging on test results, but 75 seems way too good to be true.

Where did you get that ? Numbers on wikipedia show almost 4000 new cases. Note that many sources (like map with graphs on arcgis.com) are updated at random intervals, as soon as new data are ready. Wikipedia uses official government statement issued once per day, and valid to specific hour. So for estimates of the trends it's much more useful.

 

[Vixen]

Actually they didn't which is why we all know about it.

All we know is the photograph of the guy sitting in front of the tank. China has never confirmed that as many as a thousand protesters were killed during the protests.

 

[alfaniner]

It would be cool if they came up with a vaccine that had some sort of dual iron component in it.

Then they could call it the "nCoV-Fe-Fe" vaccine.

 

[Belgian thought]

I should think if a mask is porous enough to allow oxygen molecules to come through, an airborne picornavirus-like coronavirus won't have much difficulty either.

What?

The diameter of O₂ is some 300 picometers, this virus approx 100 nanometers (Based on the SARS virus) or 100000 picometers.

Therefore, a suitable filter could stop the virus.

 

[Vixen]

What?

The diameter of O₂ is some 300 picometers, this virus approx 100 nanometers (Based on the SARS virus) or 100000 picometers.

Therefore, a suitable filter could stop the virus.

OK, fair enough. However, when using a face mask to protect against allergy to dust, I noticed I could still smell aromas.

Dr David Carrington, of St George's, University of London, told BBC News "routine surgical masks for the public are not an effective protection against viruses or bacteria carried in the air", which was how "most viruses" were transmitted, because they were too loose, had no air filter and left the eyes exposed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51205344

Bearing in mind, most people don't seem to be wearing surgical masks, per se.

Seems masks protect you from hand to mouth transmission but leave the eyes exposed to fast travelling droplets, as when someone sneezes or coughs.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Like the doctor who was shut down early on when the virus started.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/03/asia/coronavirus-doctor-whistle-blower-intl-hnk/index.html

This is a completely different situation.

As if the chinese government has always been truthfull and can be trusted.

This is a straw man. No one is making this argument.

 

[Ziggurat]

I should think if a mask is porous enough to allow oxygen molecules to come through, an airborne picornavirus-like coronavirus won't have much difficulty either.

When you are sick and you cough, most "airborne" pathogens are not free-floating in the air, because why would pathogens essentially evaporate from your lungs? Instead, they are usually contained within liquid droplets that you cough out. Masks don't have to filter down to the size of a virus to be effective, they only have to stop the liquid droplets.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

We know that something happened. We don't know the extent of it. Most of what we do know comes from piecing together secondary sources. We have estimates, but no good primary sources about what actually happened.

I don't think China could keep it a complete secret, but they have certainly demonstrated form in obfuscating the nature and extent of it.

All we know is the photograph of the guy sitting in front of the tank. China has never confirmed that as many as a thousand protesters were killed during the protests.

All we know is the photograph of the guy sitting in front of the tank. China has never confirmed that as many as a thousand protesters were killed during the protests.

Maybe you guys don't know what happened. Some of us read books.

There are some good primary sources like this one which I read some years back: Almost a Revolution: The Story of a Chinese Student's Journey from Boyhood to Leadership in Tiananmen Square

 

[carlosy]

Not trusting the figures you posted is not an endorsement of official Chinese government figures. Get a grip.

And that is not what I said! Get a grip yourself.

Skeptic Ginger said it is CT. A CT by whom, the Taiwan News?

If - the official numbers are doctored by the chinese government, I wouldn't call that a conspiracy. It is just what these kind of governments do.

 

[Ziggurat]

Maybe you don't know what happened. Some of us read books.

I don't really see how this is relevant. It's not like these books or any of the other information that has come out about Tienanmen have led the CCP to be honest about what happened. They're still lying even though the truth is largely known. So why would we trust them now? The truth about what's happening now might eventually come out, but there's still no reason to think we know it yet.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Apparently, wearing a mask offers little protection.

I should think if a mask is porous enough to allow oxygen molecules to come through, an airborne picornavirus-like coronavirus won't have much difficulty either.

Please see my past posts.

The masks do provide some protection because they protect from droplets. Not all of these pathogens are truly airborne, they are droplet spread.

 

[Dr.Sid]

Please see my past posts.

The masks do provide some protection because they protect from droplets. Not all of these pathogens are truly airborne, they are droplet spread.

Also masks are very good in stopping your droplets landing on other people. So in situation where everybody is wearing them, they will be useful, even if it was just a rag.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

CDC and other sources tell people masks don't work because they are talking about what people believe masks do.

How 2019-nCoV Spreads

Person-to-person spread is thought to occur mainly via respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes, similar to how influenza and other respiratory pathogens spread. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. It’s currently unclear if a person can get 2019-nCoV by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes.

If you want to be safe around people that might have this infection:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/infection-control.html

Use respiratory protection (i.e., a respirator) that is at least as protective as a fit-tested NIOSH-certified disposable N95 filtering facepiece respirator before entry into the patient room or care area.

For the record, airborne viral particles can go through an N95. It will stop droplets which are absorbed by the filter material like a sponge soaks up water.

Also note, if someone is coughing in your face, you also need eye protection.

Put on eye protection (e.g., goggles, a disposable face shield that covers the front and sides of the face) upon entry to the patient room or care area.

Hand washing does more to protect people than the masks. Also, if you don't wash your hands after removing the mask, the mask may spread contaminants instead of protecting you.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't really see how this is relevant. It's not like these books or any of the other information that has come out about Tienanmen have led the CCP to be honest about what happened. They're still lying even though the truth is largely known. So why would we trust them now? The truth about what's happening now might eventually come out, but there's still no reason to think we know it yet.

Says the person who hasn't read the book.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

What?

The diameter of O₂ is some 300 picometers, this virus approx 100 nanometers (Based on the SARS virus) or 100000 picometers.

Therefore, a suitable filter could stop the virus.

And which masks have that size filter capability? And how long could you wear a mask that was so hard to breathe through?

 

[Giordano]

I see your response seems more intent on snarkiness than anything genuine.

I have never said DNA was a protein, I said it was usually found in protein and as for your claim about women having two Y chromosomes, that is just a blatant lie on your part.

I repeat: corona virus is picornavirus like. I know because that is what it says on the science pages in google.

Just two personal observations.

In my life I've found that recognizing when I was wrong helped make me smarter and better informed. I've repeatedly benefited enormously by listening to people who knew more than I did.

I've also found "the science pages" in google vary considerably in legitimacy and accuracy.