AdMan
Penultimate Amazing
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I'm sure whatever point you want made is possible if you just need to rely on a short clip.
Ever thought to watch the whole thing?
2012 Debates
- Thread starter not_so_new
- Start date
I'm sure whatever point you want made is possible if you just need to rely on a short clip.
Ever thought to watch the whole thing?
Dorian Gray
Hypocrisy Detector
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A treasure chest... kind of like a "lock box".
RandFan
Mormon Atheist
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FTW: I actually thought back on that debate tonight.
not_so_new
Graduate Poster
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I have got to say... when Biden did his whole thing on how the 47% are paying more effective tax rate than Romney and how Romney. Biden made a LOT of really good points there about the troops and the elderly. He also scored a few points on the Grover Norquist pack and the GOP not wanting to raise taxes on the rich.
To me that was a HIT IT OUT OF THE PARK moment.
To me that was a HIT IT OUT OF THE PARK moment.
MattusMaximus
Intellectual Gladiator
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Well, I think one thing Biden did was to really get out there and represent the Democratic/liberal side unapologetically, which we needed to be done. And he did it, from what I'm hearing/seeing, with force, verve, and toughness.
And by doing so he helped really improve moral among Democrats. My Dem/liberal friends online are already fired up.
If President Obama takes a page from Biden and follows suit next week, he's going to mop the floor with Romney
ETA: Obama continues to rise on Intrade while Romney is falling. We'll see how it all shakes out over the next few days.
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ravdin
Illuminator
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No. Why would I do that?
AdMan
Penultimate Amazing
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I guess you won't need to if you think all the info you need you can get from simply a sound bite.
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
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I didn't watch the VP debate, but based upon the reaction I'm seeing here and elsewhere online, it seems to me the Democrats are getting their mojo back
Considering you are someone with a whole lot at stake it surprises me you don't watch the debates.
I guess this election isn't a life or death issue for you like it is for me.
Now my thoughts: I was never going into this unbiased. I think degenerates like Ryan ought to be locked away somewhere so we can stick probes in their brains to better understand how someone can become so full of vile contempt for life that they turn into psychopaths. So it was obviously quite enjoyable for me to watch Biden constantly harangue him, interrupt him and basically show him no respect. Because sniveling weasels like him deserve no respect.
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
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locked away... stick probes in their brains... sniveling weasels like him...
But Ryan is the psychopath full of vile contempt. Do you ever actually read what you write?
Halfcentaur
Philosopher
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The problem is Ryan has the underbite of a muppet, so his smirk comes off making him look like a delightful goblin.
Halfcentaur
Philosopher
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I think there's a very real possibility the "undecideds" think Obama has failed at getting the Republicans to compromise, whether that's due to Obama's lack of ability or if it's due to the GOP's unwillingness to budge does not matter.
I think a lot of these undecideds don't care if Romney has blatantly pandered to the extreme right wing for the last year and a half. They see him as someone who told the difficult people what they wanted to hear just to get things done, so they think he has more of a chance of a Presidency that get's things done. They don't even care that he insulted 47% of the country, it's all part of necessary pandering to the stubborn folk.
I hope I'm wrong, but listening to people talk today as well as since the debate between Obama and Romney, they don't care if Obama is inept or competent, they just want things to "get done".
I think that's really the biggest hurdle at this point for Obama to win. Romney is going to try to make himself seem like the moderate compromiser. I suppose I hope he really has been doing that if he does win, but that people would overlook a candidate calling 47% of the nation takers disturbs me a tad.
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
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To have your assessment of the debate taken seriously?
Halfcentaur
Philosopher
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Oh, did I touch a nerve by touching on the truth there?
But if you want your crap to be believed, even by the most ignorant, show the videos so they are in context; unless you can't because it is just BS stills from god-nose-where.
Gosh, I hope you are getting paid for your efforts here, like a few others!!
Explain what you think the connection is between Biden's facial expressions and the troops. Do you think he's smirking because he thinks Ryan is wrong, or do you think he smirking because he finds dead American troops funny. Maybe that's why he's been to Afghanistan, what was it he said, 27 times? To see those hilarious troops getting shot at?
Was Romney smirking while he spoke of the unemployment rate connected?
For someone talking about context, you sure seem to be using selective judgment about context.
Travis and Zig, obviously this Forum isn't the right place to settle your differences. I'll be happy to officiate the one-on-one paintball match whenever you find the courage to step up. 
---
OK, watched it. Joe did good.
Most of his smiling and interrupting didn't bother me, actually. He read the tempo of the moderator and worked with her. I did think he lost lock and got a bit grumpy at around 1:05, and there Ryan picked up some pity points, but overall I don't think he was too mean or forceful.
Instead Biden seized the initiative in a rush seven minutes in and never relinquished it. He clearly excelled in the one area Obama totally blew, namely he made it clear that he really wants the job back and he's plugged in.
I wouldn't call it a blowout. Ryan got shelled on Medicare and taxes, and he was unable to follow the careful nuance Romney's clinging to on abortion, however he averted disaster on Syria (even if he still didn't answer the question on what constitutes grounds for intervention) and finished well on the question of rancor in politics (again, avoided the question entirely, but he used his time well). Luckily for him, his best performance was in the latter part of the debate, and his stammering middle period won't be remembered as well.
Ryan was definitely head and shoulders above Palin's performance, but that's a pretty low bar. The only lower I can think of is Stockdale.
Well said. Now I confess that I thought the Romney/Obama debate was a lot closer than the consensus. The reason I thought so is because, first, there was no single soundbite of use to Romney, no single moment that Obama was pinned, rather it was a diffuse or largely intangible difference; and second, I thought by making so many radical last-minute policy changes (or dodges, or lies, time will tell), Romney hurt himself in the long run just to get a good night out of it. The polls have shown that Romney's gamble indeed paid off with a big bump, and strategically he managed to achieve a reset with his own party that until then had eluded him.
In like fashion, I don't see that Biden got any crippling single blow on Ryan, and Ryan kept it together. Ryan also appeared more engaged and hungrier than Obama did, even if he came across as somewhat overeager, junior, and unprepared as a result.
But there was some blood drawn. The one thing that startled me was Ryan attempting to walk back Romney's $2T military pledge. Biden also did a pretty good job of highlighting Romney / Ryan's utter refusal to provide specifics, while pivoting to present his own case as thoroughly decisive (maybe too much so).
In the last debate, many people criticized Jim Lehrer; I disagreed with that then and still do. I think he did fine. He created an opportunity that Romney took advantage of and Obama did not. Similarly, I think Martha Raddatz handled the debate very well, getting to good points and exerting a fine level of authority. Those who complain about the moderation in either debate are making excuses for poor performance.
Final analysis, Biden hit a nice double, players are in scoring position, it's up to Obama now. Ryan didn't drop the ball but he wasn't able to do anything with it either. A nice debate. Much more enjoyable than the last one.
My wife's final analysis, based on thirty seconds of sound: "Biden is like a crazy old uncle. That -- that other guy, sounds like a TV announcer or something. Like a twerp. I don't like him at all." Can't really disagree...
---
OK, watched it. Joe did good.
Most of his smiling and interrupting didn't bother me, actually. He read the tempo of the moderator and worked with her. I did think he lost lock and got a bit grumpy at around 1:05, and there Ryan picked up some pity points, but overall I don't think he was too mean or forceful.
Instead Biden seized the initiative in a rush seven minutes in and never relinquished it. He clearly excelled in the one area Obama totally blew, namely he made it clear that he really wants the job back and he's plugged in.
I wouldn't call it a blowout. Ryan got shelled on Medicare and taxes, and he was unable to follow the careful nuance Romney's clinging to on abortion, however he averted disaster on Syria (even if he still didn't answer the question on what constitutes grounds for intervention) and finished well on the question of rancor in politics (again, avoided the question entirely, but he used his time well). Luckily for him, his best performance was in the latter part of the debate, and his stammering middle period won't be remembered as well.
Ryan was definitely head and shoulders above Palin's performance, but that's a pretty low bar. The only lower I can think of is Stockdale.
Well said. Now I confess that I thought the Romney/Obama debate was a lot closer than the consensus. The reason I thought so is because, first, there was no single soundbite of use to Romney, no single moment that Obama was pinned, rather it was a diffuse or largely intangible difference; and second, I thought by making so many radical last-minute policy changes (or dodges, or lies, time will tell), Romney hurt himself in the long run just to get a good night out of it. The polls have shown that Romney's gamble indeed paid off with a big bump, and strategically he managed to achieve a reset with his own party that until then had eluded him.
In like fashion, I don't see that Biden got any crippling single blow on Ryan, and Ryan kept it together. Ryan also appeared more engaged and hungrier than Obama did, even if he came across as somewhat overeager, junior, and unprepared as a result.
But there was some blood drawn. The one thing that startled me was Ryan attempting to walk back Romney's $2T military pledge. Biden also did a pretty good job of highlighting Romney / Ryan's utter refusal to provide specifics, while pivoting to present his own case as thoroughly decisive (maybe too much so).
In the last debate, many people criticized Jim Lehrer; I disagreed with that then and still do. I think he did fine. He created an opportunity that Romney took advantage of and Obama did not. Similarly, I think Martha Raddatz handled the debate very well, getting to good points and exerting a fine level of authority. Those who complain about the moderation in either debate are making excuses for poor performance.
Final analysis, Biden hit a nice double, players are in scoring position, it's up to Obama now. Ryan didn't drop the ball but he wasn't able to do anything with it either. A nice debate. Much more enjoyable than the last one.
My wife's final analysis, based on thirty seconds of sound: "Biden is like a crazy old uncle. That -- that other guy, sounds like a TV announcer or something. Like a twerp. I don't like him at all." Can't really disagree...
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Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
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Cain
Straussian
Judging by what I've seen in articles and most of the posts in this thread, I'd guess that Biden won. What's interesting is that ever since Ryan's announcement conservatives have been licking their chops. Ryan was supposed to have this big policy brain. Joe Biden is supposed to be a complete idiot, miraculously elected to office again and again and again.
Anyway, for the people keeping score, it doesn't matter as much as Obama vs. Romney because this is the bottom of the ticket. Neither of these guys will ever be President (unless Obama dies, or finally admits he's a Kenyan-born terror baby).
Anyway, for the people keeping score, it doesn't matter as much as Obama vs. Romney because this is the bottom of the ticket. Neither of these guys will ever be President (unless Obama dies, or finally admits he's a Kenyan-born terror baby).
TheShadow
Scholar
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- Sep 24, 2012
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- 76
You know it's amazing to me that within half an hour of the debate ending, the GOP has a video up, in which they're selling the idea to their sheep, that Biden's smiling and laughter was somehow shocking and offensive.
Worse- you watch this video, and tell me if anything looks wrong.
Because to me, it looks like they've taken footage of Biden smiling and laughing, and inserted/matched it up with parts of the debate where he wasnt actually smiling or laughing.... am I wrong ?
I sincerely hope this video isnt put out by the Republican party, because its quite disingenous, and could likely come back and bite them in the ass.
EDITED- just checked, yep its on the RNC channel on Youtube... they should be ashamed, this is a lie !
Aside from that, I thought Biden really nailed him with the "Green Pork" discussion.
Ryan tries to slam Obama/Biden for the "wasted Billions spent on failed green energy", and yet wait... lo and behold ! Biden has emails from Ryan, where he has his hand out asking for some of that money for his own district !
Hypocrit much ?
Ryan criticized Obama several times for being weak on foriegn policy, but yet he came off looking like a confused school boy, in comparison to Bidens seasoned, and much more reasoned approach. He should have known better than to tangle horns with Biden on foriegn policy, and he completely balked when pinned into a corner about whether he'd start a war with Iran or Syria.
I'd say that Obama could take some debate lessons from his #2, and he'd likely do alot better come next week.
-TS-
Worse- you watch this video, and tell me if anything looks wrong.
Because to me, it looks like they've taken footage of Biden smiling and laughing, and inserted/matched it up with parts of the debate where he wasnt actually smiling or laughing.... am I wrong ?
I sincerely hope this video isnt put out by the Republican party, because its quite disingenous, and could likely come back and bite them in the ass.
EDITED- just checked, yep its on the RNC channel on Youtube... they should be ashamed, this is a lie !
Aside from that, I thought Biden really nailed him with the "Green Pork" discussion.
Ryan tries to slam Obama/Biden for the "wasted Billions spent on failed green energy", and yet wait... lo and behold ! Biden has emails from Ryan, where he has his hand out asking for some of that money for his own district !
Hypocrit much ?
Ryan criticized Obama several times for being weak on foriegn policy, but yet he came off looking like a confused school boy, in comparison to Bidens seasoned, and much more reasoned approach. He should have known better than to tangle horns with Biden on foriegn policy, and he completely balked when pinned into a corner about whether he'd start a war with Iran or Syria.
I'd say that Obama could take some debate lessons from his #2, and he'd likely do alot better come next week.
-TS-
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Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
Well, Huffpo, which was pretty emphatic in declaring Romney the winner of the first debate, seems to be about as hyperbolic about this one too:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader, TLA Dictator
Continuing in the Partial Audit of Fox News Debate Coverage
I'm not sure if the RNC told Fox what to do or Fox told the RNC. Maybe they're in such lock-step that they just think and act the same on everything. But anyone with any sense of journalistic integrity who gets their news from Fox either need to get, or perhaps has already received, a frontal lobotomy.
First, their interviews in the Spin Room were all loaded with,
Fox: "What did YOU think of Biden's arrogant and condescending laughter?"
Interviewee: "Uh, yeah, right. He sure was a bit much."
Then you have Greta van Susteren saying on air that she hadn't seen the RNC video, but had already posted it to her Facebook account. She realized while saying it that she sounded like the Dubious Dictionary definition of a journalist and IMHO tried to recover feebly by adding in, "I had my staff check to make sure there wasn't something completely over the top." (I paraphrase.)
Then you had Hannity interviewing, via satellite, the guy in their fake town hall symposium: Evidently he didn't like the results of the first segment, which was almost fair and balanced, so he fed long-winded and leading questions very similar to the "What did YOU think of Biden's rudeness..."
Hannity also at one point suggested that maybe Joe had tried out a little bit of the local Bourbon before the debate.
My evening ended with Hannity and Karl Rove spinning the smiley spin and Hannity confidently predicting "We'll wake up tomorrow to the lead story everywhere being Biden's behavior..." (sic - I don't have the precise words).
I watch Fox for the entertainment value and because it gets me angry enough at their malicious slant on things that I'm still motivated to participate in the electoral process, even from over here.
I'm not sure if the RNC told Fox what to do or Fox told the RNC. Maybe they're in such lock-step that they just think and act the same on everything. But anyone with any sense of journalistic integrity who gets their news from Fox either need to get, or perhaps has already received, a frontal lobotomy.
First, their interviews in the Spin Room were all loaded with,
Fox: "What did YOU think of Biden's arrogant and condescending laughter?"
Interviewee: "Uh, yeah, right. He sure was a bit much."
Then you have Greta van Susteren saying on air that she hadn't seen the RNC video, but had already posted it to her Facebook account. She realized while saying it that she sounded like the Dubious Dictionary definition of a journalist and IMHO tried to recover feebly by adding in, "I had my staff check to make sure there wasn't something completely over the top." (I paraphrase.)
Then you had Hannity interviewing, via satellite, the guy in their fake town hall symposium: Evidently he didn't like the results of the first segment, which was almost fair and balanced, so he fed long-winded and leading questions very similar to the "What did YOU think of Biden's rudeness..."
Hannity also at one point suggested that maybe Joe had tried out a little bit of the local Bourbon before the debate.
My evening ended with Hannity and Karl Rove spinning the smiley spin and Hannity confidently predicting "We'll wake up tomorrow to the lead story everywhere being Biden's behavior..." (sic - I don't have the precise words).
I watch Fox for the entertainment value and because it gets me angry enough at their malicious slant on things that I'm still motivated to participate in the electoral process, even from over here.
TheShadow
Scholar
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2012
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- 76
^^ until your last sentence, i was getting ready to ask you about your self inflicted masochistic TV watching habits...
You seriously could not pay me to watch Faux News......
If i even hear Hannity's annoying nasal high pitched voice, my stress level immediately starts increasing.
Kind of like in the old Pink Panther movies, whenever Clouseau would be around the Captain/Chief of Police... and his eye would start twitching.... that's me listening to Hannity.
-TS-
You seriously could not pay me to watch Faux News......
If i even hear Hannity's annoying nasal high pitched voice, my stress level immediately starts increasing.
Kind of like in the old Pink Panther movies, whenever Clouseau would be around the Captain/Chief of Police... and his eye would start twitching.... that's me listening to Hannity.
-TS-