12 year old files for divorce

Schrodinger's Cat said:
then again, rape is an extremely common phenomenon, and I can't see how anyone can enjoy sex when you have a screaming, crying, resisting individual fighting you back.
Click to expand...

I think you're getting caught up in an argument with bookitty that is somewhat tangential and probably also the result of talking past each other.

First off, I agree with the statement above, but there are people who do enjoy it. Evil exists.

As for bookitty's statements, let me try to rephrase what I think she's trying to say in terms that might make more sense. Rape serves many purposes (I don't think that it's never about sex, though its not only about sex), including a tool for punishment. For someone who uses rape as punishment, what you describe (screaming, crying, resisting) are all signs that the punishment is working. The rapist is causing pain, and the screaming, crying, and resisting all serve to inform the rapist that they are succeeding at doing this. If the victim were indifferent, if the punishment was ineffective, they would not bother to protest or resist. But the resistance doesn't work, the screaming, crying, and resisting doesn't stop the rape. So why struggle? Because the pain is too great not to, even though it has no effect in stopping the rape. Ponder the horror of that for a few minutes.

You said that they are signs that the rapist does not have total power. And in one sense you are right: the rapist cannot control the thoughts of the victim and make them submit willingly. But in cases of rape as a tool of punishment, the rapist wouldn't do that even if they could. It would defeat the purpose.

I don't think I would phrase it quite like bookitty did that resistance is proof of complete power (I'm not a fan of using absolutes in descriptions). But it IS a signal that the rapist has the power to deeply hurt the victim. And that is something that some people actually want. As I said, evil exists.
 
bookitty said:
Please go do some research on the power aspects of rape, and it's significance to both the attacker and the victim. It is not a subject that I care to discuss in depth.
Click to expand...

Well I wasn't trying to discuss it in depth and I don't need to do research,any more than you do.
In the context of a marriage such as we have beeen discussing, I think it is more likely that lack of resistance is the sign that the husband has (more complete) power than where resistance occurs.
But I am not convinced that in such marriages it is automatically to be assumed that the husband merely wants to inflict suffering or have complete power. The motivations are a little different, though being in control is a part of it.
I would hazard a guess that it is expected that the wife will be willing, or submit if you wish, and that the resistance is far from deisrable.
 
Where did the idea that a victim of rape always screams/cries/fights come from? That clashes with all I've heard on it before.
 
EeneyMinnieMoe said:
I still don't understand how a non-pedophile heterosexual man could want to marry and have regular sexual relations with a 6-year-old or 11-year-old girl.
Click to expand...
For one thing, there is a large difference between 6 and 11, at least in some cases. Adulthood biologically begins earlier than our present culture admits. 11 is at the edge where it would have in some cases but not others.

EeneyMinnieMoe said:
Speaking as a heterosexual adult woman, nothing in the known world or any other could ever possibly induce me to have sex with a boy
Click to expand...
Schrodinger's Cat said:
the thought of having sex with a young boy fills me with revulsion and nothing else
Click to expand...
You probably aren't conscious of how much more child-like women are than men. Other than hips and breasts, essentially every feminine trait is a juvenile trait, and juvenile traits are feminine traits. So nature, by programming (straight) men to be attracted to femininity, already has to program men to be attracted to traits that children tend to possess, while it has to program women to be attracted to the opposite kinds of traits, those that children distinctly do NOT possess. It's not that there are no difference between women and children, but the differences are less than those between men and children. So the distance from attraction to women to attraction to children is shorter than the distance from attraction to men to attraction to children.
 
Delvo said:
Where did the idea that a victim of rape always screams/cries/fights come from? That clashes with all I've heard on it before.
Click to expand...

They don't. Thank you for bring that up because it feeds into the worse myth - that a victim needs to have fought in order to have been raped.

In this case, we're specifically addressing child-brides who are acting resistant before the marriage.
 
Delvo said:
For one thing, there is a large difference between 6 and 11, at least in some cases. Adulthood biologically begins earlier than our present culture admits. 11 is at the edge where it would have in some cases but not others.

You probably aren't conscious of how much more child-like women are than men. Other than hips and breasts, essentially every feminine trait is a juvenile trait, and juvenile traits are feminine traits. So nature, by programming (straight) men to be attracted to femininity, already has to program men to be attracted to traits that children tend to possess, while it has to program women to be attracted to the opposite kinds of traits, those that children distinctly do NOT possess. It's not that there are no difference between women and children, but the differences are less than those between men and children. So the distance from attraction to women to attraction to children is shorter than the distance from attraction to men to attraction to children.
Click to expand...

I have a problem with the theory that physical signs indicate that a young girl is mature enough to have sex. 11 years old, even in cultures where girls have responsibility and mature faster, is still very young. The brain of an 11 year old hasn't had time to develop an understanding of relationships, sexuality and her own worth.
 
Delvo said:
For one thing, there is a large difference between 6 and 11, at least in some cases. Adulthood biologically begins earlier than our present culture admits. 11 is at the edge where it would have in some cases but not others.
Click to expand...

Good point- but it's still a crime for an adult man to have sex with an 11-year-old girl and, for that matter, an 11-year-old boy (well, not in the Muslim world, but you know what I mean.)

Legally, it's as much a crime as having sex with a 6-year-old girl or boy. And no 11-year-old should ever, ever, ever be married to anyone of any age.

What's that, you say? The age of consent thing is problematic? Agreed to a point. Anyway, there are countries with a lower age of consent than the US does. Like 13 in several countries. So even they would consider an adult man having sex with an 11-year-old an automatic crime.

That an 11-year-old is physically closer to a woman than a 6-year-old still doesn't make it ok. That she's more physically mature doesn't mean she's more mentally and emotionally mature.

Delvo said:
You probably aren't conscious of how much more child-like women are than men. Other than hips and breasts, essentially every feminine trait is a juvenile trait, and juvenile traits are feminine traits. So nature, by programming (straight) men to be attracted to femininity, already has to program men to be attracted to traits that children tend to possess, while it has to program women to be attracted to the opposite kinds of traits, those that children distinctly do NOT possess. It's not that there are no difference between women and children, but the differences are less than those between men and children. So the distance from attraction to women to attraction to children is shorter than the distance from attraction to men to attraction to children.
Click to expand...

Well but, come on, would you have sex with a prepubescent girl? I'd think you- and any other non-pedophile straight guy- would be about as likely to do it as I would to have sex with a little boy.

Delvo said:
Where did the idea that a victim of rape always screams/cries/fights come from? That clashes with all I've heard on it before.
Click to expand...

Good point. Some do, some don't.

Still, one would imagine an 11-year-old "bride" would show signs of discomfort as her several decades older "husband" would be robbing her of her virginity. She'd look visibly scared, be visibly confused about what was going on, close her eyes, squirm, etc.

Can't imagine it would be any fun for her or for the man, if he is sane and not a child molesting pervert.
 
Last edited:
Delvo said:
Where did the idea that a victim of rape always screams/cries/fights come from? That clashes with all I've heard on it before.
Click to expand...

Where did YOU get the idea that I said a victim always screams and fights back?

I said in 'so many cases.' I did not suggest that in all or even most cases this is true. I was thinking specifically of an NPR segment i had mentioned earlier in which they had interviewed several girls who had been beaten for resisting their husbands rapes.

Please read people's posts before responding to them.
 
kerikiwi said:
But not actually evidence of anything.
Click to expand...

Didn't say it was...

People seemed interested, people were asking for more info, and at least one person said that they thought it sounded familiar, so I provided a link to the TV show about travelers...

What's your point?
 
vIQleS said:
Didn't say it was...

People seemed interested, people were asking for more info, and at least one person said that they thought it sounded familiar, so I provided a link to the TV show about travelers...

What's your point?
Click to expand...

The point is that a fictional TV show is not a good source of information.
You didn't say it was evidence of anything, but that it was a way of providing information.
Rather contradictory, no?

But it's a bit of a sidetrack and doesn't have anything to do with the OP..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom