12 year old files for divorce

bookitty said:
Interesting thought. Are you suggesting that without the political influence of the US, that the Islamic Middle East would allow more freedom for women?
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Your response has nothing to do with what you quoted, which was the relevance of the age of the nation supporting the immoral regime and the length of time practrices have existed.
 
kerikiwi said:
Your response has nothing to do with what you quoted, which was the relevance of the age of the nation supporting the immoral regime and the length of time practrices have existed.
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True, but it did open up a much more interesting area of discourse, one that was actually related to the topic at hand. If you care to debate the cultural influence of a young society over an established one, feel free.
 
JJM 777 said:
Middle Eastern politics
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This isn't about politics. Its about society. These things can relate to each other, but they are far from synonymous. Eastern Europe had dictatorships, but it did not have these sorts of social problems (not that it didn't have any, just not of the sort this thread is about). The source of the problem is not dictatorships. I believe it's rather the reverse: these countries are susceptible to dictatorships because of their social pathologies.

Part of the story is that a certain Western country supports these regimes, because of its own interests unrelated to the human rights or democracy situation in these countries.
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No, actually, that's pretty much none of the story. If you want to criticize the West's actions on other grounds, go ahead. But the problem isn't about whether or not a given country had a dictator supported by the west. The west isn't responsible for child brides, pederasty (both boys and girls), and rape as a form of terrorist recruitment.

I wouldn't be so rude as to mention which Western country I am thinking about.
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No, you'd just pin the blame on them for a problem they aren't responsible for.
 
bookitty said:
True, but it did open up a much more interesting area of discourse, one that was actually related to the topic at hand. If you care to debate the cultural influence of a young society over an established one, feel free.
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To be fair, I didn't bring up young versus old societies, you did.
 
kerikiwi said:
To be fair, I didn't bring up young versus old societies, you did.
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Is there a question here or anything related to the subject at hand? I am a bit confused. I would reiterate my position but Ziggurat has already done a much better job.
 
Do the sexist jokes about women not being in the kitchen still apply here? Or maybe we should change kitchen to middle school, or even better, nursery. Or maybe add Easy Bake Oven into kitchen.
 
Interesting observations by the people who responded to my post. You all make very good points.

However, I have this to say. Even so, I still don't understand how a non-pedophile heterosexual man could want to marry and have regular sexual relations with a 6-year-old or 11-year-old girl.

Speaking as a heterosexual adult woman, nothing in the known world or any other could ever possibly induce me to have sex with a boy. The very thought of a woman having sex with a prepubescent boy sends chills down my spine. "Creepy" doesn't come close to describing it. Not only would I wouldn't consider doing it, I wouldn't even consider considering it.

Having sex with a 14-year-old, 15-year-old, 16-year-old...well, I would never do it but at least it's not something out of a parallel universe. I can imagine being attracted to one, even if only marginally and with zero actual action taken. I, of course, wouldn't do it but it's not absolutely alien to my nature. Not alien to any emotion I've ever had.

So I can't imagine how a 50-year-old man would be able to go to bed with a prepubescent girl and feel anything but repulsion, unless he were a pedophile.

Well, I guess that's the answer. Child marriage is a cover for pedophilia. Nothing but legalized pedophilia.
 
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Well, my understanding is that sexual relations are not the norms in these relationships. Which is not to say that it is condemned when it does happen, which is a shame.

But marriage is a legal and political tool first, and about feelings and emotions second. Whereas in the US, it is usually flipped around.

I would not be so quick to accuse Muslims of being heathens when, as far as I understand (which is not a 100% perfect understanding mind you), this is not the norm.
 
Ziggurat said:
True, but the pathologies here are not universal. There is something peculiarly evil going on. Whether it's tribal or religious or some mix, I can't say for sure, and at the end of the day I'm not sure it even matters.
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I'd say that it most likely requires a full cutural context. That is, a tribal custom which is granted the sanction of both secular and religious authority. In order to flourish at that level, there must be no significant oppositional voices raised. This is clearly a tribal practice that pre-dates Islam; but Islam itself codifies the chattel status of women. The Quran explicitly relegates them to a lower, subservient status and denotes quite a lot of what we would consider oppressive and abusive treatment; and the Hadith are full of examples of child marriage in context which clearly condone it. The Prophet himself (mhrih) is used as an example of the validity of child marriage and sexual abuse.

By contrast, in Medieval Europe, and in particular the early US, the Church frequently spoke out against the practice of child marriage. It was not as consistent in doing so as it shoud have been, but it did maintain the controversy rather than simply condoning it as Islamic authorities did. That is not to say that there is not some controversy over the practice in the Islamic world, but it's very small, and very weak by comparison.
 
EeneyMinnieMoe said:
Interesting observations by the people who responded to my post. You all make very good points.

However, I have this to say. Even so, I still don't understand how a non-pedophile heterosexual man could want to marry and have regular sexual relations with a 6-year-old or 11-year-old girl.

Speaking as a heterosexual adult woman, nothing in the known world or any other could ever possibly induce me to have sex with a boy. The very thought of a woman having sex with a prepubescent boy sends chills down my spine. "Creepy" doesn't come close to describing it. Not only would I wouldn't consider doing it, I wouldn't even consider considering it.

Having sex with a 14-year-old, 15-year-old, 16-year-old...well, I would never do it but at least it's not something out of a parallel universe. I can imagine being attracted to one, even if only marginally and with zero actual action taken. I, of course, wouldn't do it but it's not absolutely alien to my nature. Not alien to any emotion I've ever had.

So I can't imagine how a 50-year-old man would be able to go to bed with a prepubescent girl and feel anything but repulsion, unless he were a pedophile.

Well, I guess that's the answer. Child marriage is a cover for pedophilia. Nothing but legalized pedophilia.
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I hear you. while there have been insightful responses that do offer some forms of explanation...at the end I still find myself in your boat. the thought of having sex with a young boy fills me with revulsion and nothing else, and despite explanations offered above I am still ultimately unable to comprehend how a non mentally disturbed pedophile could ever look at a child and want to have sex with her. I understand not caring about being able to converse or interact with her, but I just can't understand having sex with her.

then again, rape is an extremely common phenomenon, and I can't see how anyone can enjoy sex when you have a screaming, crying, resisting individual fighting you back.

And in the case of these child brides, in so many cases you have both. You have a child who is also screaming, crying, and resisting. how anyone can want that is beyond me.
 
Schrodinger's Cat said:
I hear you. while there have been insightful responses that do offer some forms of explanation...at the end I still find myself in your boat. the thought of having sex with a young boy fills me with revulsion and nothing else, and despite explanations offered above I am still ultimately unable to comprehend how a non mentally disturbed pedophile could ever look at a child and want to have sex with her. I understand not caring about being able to converse or interact with her, but I just can't understand having sex with her.

then again, rape is an extremely common phenomenon, and I can't see how anyone can enjoy sex when you have a screaming, crying, resisting individual fighting you back.

And in the case of these child brides, in so many cases you have both. You have a child who is also screaming, crying, and resisting. how anyone can want that is beyond me.
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The screaming, crying and resisting is just proof that the rapist/husband has complete power over his bride. In a society where independence in women is frowned upon, this could even be seen as having married a "good" wife, one that is malleable.

Gods, it hurt to even write that.
 
bookitty said:
The screaming, crying and resisting is just proof that the rapist/husband has complete power over his bride. In a society where independence in women is frowned upon, this could even be seen as having married a "good" wife, one that is malleable.
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It is more like the complete opposite: a wife who resists is far from malleable, and proof that the rapist does not have complete power.
 
kerikiwi said:
Probably, but you said that the resistance is proof of complete power. It is the absence of resistance which is proof of complete power.
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Please go do some research on the power aspects of rape, and it's significance to both the attacker and the victim. It is not a subject that I care to discuss in depth.
 
Schrodinger's Cat said:
then again, rape is an extremely common phenomenon, and I can't see how anyone can enjoy sex when you have a screaming, crying, resisting individual fighting you back.

And in the case of these child brides, in so many cases you have both. You have a child who is also screaming, crying, and resisting. how anyone can want that is beyond me.
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Best guess- rapists and child rapists just don't care. They only care about having an orgasm. What the girl thinks or feels, whether she wants it, whether she doesn't want it, that they couldn't give a flip about.

Or maybe they are so self deluded and narcissistic they think their 11-year-old "wife" does want it but is just "shy" and "inexperienced" and that's why she is screaming and crying. :rolleyes: They blame the negative reaction on her virginity, not the rape. They don't even see it as rape.

Hell, maybe they actually enjoy her yelling and weeping. Maybe they enjoy inflicting the pain. Feel in control and dominant doing it.
 
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