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Who should run for the Dems?

Donal said:
Big ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ deal. We're not talking about your brother-in-law (if we take your statement at face value). All you proved is he is a big enough sucker to fall for that moral panic.

And again, no Democratic politician ran on an open border. Obama and Biden deported massive amount of migrants. If they are truly undocumented, how are they working and voting?
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Lots of uber-Progressives want undocumented to be able to work in their state. Would be just one more incentive to ignore our immigration laws.
 
Hercules56 said:
Interesting. Case in point. My brother-in-law is an extreme Progressive, raised in LA, lives in Marin county. Supporters extreme Progressive proposals, except one: he loves his daughter, and wants his daughter to live in a world where she is fairly and with respect. He opposes transwomen in womens' sports and locker rooms. He feels otherwise his daughter is not protected and not treated fairly.

As for an open border, if no undocumented persons are deported, and are allowed to work and allowed to vote, and given free housing by taxpayers, we essentially have an open-border policy.
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There's nothing more convincing than a story about a brother-in-law who coincidentally enough serves as a perfect example of the point being argued.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
The BIG one was inflation? Inflation was down to 2% in November. The BIG one was lies and fear-mongering and a population apparently completely fine with fascist policies.
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Wow, by the final end of the Biden administration, inflation had reached normal levels. That makes EVERYTHING better.

;)
 
Hercules56 said:
Lots of uber-Progressives want undocumented to be able to work in their state. Would be just one more incentive to ignore our immigration laws.
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Oh boy, I have some surprising and disturbing facts to tell you about our economy if that is what bothers you
 
Hercules56 said:
Wow, by the final end of the Biden administration, inflation had reached normal levels. That makes EVERYTHING better.

;)
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It means inflation is better, obviously. And demonstrates our economy was headed in the right direction.

We are facing the opposite direction now as we were expected to be by everyone without chronic Fox News brain rot, thanks to all the people who claimed their primary concern was the economy.
 
johnny karate said:
It means inflation is better, obviously. And demonstrates our economy was headed in the right direction.

We are facing the opposite direction now as we were expected to be by everyone without chronic Fox News brain rot, thanks to all the people who claimed their primary concern was the economy.
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We would NOT be facing more inflation again, if Kamala had said the right things and not made believe everything was perfect with Biden.
 
Hercules56 said:
We would NOT be facing more inflation again, if Kamala had said the right things and not made believe everything was perfect with Biden.
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We wouldn't be facing rising inflation and a tanking economy if people hadn't bought into propaganda that catered to their fears and prejudices and voted for the guy who was very obviously going to tank the economy. But as the data is showing us, most of these people didn't really care about the economy anyway.

Either way, blaming Democrats for not talking people out of the dumb ◊◊◊◊ they choose to believe remains a smooth-brained take.
 
Hercules56 said:
So you're saying we SHOULD give them work permits?
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They work and pay taxes. All the system you are advocating does is threaten them with prosecution for …nothing really. That creates a permanent underclass performing layer at the mercy of the benevolence or malice of their overseers. Is that what you want?

the ◊◊◊◊◊◊ up part is our economy requires undocumented workers to do those tasks. You complain about inflation and immigration, but you don't want to face the reality of how those topics are related.
 
johnny karate said:
We wouldn't be facing rising inflation and a tanking economy if people hadn't bought into propaganda that catered to their fears and prejudices and voted for the guy who was very obviously going to tank the economy. But as the data is showing us, most of these people didn't really care about the economy anyway.

Either way, blaming Democrats for not talking people out of the dumb ◊◊◊◊ they choose to believe remains a smooth-brained take.
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Biden got 81.2 million votes.

Kamala got 75 million votes.

Why do you think that is? Cuz Kamala wasn't Progressive enough?
 
Hercules56 said:
We would NOT be facing more inflation again,
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Eh, we might, that sort of thing is out of a single POTUS' hands. It probably wouldn't be as bad as it will be.
Hercules56 said:
if Kamala had said the right things and not made believe everything was perfect with Biden.
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I agree with the point about touting "greatest economy ever" but again, the alternative was not providing any real solutions.
 
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Hercules56 said:
Biden got 81.2 million votes.

Kamala got 75 million votes.

Why do you think that is? Cuz Kamala wasn't Progressive enough?
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Yes. Also, Biden wasn't aggressive enough as president. And there was a world wide anti-incumbency surge.
 
Not only did Moderate Dems beat MAGA in 2022 and 2024, but Moderate Dems beat Progressive Dems in primaries in 2024.

There is a lesson there, if you're open enough to see it.
 
Donal said:
They work and pay taxes. All the system you are advocating does is threaten them with prosecution for …nothing really. That creates a permanent underclass performing layer at the mercy of the benevolence or malice of their overseers. Is that what you want?
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I think the answer to that is clear.
 
I always thought Al Franken would be great. He'd at least be fun to watch in a debate, but a lot of people don't like him, so maybe not.


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Donal said:
They work and pay taxes. ...
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Undocumented migrants get a W-2 and pay federal, state and local taxes? They are filing their tax returns as we speak?

I doubt it, especially when they are mostly paid in cash under the table.
 
Hercules56 said:
Undocumented migrants get a W-2 and pay federal, state and local taxes? They are filing their tax returns as we speak?

I doubt it, especially when they are mostly paid in cash under the table.
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How are they getting away with not paying state and local taxes?


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AmyStrange said:
How are they getting away with not paying state and local taxes?


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They get paid in cash. No one knows they are working, so dont need to pay taxes.

That's how my co-worker pays his undocumented day laborers. $100 a piece in cash per day. No taxes paid or withheld.
 
Hercules56 said:
Undocumented migrants get a W-2 and pay federal, state and local taxes? They are filing their tax returns as we speak?

I doubt it, especially when they are mostly paid in cash under the table.
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Really?
Undocumented immigrants paid nearly $97 billion in federal, state and local taxes in 2022, according to a July 2024 report, opens new tab by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), which used data on taxpayers with ITINs to estimate tax revenue.
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The laziness of your claims is even more egregious than their inaccuracy.
 
Hercules56 said:
They get paid in cash. No one knows they are working, so dont need to pay taxes.

That's how my co-worker pays his undocumented day laborers. $100 a piece in cash per day. No taxes paid or withheld.
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How about state and local sales tax or federal excise tax on gasoline?


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AmyStrange said:
How about sales tax or federal tax on gasoline.


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Yeah, they pay sales tax when they buy stuff. Maybe. Or their clever and offer to pay in cash and no sales tax charged.

Migrant workers dont pay income tax or FICA.
 
Hercules56 said:
So how come the ONLY Dems who succeeded in 2024 and 2022, were moderate Dems???
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Tammy Baldwin is a lesbian who campaigns on Medicare for All. She held on to her seat in Wisconsin

Why did centrists like Fetterman and Sinema need to cosplay as progressives to win in swing states?

Why did Republicans need to beg Ron Johnson to not retire so he can beat Mandela Barnes by 1 point?

How come another cosplay progressive turned militant centrist Mondaire Jones couldn't beat Mike Lawler? He actually lost by a bigger margin than Sean Patrick Maloney did in 2022.

How come progressives across the country outperformed Harris?

Could it be moderate/centrists are seen as weak professional campaigners who don't actually believe in anything? Or maybe it is because moderate/centrists ARE weak professional campaigners who don't actually believe in anything?
 
It is fairly obvious that illegal immigrants are more likely to be paid under the table and work in the underground economy than citizens and legal immigrants. Anyone have any sources for estimates of undocumented pay vs the documented?
 
ahhell said:
It is fairly obvious that illegal immigrants are more likely to be paid under the table and work in the underground economy than citizens and legal immigrants. Anyone have any sources for estimates of undocumented pay vs the documented?
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All of the migrants I knew of had ss numbers and paid taxes.
 
ahhell said:
It is fairly obvious that illegal immigrants are more likely to be paid under the table and work in the underground economy than citizens and legal immigrants. Anyone have any sources for estimates of undocumented pay vs the documented?
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Sounds like a fascinating discussion for another thread.
 
Hercules56 said:
Yeah, they pay sales tax when they buy stuff. Maybe. Or their clever and offer to pay in cash and no sales tax charged.

Migrant workers dont pay income tax or FICA.
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In the agricultural sector, this is true, but in manufacturing, logistics, etc, they pay taxes and have ss numbers.
 
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