Who should run for the Dems?

Hercules56 said:
Shapiro is extremely charismatic. He's the best shot at having a Jewish President we have ever had.
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He is and that's the point. This need for the Democrats to break barriers may very well be costing the party in General Elections.
 
Hercules56 said:
Shapiro is extremely charismatic. He's the best shot at having a Jewish President we have ever had.
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I still say he's giving off Scot Walker/Ron Desantis energy. I find him to sound like a smarmy East Coast liberal. Which he is.
 
Donal said:
I still say he's giving off Scot Walker/Ron Desantis energy. I find him to sound like a smarmy East Coast liberal. Which he is.
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I have no problem with that. But he comes off pretty slick. Almost too perfect. What I like about Walz is he's just as much a liberal, maybe even more of one than Shapiro. But Walz appeals to every rural voter in America.
 
acbytesla said:
I have no problem with that. But he comes off pretty slick. Almost too perfect. What I like about Walz is he's just as much a liberal, maybe even more of one than Shapiro. But Walz appeals to every rural voter in America.
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That's what I'm unconvinced of. As a former rural voter, seems like a lot city folk think Walz appeals to rural voters and middle Americans, I don't think he actually does.
 
appeals to rural voters as much as a dem can, anyway.

rural voters as a group don't really like dems much at all, regardless of the candidate.
 
dirtywick said:
appeals to rural voters as much as a dem can, anyway.

rural voters as a group don't really like dems much at all, regardless of the candidate.
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It probably doesn't help that Democrats have spent the better part of the last twenty years making it absolutely clear that they don't like rural voters.

There's only so many times you can say you think that rural Americans are inbred racist idiots, before there's not enough Walz in the world to get you those votes back.

The Democrats should probably run someone who can convince his own party to act like rural voters are human beings, entitled to respect and compassion and a seat at the table.

ETA: Saying the Senate is undemocratic, and we should dilute the rural vote even more, probably doesn't help either.
 
not sure that i agree with your characterization of the dems and their positions on rural voters, but i do suppose they have to start somewhere.
 
theprestige said:
I confess my sample size of Dems is mostly just this forum.
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You need to get out more. Granted whoever we're talking about now is going to be drastically different than two years from now.

Not seeing a rural Dem having a shot in 2028. Maybe Walz has that kinda commonfolk charm that would resonate with rural voters - to a degree but not a scale tipper.
 
PitPat said:
You need to get out more.
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Where should I get out to? Where are these Democrats that rural voters should see as their friends?

Are you one of these friends? You're here. I don't have to get out more, to find you. But I have yet to find you speaking out against the vile hate against rural voters that is regularly expressed on this forum.
 
theprestige said:
Where should I get out to? Where are these Democrats that rural voters should see as their friends?

Are you one of these friends? You're here. I don't have to get out more, to find you. But I have yet to find you speaking out against the vile hate against rural voters that is regularly expressed on this forum.
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I don't have vile hatred toward anybody (not sure exactly what you're talking about but I would condemn it).

You can call it redistricting or gerrymandering. Rural districts are pretty much all red so their Dem voter population won't stand a chance.

The lines are drawn behind and around population centers and historical voting patterns - usually behind closed doors. Saying rural Dems have a big voice in 2028 is like saying AOC has a great chance in Alabama.
 
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theprestige said:
I confess my sample size of Dems is mostly just this forum.
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sure, i could see how you would say that.

i’d assume for one reason or another i’d perhaps be part of that sample. imo that’s an understandable mistake to make, as i have a deep dislike of conservatives at this point in my life and am not really shy about it. but, i’m also not affiliated with the dems in any way.
 
PitPat said:
I don't have vile hatred toward anybody (not sure exactly what you're talking about but I would condemn it).

You can call it redistricting or gerrymandering. Rural districts are pretty much all red so their Dem voter population won't stand a chance.

The lines are drawn behind and around population centers and historical voting patterns - usually behind closed doors. Saying rural Dems have a big voice in 2028 is like saying AOC has a great chance in the Alabama.
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that’s a good point imo. they draw these districts up so that they are majority conservative and vote that way. but these people are electing terrible candidates seemingly to spite people like me who want a functioning government with sensible, working policies. of course i dont like them. but its got nothing to do with their ruralness or anything like that. it’s their politics. i hate their politics, they produce bad outcomes and criminal leaders. demonstrably so at this point. i’m sorry if that bothers anyone.
 
ahhell said:
That's what I'm unconvinced of. As a former rural voter, seems like a lot city folk think Walz appeals to rural voters and middle Americans, I don't think he actually does.
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He does. Won congressional district that was considered red. Gun owner, career military veteran.
 
dirtywick said:
appeals to rural voters as much as a dem can, anyway.

rural voters as a group don't really like dems much at all, regardless of the candidate.
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And yet the congressional district he represented was rural. Understands rural issues. DemocratJohn Tester has won twice as the Senator from Montana
 
acbytesla said:
And yet the congressional district he represented was rural. Understands rural issues. DemocratJohn Tester has won twice as the Senator from Montana
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He may get their four electoral votes, but I don't see him testing well (forgive the pun) in a national election.
 
PitPat said:
He may get their four electoral votes, but I don't see him testing well (forgive the pun) in a national election.
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I think the mistake Democrats make is that they abandon rural voters. It's harder to win there so they give up on them. So it's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. Sure, there are bright red rural voters who probably will never vote for him. But I think he can appeal to rural voters better than any Democratic Presidential candidate since Jimmy Carter.
 
Donal said:
I still say he's giving off Scot Walker/Ron Desantis energy. I find him to sound like a smarmy East Coast liberal. Which he is.
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Shapiro's on the right wing of the party, one of the soi-disant "centrists" (think Franz von Papen, the original Quisling). He's part of the party's problem.
 
Ruben Gallego, who just won a Senate seat from Arizona, is making a trip to Iowa, a traditional visit for those planning on running. The article notes that Pete Buttigieg and Tim Walz have also spent time there. Son of immigrants, raised by a single mom, managed to get into Harvard, served in the Marines including a tour in Iraq. Has worked his way steadily up the political ladder--Arizona State Assembly, Congress and Senate. Definitely the kind of bio that will sell.

He does have some negatives. He was formerly a member of the House Progressive Caucus. Some might think that's a qualification, but the fact that he ditched the label says otherwise. He ran for the Senate on eliminating the filibuster; he's been quiet about point since the GOP took the Senate.
 
Brainster said:
Ruben Gallego, who just won a Senate seat from Arizona, is making a trip to Iowa, a traditional visit for those planning on running. The article notes that Pete Buttigieg and Tim Walz have also spent time there. Son of immigrants, raised by a single mom, managed to get into Harvard, served in the Marines including a tour in Iraq. Has worked his way steadily up the political ladder--Arizona State Assembly, Congress and Senate. Definitely the kind of bio that will sell.

He does have some negatives. He was formerly a member of the House Progressive Caucus. Some might think that's a qualification, but the fact that he ditched the label says otherwise. He ran for the Senate on eliminating the filibuster; he's been quiet about point since the GOP took the Senate.
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I loved John McCain's bio but a fat lot of good that did him. Kerry too. Both had impeccable military service records. Maybe the only time I seriously considered voting for a Republican (2000, not 2008 mind you). Charisma seems to trump (no pun intended) having a good biography on paper. They'll find some BS to smear his military service like they did with Tim Walz and Kerry.
 
Puppycow said:
I loved John McCain's bio but a fat lot of good that did him. Kerry too. Both had impeccable military service records. Maybe the only time I seriously considered voting for a Republican (2000, not 2008 mind you). Charisma seems to trump (no pun intended) having a good biography on paper. They'll find some BS to smear his military service like they did with Tim Walz and Kerry.
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Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth, would you prefer someone who hadn't been in the military? Someone with a crappy bio?
 
Brainster said:
Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth, would you prefer someone who hadn't been in the military? Someone with a crappy bio?
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No, but I'm pointing out that it doesn't seem to matter much to voters. Clinton, Obama, and Trump. None of these guys had military records. Trump even dared to criticize McCain for getting captured, and while I was one of those who thought voters would be repelled by that, it didn't seem to matter.

So, everything else being equal, having a military record is good, but it doesn't seem to correlate well with winning presidential elections lately.
 
I hate to say this. But I'm afraid of the minority candidate. While it makes no difference to me. I'd rather the Democrats chose a white heterosexual male. The emphasis on breaking barriers makes if more difficult to win.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
It's less a question of Gender/Race at this point and more about NOT Democratic Party Establishment and Big Donors.
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I don't know what it is. I never thought in a million years Trump would appeal to voters. The only thing in my view that explains this is this bigotry and sexism that seems inherent in rural America. So the Dems start in a hole.
 
I believe that's a misconception.
What I see is far less a bigotry/sexism vs PC/inclusivity devide and more an Establishment vs Outsider one: when polled in a non political way, most people are fine with racial and gender equality - it's the belief (trained in pavlovian style by the right wing media) that Being PC is being forced by The Government on you, with punishments for non-compliance.

The Left and the Right, if they even exist, are unified in a rejection of the Old Boys Club principle of Washington of dealing with lobbyists and big donors.
Clinton and Harris made themselves very much the Defenders of The Old Ways against the chaos engine Trump, and enough voters thought that any change is better than none, because no change can come from what passes as The Center in US politics.
Obama managed to style himself as an Outsider and won handily besides his chromatic shortcomings.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
I believe that's a misconception.
What I see is far less a bigotry/sexism vs PC/inclusivity devide and more an Establishment vs Outsider one: when polled in a non political way, most people are fine with racial and gender equality - it's the belief (trained in pavlovian style by the right wing media) that Being PC is being forced by The Government on you, with punishments for non-compliance.

The Left and the Right, if they even exist, are unified in a rejection of the Old Boys Club principle of Washington of dealing with lobbyists and big donors.
Clinton and Harris made themselves very much the Defenders of The Old Ways against the chaos engine Trump, and enough voters thought that any change is better than none, because no change can come from what passes as The Center in US politics.
Obama managed to style himself as an Outsider and won handily besides his chromatic shortcomings.
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I disagree. The old outsider/insider dichotomy simply is a myth. There are always insiders and outsiders that change constantly. It is the nature of politics.

Trump has his insiders as much as anyone else. Trump won the last election because of inflation and the sexism and bigotry he peddles. Walz, Harris were no more insiders than Trump is.

Trump oozes bigotry and hatred out of every pore. He has been selling his vile division toxin from day one and never slowed down. Xenophobia has been winning elections forever. And nowhere does that sell more effectively than in rural America where all their neighbors are white. White rage is a very real thing.
 
Also negative on Walz. Too nice. Election needs someone a bit hard. Needs to lead legislation to cut presidential powers. Limit the effect of executive orders to 3 months. And can't just pass the same one. Make the fate of most orders to automatically go to congress. Scrap it or pass a law.
 
acbytesla said:
I disagree. The old outsider/insider dichotomy simply is a myth. There are always insiders and outsiders that change constantly. It is the nature of politics.

Trump has his insiders as much as anyone else. Trump won the last election because of inflation and the sexism and bigotry he peddles. Walz, Harris were no more insiders than Trump is.

Trump oozes bigotry and hatred out of every pore. He has been selling his vile division toxin from day one and never slowed down. Xenophobia has been winning elections forever. And nowhere does that sell more effectively than in rural America where all their neighbors are white. White rage is a very real thing.
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all true, but Trump truly is an Outsider were it counts, able to just decide to break with decades or even centuries of US norms and laws and then do it. The people around him are Outsiders, drunks, groupies, FOX and NEWSMAXX single-opinion generators, none of which would normally get anywhere near the levers of power.
Harris might not have been an Insider, but she sure tried to play the part.

I would argue that Trump's appeal doesn't solely rest with him saying the quiet part out loud, but him being able to get away with it. People are just so eager for things not to return to the way they were before, because that way sucked for most of them. Doesn't mean that they actually do want him to brutally deport their friends, neighbors and loved ones.

My point is that "getting back to normal" is not a winning strategy. Doing things differently is.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
all true, but Trump truly is an Outsider were it counts, able to just decide to break with decades or even centuries of US norms and laws and then do it. The people around him are Outsiders, drunks, groupies, FOX and NEWSMAXX single-opinion generators, none of which would normally get anywhere near the levers of power.
Harris might not have been an Insider, but she sure tried to play the part.

I would argue that Trump's appeal doesn't solely rest with him saying the quiet part out loud, but him being able to get away with it. People are just so eager for things not to return to the way they were before, because that way sucked for most of them. Doesn't mean that they actually do want him to brutally deport their friends, neighbors and loved ones.

My point is that "getting back to normal" is not a winning strategy. Doing things differently is.
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Maybe, but the devil is in the details. IMV, Trump is the ultimate insider. The billionaires bros President that doesn't care about anyone, but them.
 
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I agree - trump and all the rich guys who are not allowed to fail anywhere but up are the True American Insiders, and have always been.
But they spend decades using the media they bought to pretend that they are opposed to, and not controllers of, the political class.
 
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