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The razor of Hitchens and the Spirits!

Why don't skeptics believe in spirits?
Why should they?

Most of these folks have never been to Africa yet they believe in Giraffes and Elephants. Why do you think that is the case? Maybe because those animals have ended up in zoos, and we have bones, biological matter, film, video, and even poop from them in lab and museum storage around the world...but there is no comparable materials pertaining to spirits.

Where is the spirit poop?

Again, just your friendly neighborhood ghost hunter asking questions.
 
ust because current scientific understanding does not support the existence of spirits does not mean they do not exist; therefore, skeptics must provide evidence for their disbelief.
 
Just because current scientific understanding does not support the existence of spirits does not mean they do not exist; therefore, skeptics must provide evidence for their disbelief.
 
ust because current scientific understanding does not support the existence of spirits does not mean they do not exist; therefore, skeptics must provide evidence for their disbelief.
That's not how the burden of proof works. Nor is it how skepticism works. Skeptics are not required to disbelieve in every conceivable thing for which there is no evidence and they're certainly not required to demonstrate why.
 
Just because current scientific understanding does not support the existence of spirits does not mean they do not exist; therefore, skeptics must provide evidence for their disbelief.

No I sodding well don't!

We've been around the burden of proof mulberry bush several times already, but you still refuse to accept that.

I'm not making the claims: you are. So back them up, preferably with something a lot more convincing than bellyache, a wobbly shoulder and Kardec.
 
Can I use an artificial intelligence argument?

You could try using just a straightforward intelligent argument. That would make a nice change.

All we've heard so far is bellyache, wobbly shoulder and "I believe in spirits because Kardec".

I mean you're better off saying "I believe in the Happy Mondays because bellyache".
 
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I need to oil a new knife, so I'm trying hard to believe in food grade mineral spirits. Off to read Kardec.

Seriously though, Calderaro, if these experiences are genuinely troubling you or interfering with your enjoyment of life or interactions with other people, you may benefit from counseling. No offense intended, just think about it.
 
I need to oil a new knife, so I'm trying hard to believe in food grade mineral spirits. Off to read Kardec.

Seriously though, Calderaro, if these experiences are genuinely troubling you or interfering with your enjoyment of life or interactions with other people, you may benefit from counseling. No offense intended, just think about it.

Ballistol is good stuff.
 
argument refuted with the help of artificial intelligence
Science can benefit from a more holistic approach that considers both empirical data and subjective experiences.
Science already does. It does not take random thoughts as subjective experiences, though. It may consider someone who thinks god is talking to them, or spirits live in their stomach, as subjectively reported evidence of schitzophrenia. As an example.
 
Science already does. It does not take random thoughts as subjective experiences, though. It may consider someone who thinks god is talking to them, or spirits live in their stomach, as subjectively reported evidence of schitzophrenia. As an example.
Who believes in spirits is schizophrenic?
 
According to artificial intelligence believe in something that does not exist like spirits for example can be beneficial to the believer?
Belief in spirits can provide emotional comfort, especially during times of grief or loss. The idea that deceased loved ones are still present in some way can help people cope with the pain of separation and find meaning in their experiences.
Spiritual beliefs are often tied to communities and cultural traditions. Participating in rituals or practices that involve communicating with spirits can strengthen social bonds and create a sense of belonging, which is beneficial for mental health and well-being.
For some people, believing in spirits can be a coping strategy that helps them deal with life’s uncertainties. This belief can provide a framework for understanding unexplained or difficult events, providing a sense of control in chaotic situations.
Belief in spirits can allow individuals to explore aspects of their identity and spirituality. This can include the search for personal meaning and understanding of the world around them, helping with identity formation and self-acceptance.
In many cultures, practices related to communicating with spirits are an integral part of traditions and rituals. These practices can play an important role in preserving culture and passing on values from generation to generation.
Although belief in spirits may be seen as unscientific, it can have significant positive effects on the emotional, social and cultural well-being of individuals. Understanding these benefits is important to recognize the complexity of the human experience and the role that beliefs play in people’s lives.
 
Back to ignoring discussion and posting copypastings. I'm outta here till something resembling a discussion pops up.
 
According to artificial intelligence believe in something that does not exist like spirits for example can be beneficial to the believer?
Belief in spirits can provide emotional comfort, especially during times of grief or loss. The idea that deceased loved ones are still present in some way can help people cope with the pain of separation and find meaning in their experiences.
Spiritual beliefs are often tied to communities and cultural traditions. Participating in rituals or practices that involve communicating with spirits can strengthen social bonds and create a sense of belonging, which is beneficial for mental health and well-being.
For some people, believing in spirits can be a coping strategy that helps them deal with life’s uncertainties. This belief can provide a framework for understanding unexplained or difficult events, providing a sense of control in chaotic situations.
Belief in spirits can allow individuals to explore aspects of their identity and spirituality. This can include the search for personal meaning and understanding of the world around them, helping with identity formation and self-acceptance.
In many cultures, practices related to communicating with spirits are an integral part of traditions and rituals. These practices can play an important role in preserving culture and passing on values from generation to generation.
Although belief in spirits may be seen as unscientific, it can have significant positive effects on the emotional, social and cultural well-being of individuals. Understanding these benefits is important to recognize the complexity of the human experience and the role that beliefs play in people’s lives.
So...placebos work. We already knew this. Not so much against cancer, but they do wonders with hypochondriacs. Modern snake-oil peddlers know the power of ritual. They know certain buzzwords draw suckers to their products, words like "Natural", "Wholistic", "Essential" are always attached to fraudulent supplements because there is a market of people trained ala Pavlov to respond by draining their wallets.

Same is true with spirits. The main reason I stopped investigating hauntings in private homes is that the people would be disappointed when I found a very non-paranormal explanation to their ghosties. My life-long investigations have left me less impressed by the supernatural than I am by the spectacular nature of the real world, and what people can do if they put their minds in gear. If you want to hide behind Woo that's your human right, but you don't get to change the rules because science won't drink your Kool-Aid.
 
So...placebos work. We already knew this. Not so much against cancer, but they do wonders with hypochondriacs. Modern snake-oil peddlers know the power of ritual. They know certain buzzwords draw suckers to their products, words like "Natural", "Wholistic", "Essential" are always attached to fraudulent supplements because there is a market of people trained ala Pavlov to respond by draining their wallets.

Same is true with spirits. The main reason I stopped investigating hauntings in private homes is that the people would be disappointed when I found a very non-paranormal explanation to their ghosties. My life-long investigations have left me less impressed by the supernatural than I am by the spectacular nature of the real world, and what people can do if they put their minds in gear. If you want to hide behind Woo that's your human right, but you don't get to change the rules because science won't drink your Kool-Aid.
What empirical evidence do you have to say that spirits do not exist?
 
What empirical evidence do you have to say that spirits do not exist?
Out of approximately 60 investigations I was able to find rational explanations for all 60 incidents in question. That's a 100% clearance rate for a guy with a limited science background. Of the few personal experiences I'd had, three remain unexplained. But that doesn't mean they will never be explained. And maybe they were actual ghosts, but the rules still apply as to burden of proof, which is the way it should be.
 
Is it allowed to discuss in this forum using artificial intelligence?
Once again, yes, you can quote from sources including AI sources so long as you state who or what the source is.

In this case your AI source said "sometimes it's nice to pretend imaginary stuff is real" but took a lot of words and repetition to say it.
 
argument refuted with the help of artificial intelligence
Science can benefit from a more holistic approach that considers both empirical data and subjective experiences.

Anecdotal/subjective evidence is not rejected by science, it is just that it is known (from considerable, hard won, experience) to be insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion. It is only sufficient to form an hypothesis, which then has to be tested in ways which carefully and methodically eliminate all ways in which we know people can inadvertently fool themselves into believing something which isn't true. So the process is:

1. Make observations

2. Form an hypothesis based on those observations

3. Design an experiment to test your hypothesis

4. Run the experiment, and report the result (whether they support or disprove your hypothesis) in the scientific literature.

For example: if many people report having pains or other symptoms which spontaneously go away when something else happens (whether that something is taking a herbal remedy or having their mother say a prayer over them) then someone might reasonably form the hypothesis that the latter is the cause of the former. That hypothesis can then be tested using the standard experiment for determining whether any medical intervention is an effective treatment for any ailment (a randomised, double blinded clinical trial).

Such experiments have often been designed and run, even when there was no scientific basis for the treatment (e.g. for homeopathy, reiki etc). They've even been run to determine the efficacy of prayer.

So we're not dismissing your experiences out of hand. We're dismissing them because every time a claim like yours has been tested, it has been shown to be false.
 
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Out of approximately 60 investigations I was able to find rational explanations for all 60 incidents in question. That's a 100% clearance rate for a guy with a limited science background. Of the few personal experiences I'd had, three remain unexplained. But that doesn't mean they will never be explained. And maybe they were actual ghosts, but the rules still apply as to burden of proof, which is the way it should be.


I find the real world things that make people believe they've experienced ghosts quite fascinating. There was a ghost hunting show that supplemented the usual 'Paranormal Investigator ' & laughable 'psychic' with a qualified building inspector & the things he spotted were amazing. There was relatively obvious stuff like ducting that could channel.sound from outside, expanding pipes & tree branches near screen windows etc, but one of the more unique things he spotted was at a 'haunted staircase' where the owner claimed spirits tried to push her down the the stairs. He noted that the drywall and ceiling had been misaligned so they didn't meet at 90° which was subtlety offputting, the staircase hadnt been quite high enough so the last couple of foot of the hall.floor had been sloped very slightly downwards to meet up and the (spiral) stairway itself didn't meet code having too small risers and no handrail. The combination of these factors made the staircase dangerous and the owner was projecting their unease using it onto an external force rather than the contractor who installed it!
 
A transgender man is a person who was assigned female at birth, but who identifies and lives as a man.A transgender man is the reincarnation of a male spirit in a female body. Transsexuality is empirical evidence of the existence of spirits.
I thought you had given up on spirits. You're simply trolling now.
 
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