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[Merged] Syrian Civil War heats up again/Damascus about to fall

theprestige said:
Worked on Germany. Worked on Japan.
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But both nations were not required to fundamentally alter their culture and got substantial aid to rebuild. And neither country had an active insurgency.
Failed in Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Somalia.
 
Imagine being a Syrian who has just spent thousands to get to the UK, to claim asylum because they opposed Assad, to find it is now safe for them back in Syria. We could swap all the Syrians for whom it is now safe to return, for all those for whom it is no longer safe.
 
Nessie said:
Imagine being a Syrian who has just spent thousands to get to the UK, to claim asylum because they opposed Assad, to find it is now safe for them back in Syria. We could swap all the Syrians for whom it is now safe to return, for all those for whom it is no longer safe.
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Give it a few years, I don't think we can say who its safe for or not just yet. At least the Islamist group that just took Damascus is talking nice about respecting rights and pluralism. We'll see if that is what they will actually happen.
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
But both nations were not required to fundamentally alter their culture and got substantial aid to rebuild. And neither country had an active insurgency.
Failed in Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Somalia.
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Indeed. I have read a study on what went wrong in Iraq, and it was obvious that in Germany and Japan, there was not the same arrogance towards the local culture as was evident in Iraq. Here the entire administration was dismissed as being tainted by Baathism, and there was no attempt to ensure that thousands of newly unemployed soldiers would have a life after the military. Instead, administration broke down, and the soldiers took their weapons and joined the militias.
Besides, as you write, after World War II money was spent to rebuild the shattered economies, but in Iraq, an effort was made to make Iraq pay for the occupation.
Some of this was probably also relevant for Afghanistan, definitely the arrogance towards the local culture.
 
Nessie said:
Imagine being a Syrian who has just spent thousands to get to the UK, to claim asylum because they opposed Assad, to find it is now safe for them back in Syria. We could swap all the Syrians for whom it is now safe to return, for all those for whom it is no longer safe.
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Is the Met that hard up for recruits?
 
I would like to know more about this deal brokered between HTS and Russia. Why would they not want revenge against the people who brutally slaughtered them, and also have significant military bases in their country ready to support a new wave of attacks. Did Turkey force this on them?
 
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a_unique_person said:
I would like to know more about this deal brokered between HTS and Russia. Why would they not want revenge against the people who brutally slaughtered them and more have significant military bases in their country ready to support a new wave of attacks. Did Turkey force this on them?
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What exactly is the deal as you understand it, I could easily see the HTS and the other Syrian factions just wanting the killing to stop after 14 years. Are they letting the Russians stay?
 
Israel is has spent the last two days raiding the old military bases around Syria. Hundreds of raids, as a result the new admin will inherit very few aircraft, maybe a few helicopters at most. All weapons sites suspected of containing chemical weapons and a whole bunch of other sites. Huge explosions all over Syria. I guess we know what Bibi thinks about the new government's claims to moderation.

They have also occupied Mt. Hermon, claiming they need it as a radar site, but it also puts them in artillery range of Damascus, like a U.S. Vietnam-era firebase.
 
a_unique_person said:
Claims that Russia has made a deal with rebels to protect Russian bases. That doesn't make sense. The Russians enabled the most brutal attacks on civilians.
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Money Talks, no one walks.
And the Russians in Syria are now useless.I supect they will be withdrawn in the near future. Putin attempt to become a player n the Mideast via Assad has been a failure.
ahhell said:
Give it a few years, I don't think we can say who its safe for or not just yet. At least the Islamist group that just took Damascus is talking nice about respecting rights and pluralism. We'll see if that is what they will actually happen.
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The record of Islamist groups when they seize power does not make one optimistic.
We heard that line from the Taliaban an looked what happened. Of course, I never bouth the Taliaban's line for a second, and I though those who did were being incredibly naive and stupid. I was right.
Still amused at how many on the hard left still try to embrace Islamist as some kind of ally .
 
crescent said:
Israel is has spent the last two days raiding the old military bases around Syria. Hundreds of raids, as a result the new admin will inherit very few aircraft, maybe a few helicopters at most. All weapons sites suspected of containing chemical weapons and a whole bunch of other sites. Huge explosions all over Syria. I guess we know what Bibi thinks about the new government's claims to moderation.

They have also occupied Mt. Hermon, claiming they need it as a radar site, but it also puts them in artillery range of Damascus, like a U.S. Vietnam-era firebase.
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I despise Bibi, but I got a feeling any Israeli PM would do the same. Israel has good reason to misturst any Islaimist claim to moderation
And even if the goverment is sincere, how are they to prevent some militatn group from grabbing said weapoins in the chaotic situation.
I wold not be surprised to see various factions among the Syrain rebels begin to fight among themselves in the near future.
Hey, it's the Mideast.
 
I think the HFS simply does not care that much abou tthe few Russians left. Not enough to concern them , really.
I suspect they will be withdrawn before toolong anyway.
 
dudalb said:
Money Talks, no one walks.
And the Russians in Syria are now useless.I supect they will be withdrawn in the near future. Putin attempt to become a player n the Mideast via Assad has been a failure.

The record of Islamist groups when they seize power does not make one optimistic.
We heard that line from the Taliaban an looked what happened. Of course, I never bouth the Taliaban's line for a second, and I though those who did were being incredibly naive and stupid. I was right.
Still amused at how many on the hard left still try to embrace Islamist as some kind of ally .
Click to expand...
Is there a problem with your comprehension?? Are you deliberately trying to be silly with all this "leftists are bad because..." stuff? Perhaps you can point to ANY "leftist" you care to name embracing Islamism, which is about as opposite to socialism as you could be. Seriously...GIVE IT A REST!
 
Norman Alexander said:
Is there a problem with your comprehension?? Are you deliberately trying to be silly with all this "leftists are bad because..." stuff? Perhaps you can point to ANY "leftist" you care to name embracing Islamism, which is about as opposite to socialism as you could be. Seriously...GIVE IT A REST!
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TIL Islamism is about laissez faire individualism.

Silly me, thinking it was about state control of everything, including belief structure and value system... Just like orthodox socialism.

Remind us: What ideal form of government are you advocating? Is it socialism? I bet it's socialism.
 
theprestige said:
TIL Islamism is about laissez faire individualism.

Silly me, thinking it was about state control of everything, including belief structure and value system... Just like orthodox socialism.

Remind us: What ideal form of government are you advocating? Is it socialism? I bet it's socialism.
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Social/Democrat governments exist that are stable and successful. You are Inferring a false dichotomy.
 
theprestige said:
TIL Islamism is about laissez faire individualism.

Silly me, thinking it was about state control of everything, including belief structure and value system... Just like orthodox socialism communism and fascism.
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Not the same as socialism at all.
theprestige said:
Remind us: What ideal form of government are you advocating? Is it socialism? I bet it's socialism.
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You bet wrong. I'm not advocating anything. Get back on topic, OK?
 
Meanwhile, the Syrian Navy is decimated. The Syrian Air Force is obliterated. (Qamishli air base in northeast Syria, the Shinshar base in the countryside of Homs, and the Aqrba airport southwest of the capital Damascus were all hit)
Also, IAF is eviscerating about every weapons depot they can target. The Israeli efforts are mainly designed to cripple attempts by Hezbollah to seize Syrian weaponry.

When all the smoke clears in this period, I am looking to see what occurs with the Kurds. They hold the key.
(espcially since they want Independence).

---- Palestinians can learn a lot from the Kurds, IMO, on how to get Israel to sympathize with a PalestineState (in Gaza/N.Sinai).
 
crescent said:
Israel is has spent the last two days raiding the old military bases around Syria. Hundreds of raids, as a result the new admin will inherit very few aircraft, maybe a few helicopters at most. All weapons sites suspected of containing chemical weapons and a whole bunch of other sites. Huge explosions all over Syria. I guess we know what Bibi thinks about the new government's claims to moderation.

They have also occupied Mt. Hermon, claiming they need it as a radar site, but it also puts them in artillery range of Damascus, like a U.S. Vietnam-era firebase.
Click to expand...
He's worried that they'll turn out to be true. Israel has a nasty habit of only allying with fascist groups and regimes.
 
dudalb said:
Money Talks, no one walks.
And the Russians in Syria are now useless.I supect they will be withdrawn in the near future. Putin attempt to become a player n the Mideast via Assad has been a failure.

The record of Islamist groups when they seize power does not make one optimistic.
We heard that line from the Taliaban an looked what happened. Of course, I never bouth the Taliaban's line for a second, and I though those who did were being incredibly naive and stupid. I was right.
Still amused at how many on the hard left still try to embrace Islamist as some kind of ally .
Click to expand...
I largely agree, I will remain cautiously optimistic for the people of Syria though. At least for a bit it will be better than the last 14 years at least.
 
ahhell said:
I largely agree, I will remain cautiously optimistic for the people of Syria though. At least for a bit it will be better than the last 14 years at least.
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Maybe, but then again it could be a continuation of the civil war followed by ISIS 2.0.
 
Manger Douse said:
Why would they? You think the Russians are likely to hit Israel anytime soon? Better to let the rats flee the sinking ship
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Indeed. Russia has no love for Israel, but they don't need another open war right now. If Russia wants to hurt Israel, all they need to do is support Iran.

But they're short on resources right now. They couldn't even afford to keep propping up Assad. So even their support for Iran is only going to be in exchange for stuff like drones, not in order for Iran to strike at Israel. That's just too low a priority for Russia.

And Israel knows this. They know Russia isn't going to strike at them directly, so why strike directly at Russia? It would serve no purpose. Israel is going to want to make sure there are no air defense systems left in Syria, but Russia probably wants to take all of those back to Russia, they have need of them. If there are any left behind, it would be because the Russians don't have custody of them for one reason or another. Israel might strike at those (again, iff they exist), but that no longer counts as striking at Russia.
 
And Russia's forces left in Syria are , well, not very much. Nothng for NFS to worry about. I got a feeling the deal is only to allow Putin a graceful exit as he pulls all Russians out of Syria.
Main problem with the NFS is that it seems to be an unstable coalition, with varous factinos, and in fighting could spill over into violence any time.
Sort of a Mini Civil War.
Israel;s main targets in the Air Strikes seem to have been anything to do with CHemical weapons..ofr obvious reasons; with the more conventinal weapon depots taking second place.
 
www.abc.net.au

In Syria, rebels discover depravity inside Assad's 'human slaughterhouse'

For decades, there have been whispers about what exactly happens at the infamous Saydnaya Military Prison. With Bashar al-Assad toppled and the complex liberated, doctors and rescuers tell the ABC what they found inside.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

Some readers may find the details in this story distressing.
 
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