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Merged Syrian Civil War heats up again/Damascus about to fall

The sleeveless cardigan/vest is a nice fashion choice! (Abu Mohammed)


(I looked up the origins of this particular garment --- named in honor of James Brudenell, 7th Earl of Cardigan, a British Army major general who led the Charge of the Light Brigade at the Battle of Balaclava during the Crimean War.)
 
Is this your famous "support for Israel" we've been hearing so much about?
No. As I have repeated over and over, I support the existence of Israel, and I support that Israel defends itself. But there is very little of Israeli politics today that I support: it is not so that every problem has a military solution, and I think that opening up a new front, and showing Syrians that Israel is an enemy is the best way to peace.

I do see that it is tempting to disarm a potential enemy, but I think that Israel should have shown restraint. Facilitating help could possibly have been a better strategy.

As for the Syrians that might die in these attacks, I wonder if Hesbollah, or the Assad dictatorship were careful to move weapons and ammunition depots well away from civilian settlements. It could be, in which case my question was void.

But I wouldn’t expect anything else from you than unwavering support of whatever Israel does, to the point that one can’t even question if whatever they do is the best. I never said that this was a crime, I only asked if it was wise to generate more hatred.
And to take up your argument from the other thread, I am speaking about hatred of Israel, not of me personally, as you cunningly twisted my words.
 
"...showing Syrians that Israel is an enemy..." -- Are you indicating that Syrians had never previously seen Israel as their enemy? That claim is unsustainable, steenk.

"Facilitating help"? Israel will facilitate it. AbuMohammed understands that very well. He knows that Syria can benefit tremendously with a peace treaty similar to those which currently exist with two former enemies (Egypt and Jordan).

The most important thing right now for Israel is to eliminate the Iran-Lebanon connection.
By closing the weapons-smuggling routes through Syrian territory, and marginalizing the Hezbollah cadres in both Syria and Lebanon, this entire situation is looking much better for Israel today than it was a month ago.

Both Syria and Lebanon will be better off without the Iranians.
 
The prevailing narrative (from H56, halfordlaes, The Atheist et al) is that all Palestinians and Syrians are innocent, and all Israelis are guilty.
Well, since none of those live in a Democracy, and Israeli do, yes: they are far more culpable.
 
"...showing Syrians that Israel is an enemy..." -- Are you indicating that Syrians had never previously seen Israel as their enemy? That claim is unsustainable, steenk.

"Facilitating help"? Israel will facilitate it. AbuMohammed understands that very well. He knows that Syria can benefit tremendously with a peace treaty similar to those which currently exist with two former enemies (Egypt and Jordan).

The most important thing right now for Israel is to eliminate the Iran-Lebanon connection.
By closing the weapons-smuggling routes through Syrian territory, and marginalizing the Hezbollah cadres in both Syria and Lebanon, this entire situation is looking much better for Israel today than it was a month ago.

Both Syria and Lebanon will be better off without the Iranians.

Then perhaps Israel should have reached out to the new government rather than jumping straight to 500+ bombing raids, occupation of more Syrian territory, and the threat of settlements in those new areas.

Obviously the old government was hostile to Israel. But this is the new government that fought to overthrow the old anti-Israeli government. Of course people within this government were anti-Israeli in the past, but claim moderation now. But rather than waiting to see if that panned out, Israel jumped straight into 500+ bombing raids.
 
"...showing Syrians that Israel is an enemy..." -- Are you indicating that Syrians had never previously seen Israel as their enemy? That claim is unsustainable, steenk.
No, I am indicating that showing possible disregard of Syrian lives will not endear them to Israel. I say “possible” because I don’t know if they did. If it turns out that only few Syrians are killed, then Israel has not done much wrong (I still think that a friendly attitude would have been wiser).
"Facilitating help"? Israel will facilitate it. AbuMohammed understands that very well. He knows that Syria can benefit tremendously with a peace treaty similar to those which currently exist with two former enemies (Egypt and Jordan).
That is well possible. In fact, I think that the new rulers (inasmuch as they control as much as we think) will not forget how Iran helped the dictator.
Both Syria and Lebanon will be better off without the Iranians.
Quite true. Just don’t try put them in a position where they think that despite Iran’s previous position, they are still the enemy’s enemy, and therefore a “friend”.
 
Then perhaps Israel should have reached out to the new government rather than jumping straight to 500+ bombing raids, occupation of more Syrian territory, and the threat of settlements in those new areas.

Obviously the old government was hostile to Israel. But this is the new government that fought to overthrow the old anti-Israeli government. Of course people within this government were anti-Israeli in the past, but claim moderation now. But rather than waiting to see if that panned out, Israel jumped straight into 500+ bombing raids.

You think the dyed in the wool death to Israel types are going to wait until the new peace and love Syrian government have sorted out their foreign policy before they take these weapons? You think they're not going to use these weapons no matter what the new peace and love Syrian governments foreign policy is? Is your family in range of these weapons?
 
You think the dyed in the wool death to Israel types are going to wait until the new peace and love Syrian government have sorted out their foreign policy before they take these weapons? You think they're not going to use these weapons no matter what the new peace and love Syrian governments foreign policy is? Is your family in range of these weapons?

Jesus, lighten up. Israel didn't even give them time to say or do anything before the bombs started flying. That's all people are saying. The best way to show you want to cooperate with a new government isn't generally to bomb the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ ◊◊◊◊ out of them right out of the gate. Perhaps, and I'm not a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ doctor here, but a conversation first would have been ok? Did it look like the new government was going to be using them overnight? They just got done with a long ass war and you think the first thing they want to do is pick a fight with Israel before they even sit down?

I don't have a lot invested in this because I don't have a lot of knowledge about it but so far between the two sides I see here there is no common ground. No wonder it's such a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ mess over there.
 
Jesus, lighten up. Israel didn't even give them time to say or do anything before the bombs started flying. That's all people are saying. The best way to show you want to cooperate with a new government isn't generally to bomb the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ ◊◊◊◊ out of them right out of the gate. Perhaps, and I'm not a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ doctor here, but a conversation first would have been ok? Did it look like the new government was going to be using them overnight? They just got done with a long ass war and you think the first thing they want to do is pick a fight with Israel before they even sit down?

I don't have a lot invested in this because I don't have a lot of knowledge about it but so far between the two sides I see here there is no common ground. No wonder it's such a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ mess over there.
I'm not talking about the new Syrian government that's totes going to be all sweetness and light - I'm talking about the dyed in the wool Jihadi types who will be using this opportunity while the security forces have fled to get their hands on some shiny new toys. Just the amount of MANPADS that will have gone missing is going to make commercial flight very interesting. "Thank You Israel for not letting it get worse" would be the appropriate thing to say
 
Well, since none of those live in a Democracy, and Israeli do, yes: they are far more culpable.
And so all Americans are guilty, because of Iraq? All Russians, who support Putin in great numbers, are not guilty, because Russia is only a democracy in name? Are you actually saying it's OK to attack civilian populations in a democracy, as legitimate military targets?
I can only hope the world never works in the way you want it to, because it would be hell on earth.
 
But I wouldn’t expect anything else from you than unwavering support of whatever Israel does, to the point that one can’t even question if whatever they do is the best.
This is an outrageous falsehood. These blatant lies do you no credit at all.

I never said that this was a crime, I only asked if it was wise to generate more hatred.

And I asked you if constantly repeating that Israel should not exist would generate or lessen the amount of hatred. You ran from this question, and are still running.
And to take up your argument from the other thread, I am speaking about hatred of Israel, not of me personally, as you cunningly twisted my words.
I cunningly twisted your words, or I misunderstood what you said? Your instant assumption of malice is telling, you know.
In my defence, your posts are often quite vague.
So, when you said haters would hate regardless of what you posted, did you mean hate you, or hate Israel? It is possible to resolve these things without instantly defaulting to 'that person is evil', you know. Try dialogue first. Just a suggestion.
 
This is an outrageous falsehood. These blatant lies do you no credit at all.
So what do you criticize about Israel’s politics against its neighbours? You constantly challenge my assertion that I am not against Israel, while claiming that you are not partisan yourself.
And I asked you if constantly repeating that Israel should not exist would generate or lessen the amount of hatred. You ran from this question, and are still running.
Non sequitur, but over time, I have stopped expecting anything else.
I cunningly twisted your words, or I misunderstood what you said? Your instant assumption of malice is telling, you know.
Pot, meet Kettle. But I admit, the word “cunningly” was used sarcastically. Why shouldn’t I assume assume malice when you repeatedly asks me a question that is intended to bring me in trouble no matter if I say yes, no, or I don’t know.
 
So what do you criticize about Israel’s politics against its neighbours? You constantly challenge my assertion that I am not against Israel, while claiming that you are not partisan yourself.
Perhaps if you read my posts, you would know what I say in my posts.
I have consistently criticised Netanyahu, for years, and also the right-wing religious extremists in his government. I have criticised the excessive response by the IDF in Gaza. I have objected to the West Bank settlements.
OK?
Non sequitur, but over time, I have stopped expecting anything else.

Pot, meet Kettle. But I admit, the word “cunningly” was used sarcastically. Why shouldn’t I assume assume malice when you repeatedly asks me a question that is intended to bring me in trouble no matter if I say yes, no, or I don’t know.
The question has no malice in it at all. Zero. I am asking you to consider the consequences of your actions, that is all. That you seem to insistent that to do such a thing is going to cause you trouble should, I suggest, make you think more about those actions and their consequences, not to angrily dismiss the idea that they should even be considered. What we do and say affects those around us. In a highly-charged subject such as this, we need to be even more careful. This is all I am saying, and I fail to find even a scintilla of malice in that thought.
 
Perhaps if you read my posts, you would know what I say in my posts.
I have consistently criticised Netanyahu, for years, and also the right-wing religious extremists in his government. I have criticised the excessive response by the IDF in Gaza. I have objected to the West Bank settlements.
OK?
Yes, that is OK. Are you sure you are not contributing to the hate against Israel with this criticism?

Never mind, don’t answer it. I don’t find this part of the discussion is leading to something valuable.
 
Yes, that is OK. Are you sure you are not contributing to the hate against Israel with this criticism?

Never mind, don’t answer it. I don’t find this part of the discussion is leading to something valuable.
Can you not see that there is a world of difference between criticising some of the politicians and policies of a country, and saying that country has no right to exist?
This discussion would lead to something valuable if you started actually dealing with what we are discussing, rather than avoiding the issues, or lying about them. Try it- you may find it productive.
 
As the world turns -----

Houthis are finding out that their feeble attempts to inflict harm against the Jewish State are 'falling short' as both the USA and Israel are well-prepared to stop incoming ballistic missiles.

To alleviate some of the Israelis' need to retaliate, CENTCOM is taking it upon themselves to hit Yemen directly.


and in Syria, the nascent 'power brokers' of that country (HTS) have declared that Israel has nothing to fear from them, and no attacks are contemplated.


Things are looking better and better with each passing day.
 
Can you not see that there is a world of difference between criticising some of the politicians and policies of a country, and saying that country has no right to exist?
I have said over and over that I support Israel’s right to exist, even though it was wrong to create Israel in the first place. How you can twist this into meaning that I say the opposite is beyond me.
 
Because it's not clear who we're even dealing with yet. Sort that out before you start trying to open up any trade.
I don't think that's good plan. I think the west should assume they are what they say they are until proven otherwise. We can always reapply the sections, in the meantime, they just cause suffering for the average folk of Syria. Honestly that generally true of all but very targeted sanctions.
 
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Sanctions Shmanctions, it's Christmastime, and Santa will be dropping into Syria with his sack fulla goodies.

Be of good cheer, ya'all.
 
I have said over and over that I support Israel’s right to exist, even though it was wrong to create Israel in the first place. How you can twist this into meaning that I say the opposite is beyond me.
No, it's not beyond you: you just don't want to address the glaring contradiction in your stance here, and so are trying to bluster your way out of it.
How do you reconcile these two opposite beliefs?
 
No, it's not beyond you: you just don't want to address the glaring contradiction in your stance here, and so are trying to bluster your way out of it.
How do you reconcile these two opposite beliefs?
They aren't opposite. Whether or not you think Israel should have been created, the fact is that it was. And getting rid of it now is a fundamentally different proposition than not having created it in the first place.
 
And so all Americans are guilty, because of Iraq? All Russians, who support Putin in great numbers, are not guilty, because Russia is only a democracy in name? Are you actually saying it's OK to attack civilian populations in a democracy, as legitimate military targets?
I can only hope the world never works in the way you want it to, because it would be hell on earth.
People taking responsibility for the actions of the government they elected would be hell on earth for you?
 
Not what I said.
What is it with Team Hamas and shifitng the goalposts?
What I said was that people should not be considered military targets because of the actions of their governments.
But you knew that.
Then rephrase your post, because as it stands, that's Exactly what it said.

Do people in a Democracy have more control and thus responsibility over the actions of their government than a dictatorship, yes or no?
 
They aren't opposite. Whether or not you think Israel should have been created, the fact is that it was. And getting rid of it now is a fundamentally different proposition than not having created it in the first place.
That is true, but I don’t think that Israel should be gotten rid of. As I have often said, that would be trying correct a wrong with another wrong: it will only lead to more misery, and possibly more indictments at the ICJ.
 
Israel is working on getting rid of Israel by alienating friends and making enemies as fast as it can.
Well, as has been pointed out, Syria was not exactly a friend of Israel before, and the new regime declares moderation, but has a history of extremism, which is not encouraging.

Jolani’s claim of being nationalistic also promises trouble over Golan.
But still, I wouldn’t have started a bombing campaign as my first interaction with a new regime.

Has there been any Syrian reaction to the bombings? Journalists are swarming into Syria now, so it should not be impossible to gauge the new position.
 
Israel is working on getting rid of Israel by alienating friends and making enemies as fast as it can.
Israel is in the business of eliminating threats. As fast as it can.
If that bothers people, too bad.

I do notice that the Irish, (no friends to begin with) are getting all worked-up (and lying about what Israel is accomplishing).

"Ireland has crossed every red line in its relations with Israel," Israel's FM said.

While the Paraguayan reaction is completely the opposite.

Israel is under no illusions regarding the lack of support from various quarters.
 
"Has there been any Syrian reaction to the bombings?" -- steenkh

Yeah, the first reaction is a huge burst of unempolyment, as they've had to tell all their fighter-jet pilots and chopper crews, naval ship crews, and tank/army truck drivers to go seek other work.
 
But Israel unprovoked attacking Syria is a total breach of international law and norms, showing once again that Israel is not even thinking about international commitments.
That makes it unqualified to enter into agreements with.
 
But still, I wouldn’t have started a bombing campaign as my first interaction with a new regime.
I would have. This is not only the easiest time for Israel to take out all those weapons, it's also the time when doing so will create the fewest Syrian casualties.
 
But Israel unprovoked attacking Syria is a total breach of international law and norms, showing once again that Israel is not even thinking about international commitments.
That makes it unqualified to enter into agreements with.
Bwhahahahahaha!

You don't actually believe this. I mean, you may believe this about Israel specifically, but you don't believe it about all the other parties in the middle east, all of whom have breached international law and norms, and yet you still want other parties to enter into agreements with them.
 
I do notice that the Irish, (no friends to begin with) are getting all worked-up (and lying about what Israel is accomplishing).
I've got some Irish heritage, and there's much to be proud of in Irish history. But their relationship with Jews has always been one of their more shameful sides. This is the country which sent condolences for Hitler's death, after all. And they have a bit of a spotty record in regards to supporting terrorism.
 
Israel is in the business of eliminating threats. As fast as it can.
If that bothers people, too bad.

I do notice that the Irish, (no friends to begin with) are getting all worked-up (and lying about what Israel is accomplishing).

"Ireland has crossed every red line in its relations with Israel," Israel's FM said.

While the Paraguayan reaction is completely the opposite.

Israel is under no illusions regarding the lack of support from various quarters.
Funny thing there, my father spent his youth in Ireland. After 50 or so years of in the US he went back and was surprised to find how anti-semitic they were. When I went, I didn't really notice it but I didn't talk politics much or read the local paper. Anecdote I know but I found it interesting.
 
Well, as has been pointed out, Syria was not exactly a friend of Israel before, and the new regime declares moderation, but has a history of extremism, which is not encouraging.

Jolani’s claim of being nationalistic also
promises trouble over Golan.But still, I wouldn’t have started a bombing campaign as my first interaction with a new regime.

Has there been any Syrian reaction to the bombings? Journalists are swarming into Syria now, so it should not be impossible to gauge the new position.

Al-Jolani/Al-Shara's government recognizes the 1974 cease-fire agreement between Syria and Israel. Which essentially recognizes that Israel controls the Golan heights such that any attempts by Syria to regain the area would be political efforts, not military.

Israel, for it's part has torn up that agreement, despite Syria having now ejected Hezbollah and Iranian troops.
 
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