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ID is an ESSENTIAL part of science education.

dogjones

Graduate Poster
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
1,303
Although I was mildly interested in evolution before, I never really had the motivation to read about it in any depth at all.

But thanks to the loudness and high media profile of ID proponents, with their smug little crowing faces and puffed up chests harping on about the need for more research and pointing to things like the eye and flagella and signatures in cells, their dishonest debating tactics, I found myself frustrated. These people seemed to display the arrogance of the ignorant... but nonetheless were more knowledgeable about the subject than me. This ticked me off enough to want to ensure for myself that they're as deluded, dishonest and Wrong as I thought they were.

So now I have read Dawkins' The Selfish Gene & The Blind Watchmaker, the whole of Douglas Theobald's 29+ Evidences and have ordered most of the books he references, plus a good many wikis, talkorigins, and have chatted to several biologists. And now I am far better educated about evolution than I ever was before, plus I realise just what an incredibly fascinating and vast subject it is to read about, and intend to keep reading.

And the cool thing is, even after the initial catalyst, the IDers seem to be maintaining my education! Whenever they point to new a gap (real or not) in our/their understanding of evolution, the inevitable refutation of their views again furthers, or reinforces, my understanding. Yes, these people are great for the layman.

So many thanks IDers! Thanks to you my understanding of the history of this planet is so, so much broader. Keep it up! You w***ers!

Dog
 
Sadly, the majority of people don't bother to question what they read or hear. But it's good to know that ID may at least get budding critical thinkers critically thinking :D
 
The only "science" class that might benefit from discussing the subject would be a class in social science. It could be helpful to understand why so many insist upon rejecting such a thoroughly established principle of nature.
 
I think ID could be immensely useful in a science classroom as an example of what science is not.
 
The only "science" class that might benefit from discussing the subject would be a class in social science. It could be helpful to understand why so many insist upon rejecting such a thoroughly established principle of nature.

probably a good idea to teach it in "history" class, it will save having to move it later.

:D
 
probably a good idea to teach it in "history" class, it will save having to move it later.
I used to think that about 40 years ago when I'd find those little pamphlets laying around in phone booths and rest rooms with cartoons about biology teachers getting humbled in their own classrooms by savvy Jehovah's Witnesses. In the last panel the teacher (drawn to look Jewish) would always concede that the Jehovah's Witness was right and evolution was impossible. I used to think those little pamphlets ought to be saved because they'd eventually become collector's items.

Well, evolution has become a lot more firmly established as fact than it was 40 years ago, yet it seems as though regard for science has gotten worse, and those little pamphlets are still around. I should have saved my comic books instead.
 
How about just going down through the highlights of the judge's decision in that case as of a few years ago?

"Put up or shut up", on the stand, most of the experts chose to shut up, and the few that put up had their ideas shot down with counterexamples.
 
Although I was mildly interested in evolution before, I never really had the motivation to read about it in any depth at all.

But thanks to the loudness and high media profile of ID proponents, with their smug little crowing faces and puffed up chests harping on about the need for more research and pointing to things like the eye and flagella and signatures in cells, their dishonest debating tactics, I found myself frustrated. These people seemed to display the arrogance of the ignorant... but nonetheless were more knowledgeable about the subject than me. This ticked me off enough to want to ensure for myself that they're as deluded, dishonest and Wrong as I thought they were.

So now I have read Dawkins' The Selfish Gene & The Blind Watchmaker, the whole of Douglas Theobald's 29+ Evidences and have ordered most of the books he references, plus a good many wikis, talkorigins, and have chatted to several biologists. And now I am far better educated about evolution than I ever was before, plus I realise just what an incredibly fascinating and vast subject it is to read about, and intend to keep reading.

And the cool thing is, even after the initial catalyst, the IDers seem to be maintaining my education! Whenever they point to new a gap (real or not) in our/their understanding of evolution, the inevitable refutation of their views again furthers, or reinforces, my understanding. Yes, these people are great for the layman.

So many thanks IDers! Thanks to you my understanding of the history of this planet is so, so much broader. Keep it up! You w***ers!

Dog


That's pretty much my story as well. I'd always been live-and-let-live when it came to religion, but ID, through the Dover trial, showed that it didn't want to let me and my kids live as we saw fit. If those fascists won that case, it would have been a serious blow to the intellectual freedom we're supposed to have, and that scared me.

So I did the only thing I could do--go to the internet.:) Now, thanks to sites like this, I know a lot more about evolution than I learned in school, and the more I know, the more sense it makes, and the more astounded I am at people who blindly reject it.
 
How about just going down through the highlights of the judge's decision in that case as of a few years ago?

"Put up or shut up", on the stand, most of the experts chose to shut up, and the few that put up had their ideas shot down with counterexamples.

Kitzmiller, et al., vs. the Dover School Board (approx.)? Behe failed epically there. "I haven't read those, but they don't matter because they don't prove anything I care about." Judge Jones was not impressed.

Total ownage in his judgment, BTW, talkorigins was kind enough to enshrine it for us. Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District
 

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