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Huck Finn

ahhell

Philosopher
Joined
Feb 2, 2017
Messages
8,611
How old should a child be before they are introduced to huck fin.

I basically feel like it should be when they can read it on their one but a parent should still read it too them?

More a question for folks from the US as its I think basically required reading for us. Probably the best introduction so racist ********** in a US context.
 
Unlike Tom Sawyer, it's not really a children's book, I'd say more appropriate for high schoolers.
 
I would basically agree that, since this is an adult book really, and a topic for interesting discussion and historical context, it would be best to leave it until a person is capable of reading it and understanding it. Whether a parent should read it to them anyway depends greatly, I think, on the child and the parent.
 
I could read anything in print by the time I was in first grade. No one ever attempted to adult-guide me about what I read or when I read it. (Except in grade school, when I sometimes had to put my SF novels aside to study stories about talking rabbits so I could learn to read.)

A few people think I turned out okay anyhow.
 
I did. Required reading in High School English. They also had me read "Catcher in the Rye". In 1960's Montana! I bet they aren't promoting such subversive reading now!
My required reading was Doctor Wooreddy's Prescription for Enduring the Ending of the World by Mudooroo Nyoongah. I hated it.
 
If they enjoy reading it, they are old enough to read it.

If they don't, well, I don't see why it should be rammed down anyone's throat.
 
Huck Finn is probably best read after Tom Sawyer. Unlike most required reading, they are really entertaining. I'm glad I wasn't required to read them. I've enjoyed them several times. You might like them.
I might, but probably not. :D I would not deny them their place in the body of literature, though. There's more to lit than just what I like.
 
Huck Finn is probably best read after Tom Sawyer. Unlike most required reading, they are really entertaining. I'm glad I wasn't required to read them. I've enjoyed them several times. You might like them.

Yup, I read it after Sawyer and it is soooooo different. Both excellent and glad I read them as a child (well, teenager with Huck).

Oddly, I had no problem in working out that Twain was writing about a specific time and places...
 
If they enjoy reading it, they are old enough to read it.

If they don't, well, I don't see why it should be rammed down anyone's throat.

Does this go for everything? Because many students don't appear to enjoy reading any books for school. Should they be excused from the entire curriculum?
 
How old should a child be before they are introduced to huck fin.

I basically feel like it should be when they can read it on their one but a parent should still read it too them?

More a question for folks from the US as its I think basically required reading for us. Probably the best introduction so racist ********** in a US context.

But perhaps a foreign perspective can be enlightning?

I first heard both Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn, as audio stories on cassette tape - both very much abbreviated to fit into 1 hr of reading, and of course translated to German (I am German). This format added nice flavor by separating chapters with a few bars of traditional American music (spirituals, folk songs). Then already, Huck was the much more fascinating story, definitely a favorite among all my audibles. I don't recall my age when I first heard these stories, but I was certainly younger than 12, and may have been as young as 8 years old. At some later age - I'd reckon I was between 12 and 14 maybe? - I also read the full books (again, German translation), with much delight, and again, Huck beat Tom easily.

Now, as a child, I knew in a general sort of way some fundamentals of American history - discovery by Columbus, settled by immigrants fron various European nations, conflict with native nations, eventually a nation "USA" emerged as a melting pot of British, German, Italian etc immigrants, there were black slaves and these were freed but gained equal rights much later... Not sure how much of that history I knew when I first heard, and when I first read, Huckleberry.
BUT I never had trouble discerning that Huck's friend, the run-away slave Jim, was a good guy, that some people picked on him because he was black - and that those people are the bad people in the book, whereas Huck treated Jim with dignity and that made him a hero in that sub-plot. I may not have fully grasped why Jim was hidden from some people in some scenes; but the fundamental humanity in Twain's prose came through with total ease, without any adult guiding me.

Today, I don't remember by which words the black man was refered to in the German translations available to me - whether some equivalent of "******" was employed, or even that word its untranslated self. What I can attest is that reading the book did not make me refer to people of African descent by any derogatory terms.
 
Does this go for everything? Because many students don't appear to enjoy reading any books for school. Should they be excused from the entire curriculum?

There are like five centuries of literature in Modern English. If the goal is to get students to read and appreciate good literature, limiting the available choices to the usual suspects seems counter-productive. I suppose it's easier for the underpaid and underappreciated teachers though. What can you do ...

But yes, even in a perfect world, some students would have to grit their teeth to get through the curriculum, just like in every subject.
 
Yup, I read it after Sawyer and it is soooooo different. Both excellent and glad I read them as a child (well, teenager with Huck).

Oddly, I had no problem in working out that Twain was writing about a specific time and places...


I had Tom Sawyer recommended to me as a child; duly read it -- although doing so was not for me a particularly miserable and reluctantly-undertaken thing, essentially I found it a bit boring: "much ado about not a great deal", and the humour struck me as often laboured and ponderous. I think my parents got the two books, Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn, as a "job lot"; maybe with my lack of enthusiasm for the former being evident, nobody obliged me to read the latter.

In my late teens, I voluntarily tried Huck Finn out of curiosity, expecting to find it "much of a muchness" with TS: to my surprise and pleasure, I was captivated by "Finn". When thus discovered by me, I found it a lot funnier than "Sawyer", and with more point to it. The funniness largely, indeed, bitter and satirical re the absurdity and cruelty of Southern whites' attitudes to blacks at time of book's action; but also, a good deal of farcical fun for its own sake --e.g. the episode of the backwoods con-men the King and the Duke. Feel that I would happily re-read "Finn" now; but would expect having to re-read "Sawyer", to be an unwelcome chore.
 
Whitewashing the fence is creating virtue from vice.
To say a German joke is no laughing matter may be a corollary to requiring the whole sentence before any meaning is derived.
 
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There are like five centuries of literature in Modern English. If the goal is to get students to read and appreciate good literature, limiting the available choices to the usual suspects seems counter-productive. I suppose it's easier for the underpaid and underappreciated teachers though. What can you do ...

But yes, even in a perfect world, some students would have to grit their teeth to get through the curriculum, just like in every subject.

Having a common "canon" of literature can be useful, though. Cultural literacy allows us to share a common body of knowledge. How many references to the Bible, or Shakespeare, etc. are just presumed to be understood in other works of art or even in regular conversation?
 
Part of what makes Hucklebetty Finn so good is that Twain is one of the few writers who can use dialect effectively.
 
I did. Required reading in High School English. They also had me read "Catcher in the Rye". In 1960's Montana! I bet they aren't promoting such subversive reading now!

Huck Finn has one of my all time favorite quotes. Is is when the Duke and the Dauphin are discussing a new scam to pull on the next town:

'Won't we have all the fools in town on our side? And isn't that a big enough majority anywhere on Earth?'.
 
Suicidal impulse? Masochism (there are probably better options)? Excessive cheerfulness?
I have Kafka for that. :D

You are really missing a great novel.
Sure, it wouldn't have the position it holds in the history of literature if it weren't a great novel. But not all great novels are to everybody's taste, and this particular one is pretty far outside my interest profile.

Put it this way: yeah, I probably should read it at some point. I remember thinking when I first read Treasure Island that my dad should have made me read it when I was 12. But it's a very long way down my list.

But hey, what am I doing here, ******** on something that other people enjoy? I hate it when other people do that, so I'm going to stop.
 
What really struck me when I reread both Tom and Huck as an adult, was how backwards I had gotten the characters of the two boys. Huck was presented as a "bad boy," a bad influence on the other kids. Years later, I saw him as doing his best after having a really rough start, while Tom was a junior conman!
 
I have Kafka for that. :D

Sure, it wouldn't have the position it holds in the history of literature if it weren't a great novel. But not all great novels are to everybody's taste, and this particular one is pretty far outside my interest profile.

Put it this way: yeah, I probably should read it at some point. I remember thinking when I first read Treasure Island that my dad should have made me read it when I was 12. But it's a very long way down my list.

But hey, what am I doing here, ******** on something that other people enjoy? I hate it when other people do that, so I'm going to stop.

I think Twain is easy reading if you just have a bit of knowledge of the time frame.

I like most of the classics, including ones where I have to work harder to understand archaic references. That is learning, right?

Th ONLY one I could not finish (and maybe Ill try again) was Flaubert's Madame Bovary. I found the reading so so soooooo tedious, It draaaaaaaged like a country carriage with a bad wheel in the mud.

I wonder if the Huck/Tom stories are banned at my kids school? Probably. The last one they gave her was Romeo & Juliet, and before that it was The Odyssey.. so they are still doing classics in 9th grade California (honors) classes, albeit hundreds of years in literature prior to Huck's publication.
 
I think Twain is easy reading if you just have a bit of knowledge of the time frame.

I like most of the classics, including ones where I have to work harder to understand archaic references. That is learning, right?

Th ONLY one I could not finish (and maybe Ill try again) was Flaubert's Madame Bovary. I found the reading so so soooooo tedious, It draaaaaaaged like a country carriage with a bad wheel in the mud.

I wonder if the Huck/Tom stories are banned at my kids school? Probably. The last one they gave her was Romeo & Juliet, and before that it was The Odyssey.. so they are still doing classics in 9th grade California (honors) classes, albeit hundreds of years in literature prior to Huck's publication.
Romeo and Juliet is nice and all, but these days they'd do the students more of a favor assigning Macbeth and Coriolanus.
 
Romeo and Juliet is nice and all, but these days they'd do the students more of a favor assigning Macbeth and Coriolanus.

Nice?

Pointless feuding and murders? Underage sex? Suicide pacts connived at by a couple of adults?

And that's before you get to what a fickle bastard Romeo is.

That said, I did enjoy Macbeth when I did it for O-level English Literature, which is more than can be said for Great Expectations and that awful book of short stories.

ETA English Literature O-level = how to put kids off literature. And I say this as one who was a voracious reader in those days.
 
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Nice?

Pointless feuding and murders? Underage sex? Suicide pacts connived at by a couple of adults?

And that's before you get to what a fickle bastard Romeo is.

That said, I did enjoy Macbeth when I did it for O-level English Literature, which is more than can be said for Great Expectations and that awful book of short stories.

ETA English Literature O-level = how to put kids off literature. And I say this as one who was a voracious reader in those days.
Macbeth is pretty timeless, I think, and full of quotable bits. But yes, I think the choices often made for school literature are ill conceived. Many are good when you're a little older and in the mood, but that does not mean they're what you ought to read when you're a teenager. As an aging adult I've found Dickens readable when I'm in the right frame of mind, and I even found Great Expectations readable, but oh how he can drag when you're not.

When I say R&J is "nice," I mean as a thing to read, not as a blueprint for anyone's society or behavior.
 
Macbeth is pretty timeless, I think, and full of quotable bits. But yes, I think the choices often made for school literature are ill conceived. Many are good when you're a little older and in the mood, but that does not mean they're what you ought to read when you're a teenager. As an aging adult I've found Dickens readable when I'm in the right frame of mind, and I even found Great Expectations readable, but oh how he can drag when you're not.

When I say R&J is "nice," I mean as a thing to read, not as a blueprint for anyone's society or behavior.

Oh which reminds me that her class also did Great Expectations. WE used an audio channel on youtube for her to read along with for that one. Dickens is so very wordy. (pay by the word more accurately)
There must have been a 4th book since that is just 3 for her 9th grade year that I recall.


What she wants me to read to her at night right now is Restaurant at the End of the Universe, though we have been stuck at Zaphod in some alternate universe on a spaceship with passengers in suspended animation for a while since she always falls asleep just as I voice the robot stewardess- and I keep having to backtrack the chapter.

It would be great if they mixed in some of the more 'fun" or sci fi/fantasy books that I like- like Adams or Vonnegut or Pratchett or Tolkien. But alas, its all geared to AP and SAT testing.
 
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