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Merged Due process in the US

Andy_Ross said:
◊◊◊◊ the courts and ◊◊◊◊ due process it seems.
Plus back to the emptying insane asylums in to the USA

Trump: "We're getting them out. And a judge can't say, 'No, you have to have a trial. The trial is gonna two take years.' No. We're gonna have a very dangerous country if we're not allowed to do what we're entitled to do."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1914791998877295053
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STFU, felon.
 
Andy_Ross said:
◊◊◊◊ the courts and ◊◊◊◊ due process it seems.
Plus back to the emptying insane asylums in to the USA

Trump: "We're getting them out. And a judge can't say, 'No, you have to have a trial. The trial is gonna two take years.' No. We're gonna have a very dangerous country if we're not allowed to do what we're entitled to do."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1914791998877295053
Click to expand...
But you are NOT entitled to do that, Donny.
 
Clutch Cargo said:
It may not matter to you but it matters to me. I don't ignore my prejudices, I nurture them.
Click to expand...
I realize I'll need to wait at least a fortnight for a response, but Cambridge Dictionary defines 'prejudice' as "an unfair or unreasonable opinion or feeling, especially when formed without enough thought or knowledge". You're literally telling us that you deliberately nurture your ignorance. Do you really? Or was that just a statement you calculated would cause shock in order to get attention?
 
IIRC, Trump (or, at least, his lawyers) has always been the absolute master of using "due process" to avoid or bog down all legal processes and penalties. He simply drags out every legal challenge he faces using requests for dismissal, appeals, and appeals against appeals, and going to higher courts, yet more appeals, and "lawyer got sick", and all sorts of other legal floofage so that he effectively tires out or times out his opponents. And even if cases eventually go against him, he appeals sentences and monetary penalties, starting the ball of wax...and the clock...rolling again.

And yet he won't let Garcia even get to first base on this legal process of even having an initial review...

What a See You Next Tuesday.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
It certainly sounds more alarming when you put that slant on it rather than the way you expressed it before: "he just hung out with them". I don't know where on the scale of culpability to put the guy. He hung out with other Salvadoreans seemingly looking for work. Or maybe selling cannabis or some other nefarious thing, IDK. The other two were both apparently gang members. They regarded him as perhaps somewhere between a 'civilian' but an okay guy to hang with or a recruit but not an initiate into their gang.

He could certainly have chosen better friends. Whether they were friends or colleagues I'm not sure. Maybe he wasn't sure either.
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"I want to be recognized as a good citizen but also associate with criminals and get caught up in criminal activities" seems like an automatic deportation to me.
 
bruto said:
I feel I should be bundling posts here, but I'll throw in another. The argument fails on several grounds. First that no crime should deprive anyone of due process. Second, that at the time of the deportation he was not here illegally, no matter what his history, and third that he was not just deported. He was not just sent back to El Salvador and dropped at the airport or something. Even if doing so would have resulted in his immediate arrest and imprisonment by the El Salvador authorities, it is simply not the same thing as what happened. He, and others like him, were extra-judicially convicted and sentenced to imprisonment in El Salvador. The decision to convict and imprison him was made in the United States by the United States.

Hercules has asserted that Garcia is the wrong person to defend, in part because he's such a bad guy that the public will reject the defense and the cause of justice will be set back. The remedy for this seems to be to let this one go, and try next time. I think that's a serious mistake. Next times are tentative and tend to stretch into more next times until it's too late.
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They weren't convicted, they were falsely imprisoned under a procedure the original nazis called preventative detention.
 
Norman Alexander said:
But Trump is a US citizen!

No, wait...

That's not a problem any more. Carry on!
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Certainly his wife must fall under such provisions. Worked as an illegal immigrant and now associates with at least one known convicted criminal.

It also follows that when Trump gets rid of birthright citizenship her anchor kid should be deported alongside her.
 
theprestige said:
"I want to be recognized as a good citizen but also associate with criminals and get caught up in criminal activities" seems like an automatic deportation to me.
Click to expand...

We've already gone over this.
Edited by Agatha: 
Edited for rules 0 and 12


He wasn't caught up in any criminal activities. The only "association with criminals" he had was standing outside a Home Depot looking for work 6 years ago, which isn't associating at all since he can't control who stands outside of Home Deport. He went to his court appearances after his arrest and followed the process, including getting a job, paying taxes, raising a family.

Can you ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ conservatives at least be consistent with your God damned whining? "They can stay if they are here legally", ok well he is. "Well they need to pay taxes", he does. Just say you'll cry about it no matter what, at least be honest about it.
 
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plague311 said:
He wasn't caught up in any criminal activities. The only "association with criminals" he had was standing outside a Home Depot looking for work 6 years ago, which isn't associating at all since he can't control who stands outside of Home Deport. He went to his court appearances after his arrest and followed the process, including getting a job, paying taxes, raising a family.
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I must remind people that the charge was loitering. I struggle to think of a milder criminal offense.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
I see we're in the classic ISF cycle of someone making a claim, having it refuted, and going, "lol, I don't understand, please explain it to me again!" for several pages.
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Every legal expert: He was denied due process.

Random crank on the internet, over and over again until the heat death of the universe: No he wasn’t!
 
Darat said:
Certainly his wife must fall under such provisions. Worked as an illegal immigrant and now associates with at least one known convicted criminal.

It also follows that when Trump gets rid of birthright citizenship her anchor kid should be deported alongside her.
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As far as I know, fearless leader has not yet been flamboyantly crazy enough to count children as "birthright citizens" if one of their parents is a citizen. So in this case, presumably after Trump has passed a paternity test and produced his long form birth certificate, his kid could stay.

Mind you, as things are going, the very idea of citizenship is in danger. Trump's proposals regarding not only birthright citizenship and arbitrary withdrawal of naturalization, but of deporting native born citizens will make it meaningless.
 
theprestige said:
"I want to be recognized as a good citizen but also associate with criminals and get caught up in criminal activities" seems like an automatic deportation to me.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you claim this guy did is actually true. Due process world help sort this out. But we all know if isn't about criminality or wrong doing. It's about deporting people of color.
 
Some people around here better watch what they say.

White House Senior Director for Counterterrorism Sebastian Gorka implied in an interview that people who support bringing Kilmar Abrego Garcia back to the United States from El Salvador may be "aiding and abetting" criminals.
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"And we have people who love America, like the president, like his cabinet, like the directors of his agencies who want to protect Americans. And then there is the
other side that is on the side of the cartel members, the side of the illegal aliens, on the side of the terrorists."

Gorka added: "You have to ask yourself, are they technically aiding and abetting them? Because aiding and abetting criminals and terrorists is a crime in federal statute."
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I have to ask myself, should Gorka go ◊◊◊◊ himself?

Why yes, yes he should.
 
bruto said:
Getting back briefly to the subject of deportation and how crazy this has become, here's a little tidbit from Jayutah's end of the country:

www.deseret.com

BYU grad student from Japan has visa revoked

Attorney for computer science Ph.D. candidate believes a fishing license incident from years ago may have triggered visa revocation.
www.deseret.com www.deseret.com

Gotta protect those fish against foreign invasion!
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That story reads as if it's gotten to the stage where deportations are being used to revenge petty personal grievances. There's no way that such a deportation would happen in a working system, no matter how cruel.
 
Tero said:
Ice and Homeland Securtiy came into existence under Bush. if I were actually in politics, I would run on a platform of scrapping it. It has become too hard to control. Its mission should be more under congress control. Not a president who will just deport all if he can. Costs alone are too hard to control. Repace it with an outfit that deals with mostly women and children from the South. Leave the MS-13 stuff for the FBI.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org

MS-13 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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The last sentence that you quoted in the follow up post is probably a massive exaggeration. Bukele rose to power on the say so of a number of criminal gangs, and they still hold the whip hand over him. Any members of a gang in prison in El Salvador are going to either be bottom feeders in for show or members of gangs hostile to those propping Bukele up.
 
Resume said:
Almost everything coming out of this administration is a outright lie, from tariffs bringing in billions, to Ukraine starting the war, to Leavitt calling Garcia a terrorist. This isn't the Trump administration, it's the Gaslight administration, and before some bothsiders chime in . . . their just ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ wrong.

Also too, Leavitt makes me long for Sean Spicer.
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It is the Nationalsozialistische Amerikanische Arbeiterpartei regime. There is no disguising it any more.
 
stanfr said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that (definitely absurd). But note that you didn't even take the time even understand the alleged coding--it's not a letter, its a *number*--the number "1" not a letter. Which means you quickly dismissed without even considering. I think the allegation is a bit of a stretch but not a major one--*when* considered together with other tattoos he supposedly has. Even the Chicago Bulls cap accusation--while taken in isolation--seems rather ridiculous without context. But given that he has no (reported) connection to Chicago, and the allegation that other gang members choose that attire, it *could* be a gang statement. The only way to find out is get some experts (not internet sleuths) together to consider the evidence for or against.
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You trying to rationalise the dictatorship's stretches is only playing into their hands.
 
Vance on Garcia radical judges versus "the will of the American People"

"I just disagree with the idea that he hasn't been offered due process. He had a couple of immigration hearings; he had a valid deportation order.
I think there's actually a deeper issue going on, which is that you see some radical judges at the district court level who are trying to layer so much "process" on top of the immigration system that it makes it impossible to function.
We have over 20 million illegal aliens in the United States of America, are we not allowed to deport them?
Because if we're not allowed to deport them, then what these district courts are saying is fundamentally, they reject the will of the American people as it was expressed in November 2024."
 
Andy_Ross said:
Vance on Garcia radical judges versus "the will of the American People"

"I just disagree with the idea that he hasn't been offered due process. He had a couple of immigration hearings; he had a valid deportation order.
I think there's actually a deeper issue going on, which is that you see some radical judges at the district court level who are trying to layer so much "process" on top of the immigration system that it makes it impossible to function.
We have over 20 million illegal aliens in the United States of America, are we not allowed to deport them?
Because if we're not allowed to deport them, then what these district courts are saying is fundamentally, they reject the will of the American people as it was expressed in November 2024."
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Okay, I've come to express the lying in absolutely every statement, but I still haven't quite gotten used to them saying the quiet part out loud.
 
NEWSMAX: Why not just deport him to, say, Chile? You wouldn't be violating the judge's ruling because he's not in El Salvador.

DHS OFFICIAL TRICIA McLAUGHLIN: We are fully abiding by the US Constitution. That's what we do in the Trump administration each and every day.
 
Andy_Ross said:
NEWSMAX: Why not just deport him to, say, Chile? You wouldn't be violating the judge's ruling because he's not in El Salvador.

DHS OFFICIAL TRICIA McLAUGHLIN: We are fully abiding by the US Constitution. That's what we do in the Trump administration each and every day.
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Constitution doesn't give the government the authority to deport people to foreign prisons if they have not been convicted of a crime.
 
Andy_Ross said:
NEWSMAX: Why not just deport him to, say, Chile? You wouldn't be violating the judge's ruling because he's not in El Salvador.
Click to expand...
Chile hasn't got a KZ jail, nor a deal with Donny.
Andy_Ross said:
DHS OFFICIAL TRICIA McLAUGHLIN: We are fully abiding by the US Constitution. That's what we do in the Trump administration each and every day.
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Failed stand-up comedy material.
 
All that hard work done by the last UK Tory government on planning to deport people to Rwanda hasn't gone to waste as now the US government is doing so.
www.theguardian.com

Trump aides plot deportation effort inspired by UK Rwanda plan – report

Wall Street Journal notes that British example may not be a good one, as ‘plan hasn’t gone into effect yet ‘amid legal challenges’
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

ETA
I suppose this is reverse extraordinary rendition. Snatched off US streets (or prison) and 'freed' overseas, in a country where he knows no one, may not speak the language and has no financial resources? Also he is wanted by Iraq, I do not know if rwanda has an extradition treaty with Iraq, but judges in the US had refused to allow extradition to Iraq.
 
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DHS official Tricia McLaughlin attacks Abrego Garcia's wife: "I think it's important to point to her credibility ... now she's pushing this sob story ... I think most couples fight, so I unfortunately think this woman is burning down her own credibility as well."
 
Vance on Garcia radical judges versus "the will of the American People"
Andy_Ross said:
"I just disagree with the idea that he hasn't been offered due process. He had a couple of immigration hearings; he had a valid deportation order.
I think there's actually a deeper issue going on, which is that you see some radical judges at the district court level who are trying to layer so much "process" on top of the immigration system that it makes it impossible to function.
We have over 20 million illegal aliens in the United States of America, are we not allowed to deport them?
Because if we're not allowed to deport them, then what these district courts are saying is fundamentally, they reject the will of the American people as it was expressed in November 2024."
Click to expand...
The number of illegal immigrants seems to increase every time they mention it. At this rate, it's only a matter of time before more than 100% of the US population are illegal.
 
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