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Challenging James Randi

Cassidy

Muse
C
Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
981
Hello JREF members,
I have taken a year out to put together a test suitable for the JREF challenge. It took months retrieving the requirements for such a challenge. Finding a journalist willing to write up a few lines regarding certain paranormal activity he'd witnessed, was difficult. Obtaining a letter from my GP was a lot easier. Both documents were sent off with a completed application form to the JREF address supplied (Dec 2014)

February 14th 2015 I received an email informing me that my application was complete, that I was responsible for all costs, and did I have a protocol in mind. I forwarded a suggested test protocol on the 17th February and await a reply.

I've sent a polite reminder but haven't received any reply. I don't mind the waiting, I'm sure the JREF are an extremely busy organisation.

Just wondering if any members have an idea of how long completed applications take before a preliminary test usually takes place?

I've long purchased the equipment required, gathering dust but ready to be delivered to a JREF rep here in the UK for inspection.

Thank you kindly for any information/response you have to offer on the matter.
 
P.S>: That is why you have 22 views but only one comment (+ this explanation) .
 
Sorry, the comment did not go through:::
It said approximately: This site is not affiliated in any way with JREF and has no contact with same for any practical purpose. If you are unaware of this, you may be assured that addressing your question to us is exactly as useful to you as addressing it to the U.S. Congress - with the difference that at least you got this response.........
 
Is this all hush-hush or can you share the protocol?

While we are not affiliated with JREF, many of us are still very much intrigued by the million-dollar challenge and those out to win it.
 
Might find it better to go for one of the other prizes. Or forget about prizes, use your skills to make money or earn an income. But then it depends on what your skill is.
 
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Cassidy said:
I've sent a polite reminder but haven't received any reply. I don't mind the waiting, I'm sure the JREF are an extremely busy organisation.

Just wondering if any members have an idea of how long completed applications take before a preliminary test usually takes place?
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That is highly suspicious. You should have had a response by now. I doubt they're as busy as you think.

Hopefully, someone here will try to find out for you, because I'd be interested in the legal status of the mio if they're not accepting challenges, and that is their prime raison d'etre. (aside from milking cash from TAMs)

While we wait, what area of paranormality are we talking about here?

Do you have a link to the article the journalist wrote?
 
The Atheist said:
That is highly suspicious. You should have had a response by now. I doubt they're as busy as you think.

Hopefully, someone here will try to find out for you, because I'd be interested in the legal status of the mio if they're not accepting challenges, and that is their prime raison d'etre. (aside from milking cash from TAMs)

While we wait, what area of paranormality are we talking about here?

Do you have a link to the article the journalist wrote?
Click to expand...

The Atheist said:
That is highly suspicious. You should have had a response by now. I doubt they're as busy as you think.

Hopefully, someone here will try to find out for you, because I'd be interested in the legal status of the mio if they're not accepting challenges, and that is their prime raison d'etre. (aside from milking cash from TAMs)

While we wait, what area of paranormality are we talking about here?

Do you have a link to the article the journalist wrote?
Click to expand...

(I hope the attachment has worked)

I 'd joined this site a while back, after being overwhelmed by strange activity from unseen forces. I was terrified but I'm ok with it now. I came here searching for idea's, and got caught up with a lot of insulting replies and I couldn't handle it any more. I don't blame folk for their disbelief, that's what these challenges are about, if I can get a foot the door.

I tried a local challenge here in the UK instead, and it was just a mess. I wasn't allowed to claim the ability I wanted to claim, and I wasn't allowed to take the challenge live, and half way through the challenge it was stopped. Protocol was broken from the off and despite the challenge being abruptly stopped, the organisation had already published an article in their magazine claiming that the outcome of the challenge was a "Fail" The article was published whilst the challenge was still taking place.

I took time out, and starting testing this force without the fears. We have a good demonstration going now, that results in "unexplainable" broken diamonds, and that's part of my claim.

I took the demonstration to a journalist and it took 6 weeks to squeeze an article from him because he got scared by it. I just want to take a legal challenge, from start to finish, with witnesses present., as it should be. Then hopefully hand the cash to charity and that's me done.

The GP is the only person in authority that has been fantastic. He wrote me a great updated letter for this challenge. I'm not sure what a letter like that ought to reveal to such a challenge, but he practically testified to what he's been witnessing for over 18 months, although, he uses the words "appears to be able to.."

I do find it a bit suspicious that I haven't heard word back since February, considering their email ended with asking me a question. Maybe it's the GP's letter that's caused delay, or maybe it does take months per reply, I've no idea.

I don't want to get into any arguments again, or upset folk here, I just want to take a legal challenge in the correct way.



 
Sounds perfectly fine to me, and it sounds like it should be very easy to arrange.

I'll keep a watch on developments - if any.

I'm not going to make any comment on your abilities, but you're certainly playing your side of it correctly.

Don't go making excuses for why JREF might not have been back in contact, either. They advertise the challenge and rules; the onus is on them to respond.
 
Cassidy said:
I 'd joined this site a while back, after being overwhelmed by strange activity from unseen forces. I was terrified but I'm ok with it now. I came here searching for idea's, and got caught up with a lot of insulting replies and I couldn't handle it any more.
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Here's the previous thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259768

ETA: Handy chronology here, although it obviously won't include everything: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=9854549#post9854549
 
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Could always send another e-mail politely asking for a response. You never know your last one might have been mistaken for spam. You should ask for an e-mail address that does not get flooded with spam to respond to.
 
I've written two polite reminders (Mid March & April) It's unlikely that the emails are directed to spam, I'm clicking on "reply to sender" but it's possible.
 
Mojo said:
I was looking for posts from that thread that were about the diamonds, and that was just one that I happened to look at.
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Hi Mojo, thanks for that link. Those days were frightening times, but the worse is done and we've stepped up well since then, and that what couldn't be heard due to basic /poor equipment, can be heard without doubt now. Would you like to hear an example? The old thread, sectioned off with much missing, is still just armchair "speculation" It was only a matter of time, trial & error, and with a GP's blessing, I'm looking forward to this challenge, when James Randi allows it.
 
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Cassidy said:
Hi Mojo, thanks for that link. Those days were frightening times, but the worse is done and we've stepped up well since then, and that what couldn't be heard due to basic /poor equipment, can be heard without doubt now. Would you like to hear an example? The old thread, sectioned off with much missing, is still just armchair "speculation" It was only a matter of time, trial & error, and with a GP's blessing, I'm looking forward to this challenge, when James Randi allows it.
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The old thread is not "sectioned off", it is in the "General Skepticism and The Paranormal" forum exactly where it always was, and is still open (I've just bumped it to put it back on the first page). As far as I can see there isn't anything missing from it. That woud be the place to post or discuss examples of things that "can be heard without doubt now".

To get back on topic for this forum: what was the suggested test protocol you sent?
 
Cassidy,

Welcome back. I'm glad that you are well and that you are still pursuing the challenge.

Here's what I suggest: Write to the JREF again and let them know (if it's true) that you are willing and able and can afford to travel to Las Vegas from July 16-19. That is when The Amazing Meeting is (https://www.amazingmeeting.com/). They always seem desperate to have someone to test at the meeting. They have bent the rules in the past in order to have a demonstration. In your case, there should be no need to bend the rules.

Let them know that you can travel and then the only impediment will be whether you can hammer out a testing protocol which is acceptable to both you and the JREF. If you had trouble with your local skeptics group, you might have a similar problem with JREF. Can you think of any way to overcome that?

Good Luck,
Ward
 
Cassidy said:
I've written two polite reminders (Mid March & April) It's unlikely that the emails are directed to spam, I'm clicking on "reply to sender" but it's possible.
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Which address are you sending to? There is hardly anyone left at JREF as far as I know, and those who are there are probably concentrating on organising TAM.

(Also, when did you change your user name to Cassidy?)
 
Looking at this thread and the one in GS&P i am hard pressed to come with an protocol for a test as I am not sure I understand the claim.

"I can break diamonds with my mind"

Is that accurate? Is that an acceptable claim?
 
From the "about" section of randi.org

2.3 Does my claim count as paranormal?

Past claims have included: psychic or mediumistic powers, ESP, dowsing, magnetic humans, astrology, faith healing, etc. Read through the JREF forum for a list of previous applicants if you’d like to see whether or not your claim has been tested before. A partial list can be found at: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=43

If you are submitting a claim that works off a previous assumption, you have to present evidence proving the assumption correct first. For instance, there was a man who claimed that his mustache curled in the presence of ghosts. In order to test this, you would first have to prove the existence of ghosts. And if you did that, the person who proved that ghosts exist would win the million dollars.
Another true situation: A man claimed he could stop earthquakes prior to them happening. When asked how we would test this, he replied: "I will predict an earthquake in advance. You will get a clairvoyant, who is real, to validate my prediction. I will then stop the earthquake six months prior to it happening." If we found a "genuine clairvoyant" surely that person would win the million dollars. (For the record, this was prior to a big earthquake in Japan, which he did nothing about.)

Furthermore, some claims are simply untestable. For example, claiming that you are able to make someone feel happy by talking to them is untestable, because it is impossible to objectively gauge someone’s level of happiness, especially if they have been told that after talking to you they should feel happy. If your claim is untestable, there is nothing that can be done to alter that status unless you find a new claim or negotiate a protocol in which the results are self-evident and objectively testable.

You may receive communications from the JREF about the nature of your claim. The JREF will want extremely specific details about the precise scope of your ability.
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The two highlighted portions bear relevance in this case, IMO. If you are claiming psychic powers break the diamonds it would seem you need to prove psychic powers exist.

Also there seems to be a general lack of detail in your claim.

I included the rest of the paragraph because the bit about the mustache and the earthquakes made me laugh.
 
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Biscuit said:
Looking at this thread and the one in GS&P i am hard pressed to come with an protocol for a test as I am not sure I understand the claim.

"I can break diamonds with my mind"

Is that accurate? Is that an acceptable claim?
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The claim seems to be that the spirits will break the diamonds if they are in the mood to do so. Cassidy is irrelevant to their claimed moods.

Handy out, no?
 
Biscuit said:
From the "about" section of randi.org

The two highlighted portions bear relevance in this case, IMO. If you are claiming psychic powers break the diamonds it would seem you need to prove psychic powers exist.
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She is carefully NOT making that claim. She is claiming that the spirits have that ability (although what use it is to them is unfathomable). Should she fail, then the spirits were obviously not in the mood.

Biscuit said:
Also there seems to be a general lack of detail in your claim.
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There is a reason for that.

Biscuit said:
I included the rest of the paragraph because the bit about the mustache and the earthquakes made me laugh.
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What should we think of someone who claims to be able to prevent earthquakes saving thousands of lives, yet refuses to do so? Either he/she is lying, or he/she is one miserably evil ****.
 
http://web.randi.org/the-million-dollar-challenge.html
4.3 What kind of communication will I receive during my application process?

When your application has been received and processed, you will get message from the JREF notifying you that your application has been received. You will be notified if your application has been accepted, or if not, why not (it was incomplete, not filled out entirely, etc.). You will also receive a message about any concerns or protocol alterations that might be helpful.

Developing a mutually agreed upon protocol can be a long process, so please do not send an e-mail asking about updates. Your application was not the only one received, and it takes time to create workable protocols. You will be notified how you can check for yourself online as to the status of your application.
Once you have received your message either asking for clarification or approving the protocol you have outlined, the protocol will be forwarded to members of JREF’s Million Dollar Challenge committee to work out an approved Challenge, and the details for a preliminary test will be put in place.
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Hope this helps.
 
I'm willing to bet that that paragraph is referring to this forum when they used to update information about applicants which they had not done for years even before the forum changed hands.

Ward
 
abaddon said:
She is carefully NOT making that claim. She is claiming that the spirits have that ability (although what use it is to them is unfathomable). Should she fail, then the spirits were obviously not in the mood.
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In that case, according to my reading of the rules, she would need to prove spirits exist and psychic abilities exist. She is making it more difficult for herself.

If she is going to try and prove spirits exist by blasting white noise through cheap PC speakers I doubt she will get the response she is seeking. (Unless that response she is looking for is attention of any kind.)

abaddon said:
There is a reason for that.
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No doubt!

abaddon said:
What should we think of someone who claims to be able to prevent earthquakes saving thousands of lives, yet refuses to do so? Either he/she is lying, or he/she is one miserably evil ****.
Click to expand...

Of course that person could be delusional and based on the claimed protocol I would say for certain that is the case.
 
Cassidy said:
February 14th 2015 I received an email informing me that my application was complete, that I was responsible for all costs, and did I have a protocol in mind. I forwarded a suggested test protocol on the 17th February and await a reply.
Click to expand...


In the other thread you have said that you haven't yet worked out your protocol:
Cassidy said:
I've emailed and outlined how I can demonstrate these abilities, and await a response. When I hear word back, I can work out a good/fair protocol.
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Did you actually send a protocol on 17th February, or was it just a restatement of your claim?
 
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