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[Merged] 9th Circuit Strikes Down "May Issue" Concealed carry In California

WildCat

NWO Master Conspirator
Joined
Mar 23, 2003
Messages
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So California had a "may ssue" concealed carry licensing system, in which it was left up to the opinion of the local sheriff whether or not the license was issued. San Diego County, for all intents and purposes, denied this right to every applicant - unless, of course, you had the appropriate political connections. The 9th Circuit just tossed that law out the window, ruling that self defense outside the home was a core right guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment's right to bear arms.

The ruling.

Some relevant passages:
Our conclusion that the right to bear arms includes the right to carry an
operable firearm outside the home for the lawful purpose of self-defense is perhaps unsurprising—other circuits faced with this question have expressly held, or at the very least have assumed, that this is so.

Put simply, a law that destroys (rather than merely burdens) a right central to the Second Amendment must be struck down.


We thus disagree with those courts—including the district court in this
case—that have taken the view that it is not necessary (and, thus, necessary not) to decide whether carrying a gun in public for the lawful purpose of self-defense is a constitutionally protected activity. See, e.g., Drake, 724 F.3d at 431; Woollard, 712 F.3d at 876; Kachalsky, 701 F.3d at 89; cf. Masciandaro, 638 F.3d at 475.


Understanding the scope of the right is not just necessary, it is key to our analysis. For if self-defense outside the home is part of the core right to “bear arms” and the California regulatory scheme prohibits the exercise of that right, no amount of interest-balancing under a heightened form of means-ends scrutiny can justify San Diego County’s policy.

And the 8th criticized recent 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Circuit Court decisions upholding "may issue":
Our reading of the Second Amendment is akin to the
Seventh Circuit’s interpretation in Moore, 702 F.3d at 936–42,20 and at odds with
the approach of the Second, Third, and Fourth Circuits in Drake, 724 F.3d at
431–35, Woollard, 712 F.3d at 876, and Kachalsky, 701 F.3d at 89, 97–99.
a
We are unpersuaded by the decisions of the Second, Third, and Fourth
Circuits for several reasons. First, contrary to the approach in Heller, all three
courts declined to undertake a complete historical analysis of the scope and nature
of the Second Amendment right outside the home. Compare Heller, 554 U.S. at
605 (examining the post-ratification interpretations of the Second Amendment
because “the public understanding of a legal text in the period after its enactment
or ratification” is “a critical tool of constitutional interpretation” (emphasis
omitted)), with Drake, 724 F.3d at 431 (noting that the court was “not inclined to
address [text, history, tradition and precedent] by engaging in a round of fullblown
historical analysis” and relying on the Second Circuit’s conclusion that
“[h]istory and tradition do not speak with one voice” (quoting Kachalsky, 701 F.3dat 91)); Woollard, 712 F.3d at 874–76 (declining to “impart a definitive ruling”
regarding the scope of the Second Amendment right), and Kachalsky, 701 F.
3d at 91 (refusing to look at “highly ambiguous history and tradition to determine the
meaning of the Amendment”). As a result, they misapprehend both the nature of
the Second Amendment right and the implications of state laws that prevent the
vast majority of responsible, law-abiding citizens from carrying in public for
lawful self-defense purposes.

For example, in Kachalsky, the Second Circuit’s perfunctory glance at the
plaintiffs’ historical argument misunderstood the historical consensus regarding the
right to bear arms outside the home. Relying on three cases, the court concluded
that “history and tradition [did] not speak with one voice” regarding the ability to
restrict public carry because at least three states “read restrictions on the public
carrying of weapons as entirely consistent with constitutional protections.”
Kachalsky, 701 F.3d at 90–91 (citing Fife v. State, 31 Ark. 455 (1876), English, 35
Tex. at 473, and Andrews v. State, 50 Tenn. 165 (1871)). But in its brief historical
analysis, the court missed a critical factor: the cases it cites in favor of broad public
carry restrictions adhere to a view of the Second Amendment that is and always
has been incorrect. Cf. Moore, 702 F.3d at 941 (referencing “disagreement . . .
with some of the historical analysis in [Kachalsky because] we regard the historical
65 issues as settled in Heller”). All three cases interpret the Second Amendment as a
militia-based (rather than a self-defense-centered) right; they uphold regulations on
carrying pistols in public because pistols are not the type of weapons that would be
used by militia men. See Fife, 31 Ark. at 461 (upholding a prohibition against
carrying pistols in public because such weapons are “used in private quarrels and
brawls” and are not “effective as a weapon of war, and useful and necessary for
‘the common defense’”); English, 35 Tex. at 475 (“[W]e shall be led to the
conclusion that the [Second Amendment] protects only the right to ‘keep’ such
‘arms’ as are used for purposes of war, in distinction from those which are
employed in quarrels and broils, and fights between maddened individuals . . . .”);
Andrews, 50 Tenn. at 186–87 (affirming the constitutionality of a law regulating
public carry of certain weapons which were not the “usual equipment of the
soldier” but remanding for consideration of whether a revolver was the “character
of weapon” used in warfare).

Because the Second Amendment has always been an individual right to
defend oneself, cases that—like these—uphold gun regulations because they do not offend the militia-based nature of the right are inapposite and should not factor into
a historical analysis of the right’s scope. See, e.g., Heller, 554 U.S. at 605. And
with these cases off the table, the remaining cases speak with one voice: states may
not destroy the right to bear arms in public under the guise of regulating it. See,
e.g., Kachalsky, 701 F.3d at 90 (recognizing that some state courts “offered
interpretations of the Second Amendment” consistent with the plaintiffs’ position
that “though a state may regulate open or concealed carrying of handguns, it cannot
ban both”); see also Drake, 724 F.3d at 449 (Hardiman, J., dissenting) (noting that
the “crux of the[] historical precedents[] endorsed by the Supreme Court, is that a
prohibition against both open and concealed carry without a permit is different in
kind, not merely in degree, from a prohibition covering only one type of carry”).
In light of Heller, the Second Circuit erred in outright rejecting history and tradition as unhelpful and ambiguous, and the Third and Fourth Circuits erred in
following suit.

A great victory for civil rights in California, now with the circuit split (7th and 9th cs. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th) clarification by the SCOTUS looks unavoidable, and I'm betting they rule consistent with Heller and the plain meaning of the 2nd Amendment.
 
But before the SCOTUS hears it, the loser has to appeal it.
 
Good ol' 9th circuit. They read past "keep" all the way to the next phrase "and bear".

Next test, "Open Carry Restrictions" which just lately took effect. Though I haven't heard about any cases in the works.
 
Good ol' 9th circuit. They read past "keep" all the way to the next phrase "and bear".

Next test, "Open Carry Restrictions" which just lately took effect. Though I haven't heard about any cases in the works.
The 7th Circuit ruled, and the 9th cited it in this opinion, that you have to allow either open carry or concealed, either one satisfies the right to bear arms.

I like how 13 pages was devoted to calling out the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th circuits on their bizarre legal reasoning and using rational basis but pretending it was intermediate scrutiny.
 
Deleted Post, , my fat fingers hit some keyboard short cut. Prbaly Windows/t?
 
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The gun board 'experts' are saying that because the three justices did such a good job of looking into precedents, it's not likely to be accepted by either 9th En Banc, nor the SCOTUS.

Plus in another case decided today, the L.A. Sheriff's Dept has to publish their regs re: CCW. And also be a prime regulator, it's OK to go around the local PD and direct to the LASD. But that one is only local and is being overshadowed by the OP case.

The OP case will be binding on the whole 9th Circuit area- Ca, Wa, Or, Hi, Nv, all the islands.....
 
I thought the dissenting opinion (by Justice Thomas) was very persuasive.
 
Another case of reality not getting into the head of gun nuts.

No, 'they're' not coming for your guns. 'They're' actually making things easier. Its as plain as day!
 
Another case of reality not getting into the head of gun nuts.

No, 'they're' not coming for your guns. 'They're' actually making things easier. Its as plain as day!

"Put simply, a law that destroys (rather than merely burdens) a right central to the Second Amendment must be struck down."
 
Ninth Circuit strikes down California concealed carry "may-issue" license policy.

California must allow law-abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms in public, a federal appeals court ruled Thursday, striking down the core of the state's permit system for handguns.

In a 2-1 decision, the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco said San Diego County violates the Constitution's Second Amendment by requiring residents to show "good cause" - and not merely the desire to protect themselves - to obtain a concealed-weapons permit.


http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Court-strikes-California-law-restricting-5232386.php

This is something that's been in the works for awhile now, post Heller and Mcdonald.

I'm sure that it will end up in front of the SC, but California and the other 7 states clinging to "may-issue" or "no-issue" licensing schemes are in for an interesting ride.

The existing California law has been successfully challenged in certain counties (in general, all Concealed Carry permits are issued at the county level) with the result that the issuing agency goes to "shall-issue" in everything but name, but the urban counties are just digging in and refusing to cooperate to the point that in S.F. county it's extremely difficult to obtain just the application for the license (a violation of state law in itself) unless the applicant is known to the agency before the request is made and the OK has already been given to supply the application to the individual in question.

Another road block that S.F. and some other agencies use is that they have only one point of contact for the application and vetting process, and that individual is either unavailable or otherwise occupied unless the individual applicant has already been Ok'ed by either agency administration or other political authorities - depending on the jurisdiction, the guy they don't know that walks in off the street requesting a CCP might find it impossible to make contact with that appropriate officer for up to a year before they can finally meet.

One factor that has contributed to the success of earlier civil actions against individual counties is that during the discovery phase, it's been found that some agencies that refuse to issue carry permits do in fact issue permits to political supporters, wealthy locals, etc. who in fact note in their application that the good cause purpose of the permit is for "self-defense," and these same agencies reject self-defense as good cause for other applicants.

It also helps that when you have two plantiff's in a case and one is a lesbian who has been the victim of a hate crime that also happens to be a former LEO and a certified firearms instructor and the other a retired LEO who simply moved from one county to the next, and neither was issued a carry permit by the agency they successfully filed action against... no political connections and neither had donated money to the Sheriff's re-election campaign, when that turned out that in cross-checking of successful applicants shows that contributing to the Sheriff's war chest was a prerequisite for permit issuance...

I'll be watching for future developments.
 
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Wildcat beat me to it:

California must allow law-abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms in public, a federal appeals court ruled Thursday, striking down the core of the state's permit system for handguns.

In a 2-1 decision, the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco said San Diego County violates the Constitution's Second Amendment by requiring residents to show "good cause" - and not merely the desire to protect themselves - to obtain a concealed-weapons permit.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/C...ng-5232386.php

This is something that's been in the works for awhile now, post Heller and Mcdonald.

I'm sure that it will end up in front of the SC, but California and the other 7 states clinging to "may-issue" or "no-issue" licensing schemes are in for an interesting ride.

The existing California law has been successfully challenged in certain counties (in general, all Concealed Carry permits are issued at the county level) with the result that the issuing agency goes to "shall-issue" in everything but name, but the urban counties are just digging in and refusing to cooperate to the point that in S.F. county it's extremely difficult to obtain just the application for the license (a violation of state law in itself) unless the applicant is known to the agency before the request is made and the OK has already been given to supply the application to the individual in question.

Another road block that S.F. and some other agencies use is that they have only one point of contact for the application and vetting process, and that individual is either unavailable or otherwise occupied unless the individual applicant has already been Ok'ed by either agency administration or other political authorities - depending on the jurisdiction, the guy they don't know that walks in off the street requesting a CCP might find it impossible to make contact with that appropriate officer for up to a year before they can finally meet.

One factor that has contributed to the success of earlier civil actions against individual counties is that during the discovery phase, it's been found that some agencies that refuse to issue carry permits do in fact issue permits to political supporters, wealthy locals, etc. who in fact note in their application that the good cause purpose of the permit is for "self-defense," and these same agencies reject self-defense as good cause for other applicants.

It also helps that when you have two plantiff's in a case and one is a lesbian who has been the victim of a hate crime that also happens to be a former LEO and a certified firearms instructor and the other a retired LEO who simply moved from one county to the next, and neither was issued a carry permit by the agency they successfully filed action against... no political connections and neither had donated money to the Sheriff's re-election campaign, when that turned out that in cross-checking of successful applicants shows that contributing to the Sheriff's war chest was a prerequisite for permit issuance...

I'll be watching for future developments.


ETA, I'll ask the mods to delete the thread I started this AM.
 
Finally, the 9th Circuit Court gets it right. This ruling is going to do so much for freedom-loving Californians when it comes to creating the illusion of personal security.
 
Unless I'm misreading this, this is a case of a more stringent gun law being struck down, no?

It's not so much a "gun law" per se but a policy of license issuance adopted pretty much statewide.

What news reports and the court decision leaves out is the whole of the process that a carry permit applicant needs to go through in California from the simple purchase of a handgun forward to the application itself, and the additional hurdles individual jurisdictions include in their local policies - million dollar liability insurance, psychological evaluations, reference statements from "prominent" community members, etc.

The local spin is that other courts have upheld restrictions on concealed carry license schemes, and the Ninth is somehow far out in left field with this ruling, ignoring the fact that 42 other states follow a "shall-issue" policy or in some cases a "no permit required" policy.

The local anti-gun folks (and there's a whole slough of orgs. funded by charitable funds, not individual members) are already spinning this ruling as requiring no standards for license issuance, which is ridiculous, but California anti's are not noted for accuracy in reporting.

The way this ruling would shake out (if upheld) for California is that most conditions of permit issuance would be fine (classroom and range training and qualification) some, like the million dollar liability policy (which I recommend highly but don't believe passes the Constitutional sniff test) will be struck down, and the list of permit holders can't be legally restricted to campaign donors, legislators, celebrities or politicians.

The real crux of this suit is the (completely subjective) "good cause" requirement that allows a Sheriff to issue a permit to a campaign donor for self defense but allows him to deny the permit for someone under real threat that claims self defense for their good cause - don't laugh - the Calguns foundation has instituted a statewide survey of the issuance policies of the 58 counties in California and over and over again in urban areas permits were approved for select individuals for the good cause of self defense when the written policy of the issuing agency was that self defense does not constitute good cause for permit issuance.

It would be funny if it wasn't such a violation of civil rights.
 
I am glad what has been corrupt abuse of power has been stopped. But I am saddened it appears it has become easier for not necessarily suitable people to have a gun.
 
I am glad what has been corrupt abuse of power has been stopped. But I am saddened it appears it has become easier for not necessarily suitable people to have a gun.
Way to ignore the facts--AKA "Cherry Picking"

It's not so much a "gun law" per se but a policy of license issuance adopted pretty much statewide.

What news reports and the court decision leaves out is the whole of the process that a carry permit applicant needs to go through in California from the simple purchase of a handgun forward to the application itself, and the additional hurdles individual jurisdictions include in their local policies - million dollar liability insurance, psychological evaluations, reference statements from "prominent" community members, etc.
The local spin is that other courts have upheld restrictions on concealed carry license schemes, and the Ninth is somehow far out in left field with this ruling, ignoring the fact that 42 other states follow a "shall-issue" policy or in some cases a "no permit required" policy.

The local anti-gun folks (and there's a whole slough of orgs. funded by charitable funds, not individual members) are already spinning this ruling as requiring no standards for license issuance, which is ridiculous, but California anti's are not noted for accuracy in reporting.

The way this ruling would shake out (if upheld) for California is that most conditions of permit issuance would be fine (classroom and range training and qualification) some, like the million dollar liability policy (which I recommend highly but don't believe passes the Constitutional sniff test) will be struck down, and the list of permit holders can't be legally restricted to campaign donors, legislators, celebrities or politicians.
The real crux of this suit is the (completely subjective) "good cause" requirement that allows a Sheriff to issue a permit to a campaign donor for self defense but allows him to deny the permit for someone under real threat that claims self defense for their good cause - don't laugh - the Calguns foundation has instituted a statewide survey of the issuance policies of the 58 counties in California and over and over again in urban areas permits were approved for select individuals for the good cause of self defense when the written policy of the issuing agency was that self defense does not constitute good cause for permit issuance.

It would be funny if it wasn't such a violation of civil rights.
 
I am glad what has been corrupt abuse of power has been stopped. But I am saddened it appears it has become easier for not necessarily suitable people to have a gun.

No, it hasn't. How do you figure? This has nothing to do with being able to obtain a gun. It only has to do with being allowed to legally carry it on one's person in public. The same people who have guns now will still have guns, and people who aren't allowed to have guns still will not be allowed to have guns.
 
The original California whackadoodle gun laws resulted from the mainstream culture's fear of the Black Panthers.

Restricting CCW on a "may issue" basis was intended to keep the right the sole domain of "acceptable" people, as identified by the cops.

Very bad idea.

Set a standard and hold everybody to it.

Good job, 9TH.
 
The original California whackadoodle gun laws resulted from the mainstream culture's fear of the Black Panthers.

Restricting CCW on a "may issue" basis was intended to keep the right the sole domain of "acceptable" people, as identified by the cops.

Very bad idea.

Set a standard and hold everybody to it.

Good job, 9TH.

Correct. The Panthers went to Sacramento armed, underwear needed to be changed, and loaded open carry was banned pdq.

Local stories about the Ninth's verdict is bordering on hysteria, with SF stations reporting that if the ruling stands, there will be no possible control over concealed carry.

Spoke with a relative in S.D. who reports sad faces on news readers - and pretty much the same spin as up here.

It amazes me that not one report notes that 42 out of 50 states have "shall-issue" or "no permit required" carry laws and the world hasn't ended in any of 'em.

I guess California is just such a special place that what works just about anywhere else is absolutely out of the question here...even if most residents of California came here from another state or another country.

ETA - I love this part of the ruling, first footnote:

There are a few narrow exceptions to this rule. Armored vehicle guards
and retired federal officers may carry a loaded firearm in public without meeting
stringent permitting requirements. See Cal. Penal Code § 26015 (armored vehicle
guards); id. § 26020 (retired federal officers). And a citizen may carry a loaded
firearm in public if: (1) he is engaged in the act of attempting to make a lawful
arrest; (2) he is hunting in locations where it is lawful to hunt; or (3) he faces
immediate, grave danger provided that the weapon is only carried in “the brief
interval” between the time law enforcement officials are notified of the danger and
the time they arrive on the scene (where the fleeing victim would obtain a gun
during that interval is apparently left to Providence). Id. § 26040 (hunting); id. §
26045 (immediate, grave danger); id. § 26050 (attempting to make a lawful arrest).

Kind of reminds me of the recent interview of Harvey Weinstein by Howard Stern. Watch for yourself:



Mr. Weinstein recognizes the need of a firearm, not in America.

"This is when you're marching half-a-million people into Auschwitz. I mean, whatever, I'd find a gun if that was happening to my people. I don't think we need guns in this country."

I guess Mr. Weinstein is simply following the California Statute.
 
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San Diego folds up their tent

file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/PressRelease.pdf

Today, San Diego County Sheriff Bill Gore notified the County Board of Supervisors of his intention not to seek en banc review in the matter Peruta, et.al v. County of San Diego.

A copy of Sheriff Gore's letter to the Board of Supervisors is below. Members of the public wishing to obtain a CCW under the standards articulated by the Ninth Circuit should be aware that the decision has not yet become final. Federal court rules prescribe a period of time which must elapse before the case is remanded to the District Court for further proceedings. Should the decision of the Ninth Circuit become final, the Sheriff's Department will begin to issue CCWs in situations where the applicant has met all other lawful qualifications and has requested a CCW for purposes of self-defense.
 
file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/PressRelease.pdf

Today, San Diego County Sheriff Bill Gore notified the County Board of Supervisors of his intention not to seek en banc review in the matter Peruta, et.al v. County of San Diego.

A copy of Sheriff Gore's letter to the Board of Supervisors is below. Members of the public wishing to obtain a CCW under the standards articulated by the Ninth Circuit should be aware that the decision has not yet become final. Federal court rules prescribe a period of time which must elapse before the case is remanded to the District Court for further proceedings. Should the decision of the Ninth Circuit become final, the Sheriff's Department will begin to issue CCWs in situations where the applicant has met all other lawful qualifications and has requested a CCW for purposes of self-defense.
It could still go to en banc review if one of the circuit judges requests it, but given how well written the opinion was and the fact that a judge requesting an en banc review has to give a written opinion as to why that is I'm having a hard time envisioning this will happen. If it doesn't the ruling becomes binding precedent in the 9th Circuit on March 6.

The 9th Circuit also includes Hawaii, which issues no carry permits currently, they'll have change that policy. IIRC it also includes Guam and Samoa.
 
It could still go to en banc review if one of the circuit judges requests it, but given how well written the opinion was and the fact that a judge requesting an en banc review has to give a written opinion as to why that is I'm having a hard time envisioning this will happen. If it doesn't the ruling becomes binding precedent in the 9th Circuit on March 6.

The 9th Circuit also includes Hawaii, which issues no carry permits currently, they'll have change that policy. IIRC it also includes Guam and Samoa.

There are other actions against other California counties concealed carry issuing policies that will be effected by this, so it very well could be that the 9th will hold an en banc hearing.

WRT San Diego, they're already on the hook for plantiff's legal costs, and probably want to limit their liability in much the same way Alameda county did in the Nordyke case:

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2012/06/01/07-15763.pdf

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Nordyke_v._King

When the writing was on the wall, Alameda settled and thus avoided the liability for paying plantiff's legal fees.
 
Cal-FFL on the Sacramento Bee editorial on the 9th Circuit ruling:

http://www.calffl.org/2014/03/sacbees-support-jim-crow-style-policies-shows-true-colors/

"The only argument that the Bee’s editorial board offers in support of their policy preference is an old, tired, and plainly elitist one: that fundamental human rights should only be exercised by the class of people they (or their ideological allies) deem suitable. In so many cases, history shows that the “chosen ones” in subjective licensing schemes have been—and remain—predominantly made up of rich, white males with political or personal connections to the gatekeepers of civil rights.

Does the Bee really believe that, for example, the political donors who received a handgun carry license from recently-retired Los Angeles Sheriff Lee Baca are more suited to carry guns in public than thousands of trained, law-abiding Angelenos, or that former San Francisco Sheriff Michael Hennessey’s lawyer was the only person in the entire county qualified enough to conceal a Glock?"
 
...Does the Bee really believe that, for example, the political donors who received a handgun carry license from recently-retired Los Angeles Sheriff Lee Baca are more suited to carry guns in public than thousands of trained, law-abiding Angelenos, or that former San Francisco Sheriff Michael Hennessey’s lawyer was the only person in the entire county qualified enough to conceal a Glock?"

So if the licensing process has been discriminatory the solution is to let everyone carry? :boggled:
 
So if the licensing process has been discriminatory the solution is to let everyone carry? :boggled:

Not at all.

The solution is for the issuing authority to issue carry permits to individuals that would be otherwise qualified, and knock off the discriminatory policies identified during the discovery phase of these suits.

It's no joke - in county after county, jurisdictions that specifically reject "self-defense" as a good cause in their written policies provided to applicants, "self-defense" was the stated good cause for individuals who were issued carry permits, who when cross referenced against donor lists - wait for it - were campaign donors to the issuing Sheriff.

Now with the Heller and McDonald rulings specifically citing self defense as the core right of the Second, those same agencies have lost their subjective wedge to deny issuance to otherwise qualified applicants and there are people in county government just about making in their pants with the thought that they don't have the control over permit issuance they once took for granted and used for a perk for their benefit.

Local media isn't even making an effort to pretend that they're neutral - every editorial comes down to blood in the streets and "the police will have to issue permits to gang members!"

It hasn't come out in public so far, but in a couple of counties that settled out of court on earlier suits, the issuing agency is now using the "good moral character" clause to deny issuance...on folks never convicted of any crime, who had two parking citations...and no explanation as to what the "GMC" denial was based on.

Things will be getting interesting in California for the next 3-4 years at least.

Additional note - no local media carried stories about yesterday's 9th Circuit decision in the Yolo county case, but they all carried this story:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Sunnyvale-s-gun-limit-uphold-in-court-5291401.php

A ruling that we knew was coming. Sunnyvale is actually on slightly firmer legal ground than S.F on the same law, as Sunnyvale was smart enough not to mandate that such magazines be "removed from the state" as SF did, but SF isn't very well noted for realizing that their authority pretty much ends at the county line.
 
Did you meant "additional legal fees"?

What happened in the Nordyke case:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordyke_v._King

Is that the county settled before judgement, thereby getting out from under the requirement that in cases involving civil rights, if the plaintiff prevails they're entitled to their attorney fees.

This is the new tactic being employed to discourage aggressive litigation on the part of plaintiffs, along with pre-trial offers of settlement by the issuance of carry permits if that's the subject of litigation. In some counties it's been the experience of applicants not fitting into the standard demographic of successful applicants that if they hire counsel and pursue the license outside of the types of suits being filed over the course of the last couple of years, they can successfully apply for the carry permit, depending on how well their attorney knows the local system.
 
The Sacramento Bee reported the Yolo County decision:

In the latest victory for firearms advocates, a federal appeals court has tossed out Yolo County’s policy requiring citizens to prove they face a threat of violence or robbery before they can get a concealed weapon permit. In an unpublished memorandum issued Wednesday by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, a three-judge panel found Yolo County’s “policy impermissibly infringes on the Second Amendment right to bear arms in lawful self-defense.” Link

Can anyone explain where exactly the phrase "right to bear arms in lawful self-defense" is found in the Second Amendment?

Yolo County’s policy required applicants to show they faced “credible threats of violence” or that they carried large amounts of cash and needed enhanced protection. Can someone explain what is wrong with this policy? Other than it violates "the Second Amendment right to bear arms in lawful self-defense."

In other words, you shouldn't have to prove a need when it's a right. And in Yolo County, at least since yesterday, the Second Amendment grants people the right to carry a concealed firearm.
 
It's a common law right.

What does that mean? As I understand it common law is case law by judicial rulings. Unlike statutory law enacted by the lawmakers.

So if I understand you correctly what you're saying is, you agree the phrase "right to bear arms in lawful self-defense," does not appear anywhere in the Second Amendment. The language arises from a court case and the judges' ruling.

So you're saying the Amendments to the Constitution can basically mean anything any judge says they mean?
 
So if I understand you correctly what you're saying is, you agree the phrase "right to bear arms in lawful self-defense," does not appear anywhere in the Second Amendment. The language arises from a court case and the judges' ruling.

No, you do not understand what I'm saying. Case law contributes to the common law, kind of like the Houston Ship Channel contributes to the Gulf of Mexico. It becomes a right by custom and practice.
 
So if the licensing process has been discriminatory the solution is to let everyone carry? :boggled:

I generally support tough gun laws, but I think as a general principle the government needs to treat people equally to the greatest degree possible. Something like 40 states have "must issue" concealed carry permits, and it's rare (Zimmerman and a couple other notorious cases aside) for a licensee to be involved in misconduct. The states can require formal training in an approved course, background checks with fingerprinting, etc., etc., and can pull the license for breaking the rules (liking carrying the gun into a bar, let alone waving it around). A county judge or local sheriff shouldn't be able to decide whether you are entitled to exercise your rights.
 
A friend told me today that San Diego County is appealing- and I don't mean the weather.

I'm going to go a-googling.

Link < http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?120578-Peruta-v-San-Diego-en-banc-petitions-filed >

9Th has stayed the mandate until it decides whether to en-banc Peruta. Which hinges on whether some johnny-come latelies have standing. Brady bunch, Ca. AG, and a LEO group. None look likely to me, and we all know how valuable my opinion is.

But also the host of that link (Nichols) has an appeal of the OC law nearing the 9Th.

That link is rather enlightening.
 
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