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Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

You have anecdotal evidence, which is as inadequate for you as it is for everybody else. Without verification by more reliable means the most likely explanation of your subjective experiences is the fallible perceptions and cognitive biases which have always been shown to be the explanation of all similar anecdotal evidence when such verification has been sought.

For years, I received evidential messages from my grandmother. At different churches, by different mediums, up and down the country. The mediums often told me personal things they could not have known. The sheer weight of evidence gradually convinced me the mediums were doing what they said they were doing, and speaking to the departed spirit of my grandmother.
 
According to spirit guides or the mediums who were purportedly channeling them,

You properly use purportedly here. How can you then conclude that this purported negative psychic energy is something you actually suffered?

Seriously, Scorpion, it's either real or it's not. If you feel strongly from one side then why not the other? If you know you suffer this sensitivity, why are you not sure about the mediums and their chaneling?

Could you be open to the idea that you are suffering an illness of the mind* and its processing of the senses? That the entire spiritual edifice is mere fiction employed by you to alleviate some of your very real symptoms?

If there is no way you could possibly ever make room for this other version, then you are stuck where you are. Maybe you are even denying yourself options for recovery, but if not, then I suppose your fiction serves you well enough.

Posting on the forum is only going to keep facing you with reality. Maybe you want this. If so, stick around.

(* I am not calling you crazy, that is a slur I would never perpetrate)
 
For years, I received evidential messages from my grandmother. At different churches, by different mediums, up and down the country. The mediums often told me personal things they could not have known. The sheer weight of evidence gradually convinced me the mediums were doing what they said they were doing, and speaking to the departed spirit of my grandmother.

Have you ever investigated cold reading?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading
http://www.randi.org/library/coldreading/
http://www.gypsypsychicscams.com/exposing-the-truth/cold-reading-how-it-tricks-you/
Because you really ought to.
 
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For years, I received evidential messages from my grandmother. At different churches, by different mediums, up and down the country. The mediums often told me personal things they could not have known. The sheer weight of evidence gradually convinced me the mediums were doing what they said they were doing, and speaking to the departed spirit of my grandmother.
People fooled by the likes of John Edward and Sylvia Browne say exactly the same thing. Here's a thread started by someone who visited many psychics that she dismissed as fakes before convincing herself that Edward was the real deal:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248380

Even assuming that the mediums you saw were (unlike Edward and Browne) as honest as you are, your perceptions and memory simply aren't reliable enough that any amount of anecdotal evidence should be sufficient to convince you. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. Confirmation bias, the Forer Effect and the malleable nature of memory remain the most likely explanation of your subjective experiences.
 
Years of readings in series of churches by mediums who know you and know each other.

Do you see at least one possible mundane explanation for their readings?


ETA: Plus what Pixel said. Take it to heart, those words are distilled wisdom.
 
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OK, Scorpion, let's try this.

The human brain is hard wired to look for patterns and to ascribe significance to those patterns; it's how we make sense of the world. As I sit here typing this my brain is being bombarded by information from all of my senses, but only a tiny fraction of that information is being brought to the attention of my conscious awareness. Whilst I pay attention to the screen and keyboard other sensory input (e.g. the sound of the occasional passing car in the lane outside) is being filtered out by my brain because it is not relevant to the task on which I am engaged, though if I deliberately direct my attention to it I will start hearing it again. My brain, your brain, everybody's brain is doing this all the time. If we paid conscious attention to all the information that floods into our brains all the time we would be completely overwhelmed.

To see the relevance of this, let's take an example in which you probably don't have so much emotionally invested. Let's use astrology.

I have known several people - perfectly intelligent, rational people - who were utterly convinced that there is something to astrology because they people they knew were so accurately described by their astrological signs. Yet when data is collected and analysed statistically (and many such studies have been done) no such correlation is ever found. People are, in fact, just as accurately described by their astrological signs as they would be expected to be by chance. No more and no less. So how is it that so many intelligent, rational people have managed to convince themselves of something which isn't true?

Let's imagine that I'm wondering if there is any truth in astrology and I know two people of a particular sign, two of whose main characteristics are, say, intelligence and laziness. One of the two people is intelligent and hard working, the other is stupid and lazy. Every time I see the intelligent one being intelligent I'll think "Aha! Intelligent! Typical Aries!" (or whatever sign it is), and likewise when I see he the lazy one being lazy. But there's no corresponding Aha moment when I see them behaving differently to the way I expect, because that data doesn't fit the pattern I expect to see, and my brain therefore filters it out as noise. I only notice and remember data which confirms my expectation - that's the signal. That, in essence, is confirmation bias, and it's a bias which is built into the way in which our brains work. Can you see how it can inadvertently mislead us?

There a former professional astrologer called Rudolph Smit who spent many years confidently producing horoscopes which all his clients assured him were amazingly accurate. One day he went through one such horoscope with a client who gave him the usual highly positive feedback, then finally asked him why he was calling her Mrs [X] when her name was actually [Y]. Only then did he realise to his horror that he'd picked up the wrong horoscope and the one he'd just discussed with her was for someone else entirely. He describes his painful journey back to reality here:

http://www.astrology-and-science.com/a-pass2.htm

Do you have the integrity of Rudolf Smit? Are you prepared to subject your cherished beliefs to critical analysis? Or are you going to continue to handwave away the reasons why your convictions are unsupportable by pretending that you are some kind of superhuman who is not subject to the fallible perceptions and cognitive biases of the rest of the human race?
 
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According to spirit guides or the mediums who were purportedly channeling them, the world is surrounded by a dark band of negative psychic energy generated by all the wars and human suffering. I suffered from sensitivity to this energy, and in the streets of London I could feel it, but if I walked into an old church in London I immediately felt relief from the unpleasant sensations. I therefore spent many of my lunch hours recuperating in old churches in the city. I also learned techniques to draw the positive energy into myself. Not something you will learn from psychiatrists, who only offer you tranquilizers.

I thought you were in the home stretch at the highlighted, but your horse refused the very next fence...DNF.
 
Hmm... it's odd that despite the certainty and clarity of these anecdotal effects and sensing of psychic energy, auras, chakras, and so-on, there's a marked reluctance to actually test or demonstrate them - yet someone like Derren Brown can demonstrate cold-reading, mind-reading, and a variety of pseudo-psychic phenomena in public and on camera at the drop of a hat.

When the faker is more wiling to demonstrate and more convincing than the 'real thing', eyebrows are rightly raised.
 
Years of readings in series of churches by mediums who know you and know each other.

Do you see at least one possible mundane explanation for their readings?


ETA: Plus what Pixel said. Take it to heart, those words are distilled wisdom.

The whole point of it is that I have visited many different churches, with many different mediums that I had never seen before. But they still gave me evidential messages. Things they could not have known about me.

I actually sat in two developing circles myself, until deciding that psychic development was not for me as I suffered too much with my nerves.
But I had a friend named Trevor Williams, who was my age, and I watched him develop psychic powers in front of my eyes. He is still a practicing medium today, and there was no way he was trying to fool me in the early days when I sat in his circle.

I am not as gullible as you may suppose, as in my search for the truth I have visited a number of cults, but I rejected them all for one reason or another.
That includes scientology, Japanese Buddhism, The divine light mission, and others. I decided they were all bunk. But my overall experience of spiritualism has been positive.
 
You properly use purportedly here. How can you then conclude that this purported negative psychic energy is something you actually suffered?

Seriously, Scorpion, it's either real or it's not. If you feel strongly from one side then why not the other? If you know you suffer this sensitivity, why are you not sure about the mediums and their chaneling?

Could you be open to the idea that you are suffering an illness of the mind* and its processing of the senses? That the entire spiritual edifice is mere fiction employed by you to alleviate some of your very real symptoms?

If there is no way you could possibly ever make room for this other version, then you are stuck where you are. Maybe you are even denying yourself options for recovery, but if not, then I suppose your fiction serves you well enough.

Posting on the forum is only going to keep facing you with reality. Maybe you want this. If so, stick around.

(* I am not calling you crazy, that is a slur I would never perpetrate)

Don't worry about calling me crazy. Even my own family assumed it.
Since they are now all dead I am guessing that they have found out I was right all along. But I have not been to a spiritualist church for years, so they have not had a chance to tell me.
 
The whole point of it is that I have visited many different churches, with many different mediums that I had never seen before. But they still gave me evidential messages. Things they could not have known about me.
Once again: the clients of mediums you would probably agree are not genuine (not to mention Derren Brown) would say the same thing. I know you find anecdotal evidence convincing, I know why you find anecdotal evidence convincing, but I also know why you really should not.
 
Scorpion, I appreciate your replies but they don't address most of what I said. I think I get the picture and that you are resolved to your views. Good luck, enjoy the forum. I'll lurk for a while.
 
I am not as gullible as you may suppose, . . . I have visited a number of cults, . . . scientology, Japanese Buddhism, The divine light mission, and others.

The bolded part contradicts the phrases that follow. It's good that you recognized that several stops on your journey were bunk, but there's some seriously low-hanging fruit in that list. The big mistake was your false premise that there was some spiritual, New Age truth to discover in the first place. Convinced of that - based on misleading experiences filtered through a fallible human brain - you hunted around to find the particular flavor of spiritualism that felt right to you.
 
Many people in the spiritualist movement aspire to be healers, but only some of them give off power so much that I could feel it. They all give their time free of charge, and any donations made go to the overheads of the church.

Some have a bit more overhead than others.

lakewood-church.jpg
 
Scorpion, I appreciate your replies but they don't address most of what I said. I think I get the picture and that you are resolved to your views. Good luck, enjoy the forum. I'll lurk for a while.

The joy of running my head into a brick wall is beginning to pall a bit for me too.
 
Scorpion, I appreciate your replies but they don't address most of what I said. I think I get the picture and that you are resolved to your views. Good luck, enjoy the forum. I'll lurk for a while.
.
+1 :(
 
Many people in the spiritualist movement aspire to be healers, but only some of them give off power so much that I could feel it. They all give their time free of charge, and any donations made go to the overheads of the church.

Do you feel the power because you're a level 3 spiritualist? Do you use your +2 amulet of sensing when you can't feel their power?

I did some LARP when I was younger, and it was free.
 

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