Top Gear racist remark (again)

[Rat]

That's certainly possible. "Gook" comes from the Korean War, as slang for Koreans based on the Korean term for people: "han guk". It just carried over to Vietnam, probably through officers.

Note: this is not true.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

gook (n.)
1899, U.S. military slang for "Filipino" during the insurrection there, probably from a native word, or imitative of the babbling sound of their language to American ears (compare barbarian). The term goo-goo eyes "soft, seductive eyes" was in vogue c.1900 and may have contributed to this somehow. Extended over time to "Nicaraguan," "any Pacific Islander" (World War II), "Korean" (1950s), "Vietnamese" and "any Asian" (1960s).

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gook

 

[Polaris]

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gook

I'll be damned. Martin Russ was wrong on that one.

 

[Information Analyst]

Would it be fine, for example, if Clarkson had casually used the "n-word" or the "c-word" to make "humorous" reference to a black person in the programme? Would it be called "policing the language" to express disgust and distaste at that?

Well, that would clearly be different, since both of those terms are widely understood to be racist in the UK. The whole point of this furore seems to be that - at least in a UK context - it has to be pointed out that it's potentially offensive.

 

[Information Analyst]

As a side note: THE absolute best movie with Vietnam (war years) as it's setting is this one (which is Australian and has the feel of "nam way better than any others I have seen) is http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079652/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_66

A vet who was there any time during the war is sure to back me on that after seeing it!!!!

Padre: "This is the most well constructed wanking machine I've ever seen!"

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Well, that would clearly be different, since both of those terms are widely understood to be racist in the UK. The whole point of this furore seems to be that - at least in a UK context - it has to be pointed out that it's potentially offensive.

Like when Bush talked about "Pakis"?

 

[Bikewer]

I won't post it, but check out the lyric to Kinky Friedman's "They ain't making Jews like Jesus Anymore"...

(warning, contains most all racially-insulting terms....)

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/k/kinky+friedman/they+aint+makin+jews+like+jesus+anymore_20079424.html

 

[The Don]

Well maybe it's done its job, to get Top Gear in the news, to re-enforce the idea that it's edgy and laddish without actually causing too much offence to get it shut down or lose too many viewers. IMO causing the right amount of offence (not too much) to the right people (far away and not in the TG demographic), like the whole Mexican furore.

 

[zooterkin]

Like when Bush talked about "Pakis"?

That's a word which came to my mind, since it is apparently used without any pejorative connotations in the US, while it is seen as racist in the UK.

There are differences, of course; 'slope' can't be used innocently, in the way that 'Paki' is in the US, where it's a simple contraction of 'Pakistani'. On the other hand, because the word is not used in the UK, it doesn't have the same associations (and it's those associations which make the words offensive; there's nothing intrinsically offensive about any word, of course), the exact level of offensiveness may have been underestimated. It is quite possible that the explanation given, that it was just a bit of wordplay, isn't far from the truth. I don't think the Top Gear team is racist; though they do make jokes about national stereotypes, I think that is often mocking the stereotypes, though I'm sure that many viewers will take things at face value. In this case, it probably would have been better to have left the joke out, but to think, having watched the whole programme and seen the way they interacted with the people they met, that the use of one word means that they are racists is, I believe, wrong.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

That's a word which came to my mind, since it is apparently used without any pejorative connotations in the US, while it is seen as racist in the UK.

There are differences, of course; 'slope' can't be used innocently, in the way that 'Paki' is in the US, where it's a simple contraction of 'Pakistani'. On the other hand, because the word is not used in the UK, it doesn't have the same associations (and it's those associations which make the words offensive; there's nothing intrinsically offensive about any word, of course). It is quite possible that the explanation given, that it was just a bit of wordplay, isn't far from the truth. I don't think the Top Gear team is racist; though they do make jokes about national stereotypes, I think that is often mocking the stereotypes, though I'm sure that many viewers will take things at face value. In this case, it probably would have been better to have left the joke out, but to think, having watched the whole programme and seen the way they interacted with the people they met, that the use of one word means that they are racists is, I believe, wrong.

IOW Never let political correctness get in the way of a good (bad) pun.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Like when Bush talked about "Pakis"?

Seriously? It's funny, though. I've been told off online for shortening 'Japanese' to 'Jap', which isn't really considered a racial slur in the UK, but over here shortening 'Pakistani' to 'Paki' is as racist as it gets. But no one minds the term 'Brit'. Divided by a common language, I guess.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Seriously? It's funny, though. I've been told off online for shortening 'Japanese' to 'Jap', which isn't really considered a racial slur in the UK, but over here shortening 'Pakistani' to 'Paki' is as racist as it gets. But no one minds the term 'Brit'. Divided by a common language, I guess.

President George Bush's fractured command of international nuance landed him in yet more trouble yesterday as Pakistanis protested over his casual use of the abbreviation "Pakis", which is widely regarded as an offensive epithet.
He was trying at the time to defuse tensions, saying: "We are working hard to convince both the Indians and the Pakis that there's a way to deal with their problems without going to war." However, he was not quite working hard enough.

Syed Adeeb, the editor of the Washington-based Pakistan Times, said that he had received about 50 emails from readers complaining they had been insulted.

"Not only here but Pakistanis in Pakistan and all over the world feel this is insulting and derogatory. President Bush is not the only offender. A lot of Pakistanis in the New York area have complained to me that government officials have been using the word," he said.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/jan/09/usa.matthewengel

 

[zooterkin]

IOW Never let political correctness get in the way of a good (bad) pun.

I doubt if Top Gear lets political correctness get in the way of anything they do.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I feel confident saying that anyone who casually refers to Asians as "slopes" casually hates Asians.

While I agree that it was in bad taste, I don't know that this is true. If one were to say, for example "The market for ladies' undergarments is very broad these days*" would that imply that the speaker hates women... even though the term "broad" is considered a fairly derogatory and sexist term for women? Or would it just be a tasteless play on words ala every other comedian on the planet?


*I am not responsible for the humor, or lack of humor, inherent in my example. Comedy is most definitely NOT in my wheelhouse.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I've seen a few episodes of QI (not actually available in any legal manner over here). My take: Clarkson plays up a character for TV, and especially on Top Gear. Otherwise there is no way Stephen Fry would have invited him onto QI so many times. I will admit the episode where they made fun of Mexicans as being lazy etc just about crossed the line.

With comedians, sometimes it's hard to tell - there's a fine line between "making fun of the stereotype by emphasis of it's absurdity" and "making the stereotype"

 

[Emily's Cat]

I'm afraid your attempts to parody Clarkson fall short when compared to his actual quotes:

Nevermind, I had a moment of reading fail.

 

[jimbob]

I was in elementary school when Saigon fell and Orange County was flooded with Vietnamese refugees. I heard the term a lot. My husband is nine years older than me, so I suspect that slight generational difference is why he never heard it.

I'm not inclined to give Jeremy Clarkson the benefit of the doubt, but then, I can't stand him or Top Gear. I freely admit my bias.

I'd never heard it but from what has been reported it was obviously intended.

 

[Emily's Cat]

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gook

Why Nicaraguan? It's not even in the same part of the world...

 

[Rat]

Why Nicaraguan? It's not even in the same part of the world...

Why does it have to be? If we're throwing racial epithets around, I think you'll find 'wog' has been used to describe pretty much every foreign type around.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Why does it have to be? If we're throwing racial epithets around, I think you'll find 'wog' has been used to describe pretty much every foreign type around.

I dunno. I am not particularly conversant with racial epithets... but I assumed there was some degree of reason involved, at least from a geographic perspective.