Shrien Dewani - Honeymoon murder

[anglolawyer]

According to The Sun the family is denying the 5 times a night thing. Mysteriouser and mysteriouser.

MURDERED Honeymoon bride Anni Dewani revealed the husband accused of killing her was a flop in bed — as her family denied claims the couple had sex “five times a night”.
Her uncle described as “pure fantasy” reports cops had retrieved a “bombshell” text sent from Anni’s BlackBerry to her cousin Sneha Hindocha saying millionaire Shrien Dewani’s was amazing in the bedroom.

 

[anglolawyer]

In the Daily Mail:

In another text, Anni wrote: 'Want to cry myself to death.' Yet another read: 'Crying every day.' A month before the wedding she texted: 'Hate him.'
And three days before her death, she messaged Sneha: 'I don't feel happy at all.' Sneha has told police that Anni called off the engagement and marriage at least three times, only for Shrien to change her mind each time.
When the texts are taken alongside statements from other witnesses, the police files depict a marriage that was doomed before it began.

Um, why is this gay man talking her out of breaking things off three times?

 

[ddt]

I am very puzzled at the apparent fact (assuming there is something in this story) the cops have not commandeered the cousins's phone. Are they really that stupid?

The SA authorities had enough trouble getting that "monkey" extradited out of Britain. Do you expect them also to have the Swedish authorities seize a phone?

Or has she refused to hand it over? We've been favoured with all the stories about their marital problems and Anni's father told the BBC that 'things didn't sound right' the last time he spoke with her etc etc (clear proof of murder to some - lol) so how come we haven't heard about this?

Maybe cousin Sneha was just jealous of Anni and was secretly in love with Devani herself, and this is her way of punishing him for choosing the wrong gal. (You heard it here first! )

Or it's just the innate need of Anni's family to have the guilty punished and they have decided for themselves early on that Devani must have been part of the plot. Tunnel vision doesn't only occur within police departments.

I only started reading this thread yesterday, and haven't yet read a lot of the links. I can't really make sense of what happened as a murder plot, with or without the involvement of Devani. Maybe I should factor in more stupidity with one or more of the persons involved - especially Tongo the taxi driver?

 

[anglolawyer]

The SA authorities had enough trouble getting that "monkey" extradited out of Britain. Do you expect them also to have the Swedish authorities seize a phone?


Maybe cousin Sneha was just jealous of Anni and was secretly in love with Devani herself, and this is her way of punishing him for choosing the wrong gal. (You heard it here first! )

Or it's just the innate need of Anni's family to have the guilty punished and they have decided for themselves early on that Devani must have been part of the plot. Tunnel vision doesn't only occur within police departments.

I only started reading this thread yesterday, and haven't yet read a lot of the links. I can't really make sense of what happened as a murder plot, with or without the involvement of Devani. Maybe I should factor in more stupidity with one or more of the persons involved - especially Tongo the taxi driver?

Oh, you cannot go wrong in this case by assigning too much stupidity to anyone, including all members of both families. Who but someone with more money than brains blows £150 grand on a *********** wedding?

I bet Shrien himself texted the 5 times a night thing from her phone as part of the cover story.

 

[ddt]

Oh, you cannot go wrong in this case by assigning too much stupidity to anyone, including all members of both families. Who but someone with more money than brains blows £150 grand on a *********** wedding?

Last time I looked, a wedding cost € 20 million. Oh, he's also in the "more money than brains" category.

Oh boy, am I glad that the bar for lesé majesté is high these days.

I bet Shrien himself texted the 5 times a night thing from her phone as part of the cover story.

That's a good one. I assume Blackberries are as poorly secured against unauthorized use as other mobile phones? Building from that premise, you can't be sure of any text message being authentic, and at most you can guess from aberrations in the overall pattern. If another text message would surface from the next morning, saying "had another ****** lonely night", that would validate your guess. But why would he then overdo it? The more money than brains thing?

But there are more things that bug me about the theory that he plotted it all tot hide his gayness. As you note, he thrice convinced her not to walk out of him. And secondly, why pick a girl from a well-to-do (that's my impression) family from a first world country? If he'd picked a girl from the slums of Kolkata, outcry from the family would have been a lot less. (OK, slums is overdoing it, his family wouldn't have accepted that, but you get the point).

Or am I again assuming to much brains?

 

[anglolawyer]

Last time I looked, a wedding cost € 20 million. Oh, he's also in the "more money than brains" category.

Oh boy, am I glad that the bar for lesé majesté is high these days.

Uh oh. Is you in trouble now! You will end up like Elsje Christiaens

That's a good one. I assume Blackberries are as poorly secured against unauthorized use as other mobile phones? Building from that premise, you can't be sure of any text message being authentic, and at most you can guess from aberrations in the overall pattern. If another text message would surface from the next morning, saying "had another ****** lonely night", that would validate your guess. But why would he then overdo it? The more money than brains thing?

But there are more things that bug me about the theory that he plotted it all tot hide his gayness. As you note, he thrice convinced her not to walk out of him. And secondly, why pick a girl from a well-to-do (that's my impression) family from a first world country? If he'd picked a girl from the slums of Kolkata, outcry from the family would have been a lot less. (OK, slums is overdoing it, his family wouldn't have accepted that, but you get the point).

Or am I again assuming to much brains?

Why marry anybody in the first place? Well, I suppose that one was answered already: family pressure, which would also explain why he married into (even more) money. I don't think marrying a slum girl was a permitted move for him. Much as it pains me to say it, I am beginning to doubt this whole story about the blackberry revelations, given the murkiness of the sources and her family's rush to deny something which, if true, could be easily proved. A pox on them all! Let's have the trial.

 

[lane99]

information underload

...this is what happens, I suppose, when one becomes over-invested in a particular position...

Opinion noted. Though in regard to your suppositions your track record would appear to speak for itself.

In the meantime, I'll now be needing to replace the fuses on my confirmation bias, projection, and irony meters. Thanks a lot.
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.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

The SA authorities had enough trouble getting that "monkey" extradited out of Britain. Do you expect them also to have the Swedish authorities seize a phone?


Maybe cousin Sneha was just jealous of Anni and was secretly in love with Devani herself, and this is her way of punishing him for choosing the wrong gal. (You heard it here first! )

Or it's just the innate need of Anni's family to have the guilty punished and they have decided for themselves early on that Devani must have been part of the plot. Tunnel vision doesn't only occur within police departments.

I only started reading this thread yesterday, and haven't yet read a lot of the links. I can't really make sense of what happened as a murder plot, with or without the involvement of Devani. Maybe I should factor in more stupidity with one or more of the persons involved - especially Tongo the taxi driver?

If you take Dewani out of the frame as a co-conspirator, this would be ordinary criminal enterprise. The cab driver takes the tourists to the robbers and pretends to be a victim himself.

In this case something went seriously awry.

Either the robbers decided to rape the woman and killed her in the course of doing so, perhaps accidentally...

or else Dewani commissioned the entire operation for the purpose of having his wife killed.

 

[anglolawyer]

Opinion noted. Though in regard to your suppositions your track record would appear to speak for itself.

In the meantime, I'll now be needing to replace the fuses on my confirmation bias, projection, and irony meters. Thanks a lot.
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I have a track record? I had no idea you were stalking me quite so much. Do expand. I'm all ears.

 

[Suffolk Skeptic]

There is another update in the Mail about this story which I can't be bothered to link. Apparently the family rubbish the claims about a fantastic sex life with 5 times a night but say that there is a text saying "finally did it, not as good a my previous boyfriends". This is supposed to come from the uncle (not the text, the story) which begs all the same questions as before IMO about why it wasn't disclosed.

I would like to see the texts at trial now. I remember all the rubbish that was put out before the Pistorius trial about rumoured texts and calls. I haven't seen half of them.

 

[anglolawyer]

There is another update in the Mail about this story which I can't be bothered to link. Apparently the family rubbish the claims about a fantastic sex life with 5 times a night but say that there is a text saying "finally did it, not as good a my previous boyfriends". This is supposed to come from the uncle (not the text, the story) which begs all the same questions as before IMO about why it wasn't disclosed.

I would like to see the texts at trial now. I remember all the rubbish that was put out before the Pistorius trial about rumoured texts and calls. I haven't seen half of them.

Saw that. I'm with you. Let's have the trial and separate fact from fiction.

 

[ddt]

Uh oh. Is you in trouble now! You will end up like Elsje Christiaens

Being immortalised by one of the greatest painters doesn't sound like a bad deal. But we abolished the death penalty in 1870.

for civilians (and re-instituted it in 1942 for collaborators with the Huns) and in 1983 in martial law.

How the hell did you dig up such an obscure and ancient case?

Why marry anybody in the first place? Well, I suppose that one was answered already: family pressure, which would also explain why he married into (even more) money. I don't think marrying a slum girl was a permitted move for him.

Fair enough.

Much as it pains me to say it, I am beginning to doubt this whole story about the blackberry revelations, given the murkiness of the sources and her family's rush to deny something which, if true, could be easily proved. A pox on them all! Let's have the trial.

Amen. I agree, we need to see all the validated text messages in sequence to be able to form an opinion.

 

[ddt]

If you take Dewani out of the frame as a co-conspirator, this would be ordinary criminal enterprise. The cab driver takes the tourists to the robbers and pretends to be a victim himself.

In this case something went seriously awry.

Either the robbers decided to rape the woman and killed her in the course of doing so, perhaps accidentally...

Okay, I can see the logic of that. The cab is a crime scene, but only of a robbery (in the plan), and the taxi driver is a victim himself, so he doesn't risk much. That is, as long as nothing goes pear shaped.

I'm applying here the standards as how the Dutch police would react. "Sorry you were robbed, here's a form, fill it out, we'll rubberstamp it and you can hand it in to the insurance to recover your loss. Don't expect us to solve it or to even put time into it. Next time, you better not wear such expensive jewellery when you enter a sleazy neighborhood."

or else Dewani commissioned the entire operation for the purpose of having his wife killed.

I'm still puzzled here then why the cab driver would go along with that. Turn his cab into a murder scene? There goes his 2,000 rand/month extra income. And maybe more - did he also use this VW Sharan for his official taxi work or did he have a company car for that?

 

[anglolawyer]

I either saw that picture at Rembrandt's house or at the Rijks Museum and it made a strong impression, as did her sad story.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

In the Daily Mail:


Um, why is this gay man talking her out of breaking things off three times?

Okay, take your beady eye off of me and put it on the thread . Sneha is not the gay sex slave, Sneha is the cousin.

 

[anglolawyer]

Okay, take your beady eye off of me and put it on the thread . Sneha is not the gay sex slave, Sneha is the cousin.

you need a little more water in your ampoule. This was the quote from The Fail:

And three days before her death, she messaged Sneha: 'I don't feel happy at all.' Sneha has told police that Anni called off the engagement and marriage at least three times, only for Shrien to change her mind each time.

I know who Sneha is alrighty. According to her, supposedly gay Shrien talked Anni out of breaking things off three times! That's three chances for him not to marry that did not involve murdering anybody. Why was he desperate to marry but then, once married, desperate not to be?

 

[anglolawyer]

snip
I'm still puzzled here then why the cab driver would go along with that. Turn his cab into a murder scene? There goes his 2,000 rand/month extra income. And maybe more - did he also use this VW Sharan for his official taxi work or did he have a company car for that?

This is the part that bugs me. When describing the convo at the airport Tongo says the price for the deal was R15,000 but all of that was going to the two hit men, according to them. So later he says he and Mbolombo were getting R5,000 each. Oh yeah? When was that agreed and, more to the point, when was it to be paid? Several days after the murder it still hadn't been and there is no evidence of them freaking out about it. Murder on credit? Tongo even shows up at the hotel to collect the R1,000 that Shrien 'forgot' to pay on the night.

The deal Tongo describes cannot be the real deal and there has to be a reason for that.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Okay, I can see the logic of that. The cab is a crime scene, but only of a robbery (in the plan), and the taxi driver is a victim himself, so he doesn't risk much. That is, as long as nothing goes pear shaped.

I'm applying here the standards as how the Dutch police would react. "Sorry you were robbed, here's a form, fill it out, we'll rubberstamp it and you can hand it in to the insurance to recover your loss. Don't expect us to solve it or to even put time into it. Next time, you better not wear such expensive jewellery when you enter a sleazy neighborhood."


I'm still puzzled here then why the cab driver would go along with that. Turn his cab into a murder scene? There goes his 2,000 rand/month extra income. And maybe more - did he also use this VW Sharan for his official taxi work or did he have a company car for that?

No, I don't think it's likely, and I don't think it is likely a wealthy tourist would commission a murder from a cab driver in a strange city.

I would like to see evidence beyond the statements of the cab driver and his cronies.

Even if Dewani turns out to have a secret gay marriage to the German Master, I would still want to see evidence.

 

[lane99]

The accused husband's behaviour and actions before, during, and after his "honeymoon" trip to South Africa seem best reconciled as a consequence of the planning, execution, and cover-up of his wife's murder.

Similarly the taxi driver's behaviour leading up to and following the killing is otherwise rather incomprehensible unless his confession of a premeditated murder conspiracy- initiated by the husband- is the fundamental truth of this crime.
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[anglolawyer]

The accused husband's behaviour and actions before, during, and after his "honeymoon" trip to South Africa seem best reconciled as a consequence of the planning, execution, and cover-up of his wife's murder.

Similarly the taxi driver's behaviour leading up to and following the killing is otherwise rather incomprehensible unless his confession of a premeditated murder conspiracy- initiated by the husband- is the fundamental truth of this crime.
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Not self explanatory unfortunately (and characteristically).