Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[RoseMontague]

Bill--We knew this two months ago. Get with the program.

But this is interesting: http://murderofmeredithkercher.com/failed-sexual-assault-investigation/

Yep. The mountain of missing test results and data.

 

[Samson]

You aren't saying that someone actually did the analysis but rather that you have taken information from these studies and made your own conclusions, is that correct?

It just isn't shown that 9:05 is the last possible TOD. You have not in any way dealt with the situation that if Lalli's work is accepted on duodenum content (I'm happy to accept it for this) then you are dealing with a population that hasn't started emptying after 2.5 to 3 hours after a meal. In the past 2-4 hours was given here as the range for emptying to start which clearly seems long on the short and long sides from the tiny meal study but may still be accurate for her meal.



Is this done by the Colorado researcher? Do you have the name? So if I understand the above Meredith could not have eaten dessert more than an hour before death. Had she eaten the apple crumble at 8 she was dead by 9 and had she eaten the crumble at 8:30 she would have been dead by 9:30 according to this.

I'll keep trying the link. Is this on IIP or the IIP wiki?

Some time ago I sent the case facts, tod of Massei, 24 hour Meredith history etc, and the links, to a family member who is a medical practitioner and researcher to get an unbiased view. I have now sent the basic Lalli that explains the pizza had not moved also. He has no idea why the answer is of interest. This is my basic research, his answer just happens to suggest Meredith was stressed or dead within an hour of eating the apple c, so your latter observation is correct about what I meant. My input was effectively only choosing the links, so admittedly he may have just used the link that comes up. The other link I remember states 2 1/2 to 3 hours after meal (commencement) for 50% stomach emptying and 80 minutes for emptying to begin.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Rudy and receiving stolen goods

"For the lawyer the judgment Dear Milan will not stretch, however, the period within which Guede, held in Viterbo, request permission to leave early from prison. Possibility provided for the Ivorian in the coming months."link

 

[anglolawyer]

"For the lawyer the judgment Dear Milan will not stretch, however, the period within which Guede, held in Viterbo, request permission to leave early from prison. Possibility provided for the Ivorian in the coming months."link

So, far from not being charged, he has been convicted on appeal and now plans a further appeal to the ISC. Note there is nothing in there about the lady's gold watch. The full article is:

It 'been convicted of receiving stolen a laptop and a cell phone stolen results in a lawyer's office in Perugia that Rudy Guede is already serving 16 years in prison for the murder of Meredith Kercher. The appellate courts of Milan have thus confirmed the decision of first instance. In Milan Guede was caught in an asylum on October 27, 2007 that before the murder of British student. In the backpack he was carrying agents found the PC and mobile phone. "Guede, who was not at the hearing today, has always claimed to have bought them at a flea market," said ANSA his lawyer, the lawyer Nicodemo Gentile. "We witnessed - added the lawyer - has never been accused of the theft of two objects. It is unwise to more than one purchase. We will make use in the Supreme Court against the conviction." For the lawyer the judgment Dear Milan will not stretch, however, the period within which Guede, held in Viterbo, request permission to leave early from prison. Possibility provided for the Ivorian in the coming months.

 

[Diocletus]

So, far from not being charged, he has been convicted on appeal and now plans a further appeal to the ISC. Note there is nothing in there about the lady's gold watch. The full article is:

So he just got an appeal verdict now, 7 years after he stole the thing? And none of this is going to change his sentence, yet he is going to file an appeal to the supreme court anyway?

What is wrong with these people.

That being said, the supreme court does seem dumb enough to buy his flea market story.

 

[anglolawyer]

So he just got an appeal verdict now, 7 years after he stole the thing? And none of this is going to change his sentence, yet he is going to file an appeal to the supreme court anyway?

What is wrong with these people.

That being said, the supreme court does seem dumb enough to buy his flea market story.

We'll, I buy it. Not.

Do you ever think of something and then think, nah! and don't mention it? But then you think some more ... How did Rudy know which law office to go to in Perugia to explain that he hadn't stolen their property?

 

[Welshman]

I feel there is a very important point needs which needs to be addressed if Amanda, Raffaele and Rudy were supposed to have committed the murder of Meredith together.

Misconduct was committed on a massive scale with regards to Amanda and Raffaele. The prosecution violated the rights of Amanda and Raffaele during the interrogations. The prosecution suppressed evidence by destroying several computers, refusing to hand over CCTV footage of the route between the Raffaele's apartment and the cottage, refusing to hand over tapes of phone conversations between Amanda and Raffaele and refusing to hand over the EDFs. The police refused to release tapes of the interrogations. The prosecution lied on numerous occasions by releasing false information to the media and lying in court. There is suspicion the bra clasp was planted. RandyN has written many good posts on the abuses which occurred in this case.

In addition, the guilters/haters spread lies and misinformation in the comments sections of articles about the case and on Amazon reviews eg mixed blood, female thumbprints on Meredith's neck, bleach was purchased, there was a clean up, Amanda's DNA on the clasp, Amanda's footprints in Meredith's room. The website themurderofMeredithKercher.com is filled with falsehoods. The documentary on BBC3 on British TV was filled with falsehoods. John Kercher's book which argued for guilt was filled with falsehoods.

How do you explain this misconduct and why do the guilters constantly lie? The reason for this is simple. The prosecution had no case or any evidence at all against Amanda and Raffaele.

The prosecution had to suppress evidence because the evidence did not support the prosecution's case and the evidence which should have existed if Amanda and Raffaele murdered Meredith was not there. If Amanda and Raffaele had left Raffaele's flat, they should have been caught on CCTV. this explains why the police refused to hand CCTV over. If Amanda and Raffaele had killed Meredith, they should have said incriminating things in their phone conversations which they did not. This is why the prosecution refused to hand over tapes of their phone conversations. The police could not release tapes of the interrogations because it would prove Amanda and Raffaele were abused and their confessions were made under duress. The prosecution could not release the EDF files as this would show the tests on the knife were not valid.

The prosecution had to lie because they had no evidence they could use against Amanda and Raffaele. If there is no evidence against Amanda and Raffaele, the guilters/haters can not argue their case without resorting to lying.

The situation is completely different with Guede. The police and prosecution did not supress a single piece of evidence against Guede or tell a single lie. This is an indication the prosecution had a slam dunk case and plenty of solid evidence against Guede.

How do you explain this difference if Amanda, Raffaele and Rudy committed the same crime together? Why did the prosecution have to resort to suppressing evidence and lying with Amanda and Raffaele but not with Guede? Why did the prosecution have no evidence or case against Amanda and Raffaele but had a watertight case and plenty of solid evidence against Guede?

 

[Diocletus]

We'll, I buy it. Not.

Do you ever think of something and then think, nah! and don't mention it? But then you think some more ... How did Rudy know which law office to go to in Perugia to explain that he hadn't stolen their property?

Maybe that's where the flea market was?

 

[Planigale]

So, far from not being charged, he has been convicted on appeal and now plans a further appeal to the ISC. Note there is nothing in there about the lady's gold watch. The full article is:

I seem to have missed something whilst distracted elsewhere. Was Guede convicted of theft separately from the Kercher case? I missed that completely.

 

[Grinder]

So, far from not being charged, he has been convicted on appeal and now plans a further appeal to the ISC. Note there is nothing in there about the lady's gold watch. The full article is:

Strange there was no news of the the trial in the first instance. So hard to believe that Fast Pete and Peggy with all of their sources didn't give us a blow by blow. Mach over here neglected to tell us.

The way the GT reads it sound as if they didn't have even a fast track trial but rather a pronouncement without trial. Maybe another newer feature Italy has employed to speed up their system.

His lawyer makes it sound as if nothing was proven at all.

We'll, I buy it. Not.

Do you ever think of something and then think, nah! and don't mention it? But then you think some more ... How did Rudy know which law office to go to in Perugia to explain that he hadn't stolen their property?

Nice insight but perhaps the police asked him in Milan if he had stolen the items from the lawyers. Actually, I'm betting that if he was able to get into the computer it would be easy to figure out who owned it.

Now I think if he did get into the locked computer that he would have needed help. I've always thought he didn't do the lawyers' job himself and well could have had the same accomplice on the fateful night.

 

[anglolawyer]

Strange there was no news of the the trial in the first instance. So hard to believe that Fast Pete and Peggy with all of their sources didn't give us a blow by blow. Mach over here neglected to tell us.

The way the GT reads it sound as if they didn't have even a fast track trial but rather a pronouncement without trial. Maybe another newer feature Italy has employed to speed up their system.

His lawyer makes it sound as if nothing was proven at all.



Nice insight but perhaps the police asked him in Milan if he had stolen the items from the lawyers. Actually, I'm betting that if he was able to get into the computer it would be easy to figure out who owned it.

Now I think if he did get into the locked computer that he would have needed help. I've always thought he didn't do the lawyers' job himself and well could have had the same accomplice on the fateful night.

Yes, that's why I blocked out the thought - that he would have learned the address of the law firm during questioning in Milan. But then there should be notes of interview (or a tape) and that would be interesting and, in a reasonable legal system, discoverable in Amanda's and Raffaele's case. So why haven't we seen it or heard anything about it?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Out of left field.

I am hearing chatter on sites connected to the case that the Italian judiciary are investigating extracts from Raffaele's book, anyone else heard anything on the grapevine?

 

[Grinder]

Some time ago I sent the case facts, tod of Massei, 24 hour Meredith history etc, and the links, to a family member who is a medical practitioner and researcher to get an unbiased view. I have now sent the basic Lalli that explains the pizza had not moved also. He has no idea why the answer is of interest. This is my basic research, his answer just happens to suggest Meredith was stressed or dead within an hour of eating the apple c, so your latter observation is correct about what I meant. My input was effectively only choosing the links, so admittedly he may have just used the link that comes up. The other link I remember states 2 1/2 to 3 hours after meal (commencement) for 50% stomach emptying and 80 minutes for emptying to begin.

I don't see how your expert could make a call relative to when the apple crisp was eaten. The Indian study made it clear that food would be in identifiable particles for far longer than 1 hour.

Once again we know that the stomach didn't begin to empty for 2.5 - 3 hours and we need only look at the statistics for people that are slow, very slow.

From the Indian study:

Amongst 100 deceased bodies studied, Category I gastric contents (semi-digested identifiable food particles) was found in 19 cases out of which 16 cases had taken their last meal about 0 to 2 hours before death, 2 cases had taken 2 to 4 hours before, 1 case had taken 4 to 6 hours before and no one had taken last meal more than 6 hours before death.
​

That study certainly allows for death 2 hours after the last meal or 10:15, which puts it after the phone business TOD. We can be pretty sure Meredith would have been in the group over 2 hours or she would have had something in her duodenum.

 

[Samson]

Out of left field.

I am hearing chatter on sites connected to the case that the Italian judiciary are investigating extracts from Raffaele's book, anyone else heard anything on the grapevine?

TJMK are all over it. The dog is down and they are kicking hard.

 

[Bill Williams]

Out of left field.

I am hearing chatter on sites connected to the case that the Italian judiciary are investigating extracts from Raffaele's book, anyone else heard anything on the grapevine?

I have heard nothing. Peter Quennell from TJMK occasionally makes reference to these kinds of threats against Raffaele, but I do not recall even Peter recently making this kind of specific threat.

Can you give a link to this "chatter"? Harry Rag has been posting like crazy recently, he's back to his mixed blood theme. I've just finished reading two, not one but TWO motivations reports - about Rudy's series of trials - and even they make specific mention of Knox's "biological material" mixed with Meredtih's blood - hardly surprising since they shared the bathroom most of this was found in, and the Scientific Police made visible giant swaths of collections....

Do you have a link to this chatter?

I was reading on another site about the reason why Italy is going soft on Knox and Sollecito since the Nencini re-convictions. It had the thesis that if Nencini really restored the Massei convictions (or upheld them), then logically Sollecito should have been jailed immediately, and extradition should have been sought as well.

Instead, Raffaele had his passport seized and even Nencini declared Knox to be legally overseas. It's a sign that they want all this to go away.

There is obviously something going on behind the scenes, but I'm with you, CoulsdonUK, it's hard to put all this Italian dietrology together....

 

[Bill Williams]

TJMK are all over it. The dog is down and they are kicking hard.

What's TJMK saying?

 

[Diocletus]

I don't see how your expert could make a call relative to when the apple crisp was eaten. The Indian study made it clear that food would be in identifiable particles for far longer than 1 hour.

That's weird because Indian food normally exits my stomach and goes through my duodendum in about 10 minutes. In fact, it may bypass the duodendum entirely and go right to the addendum.

 

[Diocletus]

Out of left field.

I am hearing chatter on sites connected to the case that the Italian judiciary are investigating extracts from Raffaele's book, anyone else heard anything on the grapevine?

Why yes. Mignini called me just the other day and told me that this is entirely accurate.

 

[Bill Williams]

I hope this is not some other thing to have escaped my notice until now....

But Rudy Guede has FINALLY been convicted of theft in the breakins, which he did prior to his break-in to Meredith's cottage in Nov 2007.

The Milan court has sentenced Guede for the theft of a laptop and cellphones from the Milan lawyer's office in Oct 2007, in the days before he broke in to murder Meredith Kercher.

http://www.ilmessaggero.it/primopiano/cronaca/rudi_guede_furto_milano_perugia_delitto/notizie/625371.shtml

 

[Diocletus]

Yes, that's why I blocked out the thought - that he would have learned the address of the law firm during questioning in Milan. But then there should be notes of interview (or a tape) and that would be interesting and, in a reasonable legal system, discoverable in Amanda's and Raffaele's case. So why haven't we seen it or heard anything about it?

I'm sure that Andrea Vogt will be filing a Freedom of Information Act request any time now.