Ancient gliders powered via catapult

[MRC_Hans]

Well, if we're at speculating, we might as well speculate they had Iron Man style units powered by a miniature arc reactor on the chest

Well, gliders and catapults could be built using materials and technology available in ancient Egypt. In other words, all that was needed was know-how.

- Otherwise, you are correct.

Hans

 

[MikeG]

Wait a minute........

They wouldn't need catapults to launch their gliders if they could just jump off somewhere high with them. It's so obvious..........

..........the pyramids weren't built as signals to alien motherships after all, they were simply glider launch pads! Obvious!!

 

[Cainkane1]

If the ancient Egyptians developed gliders these gliders would be found in tombs instead of those beautiful ships. There is a artifact that resembles a toy glider but it lacks a tail and cannot fly. This artifact has been duplicated and shown that it can fly but it is way too small to have carried anyone.

 

[dasmiller]

If the ancient Egyptians developed gliders these gliders would be found in tombs instead of those beautiful ships. There is a artifact that resembles a toy glider but it lacks a tail and cannot fly. This artifact has been duplicated and shown that it can fly but it is way too small to have carried anyone.

If I may expand on the hilighted part:

1) AFAIK, the flying examples all included horizontal stabilizers that were not present in the original artifact.

2) Even with a horizontal stabilizer, I don't think that it would have had enough roll stability to be passively stable, so it wouldn't have flown very far without some control system.

3) Speaking as an aeronautical engineer, you can get almost anything to fly. There are flying disks (I've built a few), doghouses, lawnmowers, '57 Chevies, carpets, etc. They could get that artifact's shape to fly if they added a stabilizer and active controls? The same could be said of a quesadilla.

That artifact proves that Egyptians had flight the way an ancient jar of wheat proves that Egyptians had pizza bagels.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

4. More importantly, the model that was supposedly made to fly had 6 times larger wings than the actual Saqqara Bird toy. The Egyptian original just was too heavy to fly anywhere else than straight into the ground, with the actual wings it had.

And AFAIK

5. Nobody actually saw even that fly. It's just that the guy who's a proponent of ancient Egyptian aviation claiming it.

 

[dasmiller]

5. Nobody actually saw even that fly. It's just that the guy who's a proponent of ancient Egyptian aviation claiming it.

True, but I'm willing to assume that it flew. With those constraints (same shape, scaled up & lighter, add a horizontal stabilizer, put in some controls), I could certainly make a flying model of the artifact. Or a flying model of a quesadilla, or a protractor, or a DVD, or a business card, or a stop sign, or a placemat, or a fried egg, or . . .

So I view his claim as being very ordinary and lacking significance.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Well, I didn't say he claimed to also put controls in it. If you can actually put some control surfaces on it, sure, its being inherently unstable even scaled up, isn't a problem any more.

But that runs into a problem with the claim of it actually having been a toy that flew. Because, see, you need some kind of remote control to operate those surfaces. Which the Egyptians didn't have.

And if you can put it in a very high speed wind tunnel like some other guys did, I don't doubt that past a speed, you don't even have to scale it or lighten it to get enough lift. But in the outside world then it needs an engine and a propeller to keep flying, and the Egyptians didn't have either.

But yes, I have no doubt that YOU could make it fly. Slap some remote control on it, servo-motors or whatever else to move the control surfaces, and an engine, and that thing should fly like a beaut. I'm doubting that it could fly WITHOUT those high tech extras, which are kinda required for the claim that the EGYPTIANS could make it into an actual flying toy.

Mind you, the claim isn't even that it's a model of a bigger flying toy or anything, but that it WAS one. And you can't make it into one by just adding a horizontal stabilizer at the rear end, which is what was essentially claimed about it.

ETA: well, ok, maybe if you don't as much put a stabilizer at the rear end, but the main wing, turning it into a canard design... hmm... that might glide

 

[dasmiller]

Well, I didn't say he claimed to also put controls in it. If you can actually put some control surfaces on it, sure, its being inherently unstable even scaled up, isn't a problem any more.

But that runs into a problem with the claim of it actually having been a toy that flew. Because, see, you need some kind of remote control to operate those surfaces. Which the Egyptians didn't have.

And if you can put it in a very high speed wind tunnel like some other guys did, I don't doubt that past a speed, you don't even have to scale it or lighten it to get enough lift. But in the outside world then it needs an engine and a propeller to keep flying, and the Egyptians didn't have either.

But yes, I have no doubt that YOU could make it fly. Slap some remote control on it, servo-motors or whatever else to move the control surfaces, and an engine, and that thing should fly like a beaut. I'm doubting that it could fly WITHOUT those high tech extras, which are kinda required for the claim that the EGYPTIANS could make it into an actual flying toy.

Mind you, the claim isn't even that it's a model of a bigger flying toy or anything, but that it WAS one. And you can't make it into one by just adding a horizontal stabilizer at the rear end, which is what was essentially claimed about it.

I think we're in violent agreement. The actual 7" Saqqara bird would glide about as well as a half-full jar of mayonnaise. I'd assumed that the 6X, tail-added replica was radio-controlled, because that's how I'd do it, but I have no evidence that this is actually the case.

 

[arthwollipot]

3) Speaking as an aeronautical engineer, you can get almost anything to fly. There are flying disks (I've built a few), doghouses, lawnmowers, '57 Chevies, carpets, etc. They could get that artifact's shape to fly if they added a stabilizer and active controls? The same could be said of a quesadilla.

Bricks can fly. They fly downwards quite well.

 

[rwguinn]

I have a flying STOP sign. It glides, albeit badly...

 

[barehl]

I'm always interested in where technology comes from. To the best of my knowledge, the early gliders were based on canoe technology. Canoes were lightweight wooden frames covered with fabric that had been sealed with some type of resin. Aircraft continued to be made the same way until after WWI. You can look at previous boat technology which is almost identical except that the covering was birch bark or animal hide. But you can't make a glider with those coverings, you needed a lightweight fabric. This fabric was available because it was used for things like tents and sailcloth. The canoe technology was not secret; coracles were built in a similar fashion. The wicker coracles would not have worked very well but others were made with strips of wood. Again though, you have to get away from the heavy, animal hide covering.

Okay, we know that the Egyptians had wood, fabric, and resin. So, it wasn't a lack of raw materials. However, their boat building technology was based on lashed planks from what I remember. So where would the glider technology have come from?

 

[Iamme]

Barehl, but what prerequisite is required for one to be labeled as a glider? A plane-like thing that can be catapulted and crashes out ahead a ways, like a paper airplane? Or something that can soar in the air for quite some time? And for how long? Who gets the credit for what? Probably an evolutionary progression.
Didn`t Leonardo Da Vinci invent at least a drawing model of the helicopter?

 

[Craig B]

Didn`t Leonardo Da Vinci invent at least a drawing model of the helicopter?

He produced a drawing of a glider too. http://www.leonardodavincisinventions.com/inventions-for-flight/leonardo-da-vincis-glider/

 

[Iamme]

He produced a drawing of a glider too. http://www.leonardodavincisinventions.com/inventions-for-flight/leonardo-da-vincis-glider/

Thanks. I read it all and looked at all the pics.
I`ve been a Leonardo wannabe. Years ago i sketched various things. I thought it be neat to make shoes for walking on water, for one thing. But i`ve learned over the years that if you thought of something, probably someone else has already either thought of the exact thing, or something close.

 

[Craig B]

Thanks. I read it all and looked at all the pics.
I`ve been a Leonardo wannabe. Years ago i sketched various things. I thought it be neat to make shoes for walking on water, for one thing. But i`ve learned over the years that if you thought of something, probably someone else has already either thought of the exact thing, or something close.

Jesus was wearing special shoes?

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

@Barehl:
They were supposed to be made of wood, not fabric. The model that was scaled up and supposedly could generate enough lift to work as a glider, albeit while being very unstable anyway, was made of balsa wood.

Which, of course, the Egyptians didn't have either, but that never stopped crazy 'theories'

 

[Fellow Traveler]

Wait a minute........

They wouldn't need catapults to launch their gliders if they could just jump off somewhere high with them. It's so obvious..........

..........the pyramids weren't built as signals to alien motherships after all, they were simply glider launch pads! Obvious!!

Does this mean the pyramids were not nuclear reactors built by Ancient Aliens?

 

[MRC_Hans]

He produced a drawing of a glider too. http://www.leonardodavincisinventions.com/inventions-for-flight/leonardo-da-vincis-glider/

While way ahead of his time, Leonardo was quite some way from designing any form of viable aircraft.

Hans

 

[Craig B]

While way ahead of his time, Leonardo was quite some way from designing any form of viable aircraft.

Hans

The simplest of his gliders might have worked after a fashion, with a small modification, as the source above indicates.

Leonardo Da Vinci’s Simple Glider design. Another design of his for a simpler glider has since been shown to work with the simple addition of a rudder. As you can see from the sketch below it is much simpler machine and therefore more likely to work , and as the man himself is quoted as saying “simplicity is the ultimate sophistication”

 

[TjW]

The simplest of his gliders might have worked after a fashion, with a small modification, as the source above indicates.

My aunt, with a small modification, would be my uncle.