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Ancient gliders powered via catapult

Still, a glider projected by a catapult doesn't seem like the kind of technology that an advanced space-faring species--who supposedly have the machines to travel at around the speed of light--would give to a relatively primitive people...unless they were just "cranking their yanks", if I'm using that phrase correctly.

On that:

If you were an advanced civilization and wanted to help a (relative to you) primitive people, what would you give them? Planes? Pyramids? Batteries or radios?

- Nah, you would give them what we gave natives:

Knives, metal pots, simple medicines, and the equivalent of glass beads.

Hans
 
On that:

If you were an advanced civilization and wanted to help a (relative to you) primitive people, what would you give them? Planes? Pyramids? Batteries or radios?

- Nah, you would give them what we gave natives:

Knives, metal pots, simple medicines, and the equivalent of glass beads.

Hans
But "natives" can make glass beads and pots without advanced technology. Today advanced technology makes mobile phones for example, that "natives" purchase and use.
 
I'd like to add another problem there: there was no such thing as a <bleep>ing catapult at the time.

The first siege engines ever were the ladders and battering ram, the former being pretty much as old as there was a wall, and the latter being discovered by the Assyrians. One of the earliest images of a battering ram is actually as late as 9'th century BCE, so yeah, even that idea didn't happen very early. (The Romans, cf Vitruvius, actually attribute the first battering ram to a Carthaginian engineer, so, yeah, 1'st millennium BCE anyway.)

The catapult, or more accurately an onager type one, is first used by the Greeks, somewhere mid 1'st millennium BCE. But it's slow to spread even in Greece, with most city assault battles involving no more than ladders. Even battering rams are first confirmed in the west in 503 BC or so when the Romans use them against the Arunci, and Greeks first use them as late as Platea in 427 BC. Catapults spread even later.

Which, among other things, tells us that the Egyptians didn't have catapults either, THAT late, since the Greeks were certifiable fanboys of the Egyptians.

So aside from the size and structurally rigidity problems, which dasmiller already calculated, the problem with a catapult-launched glider at the time was that there was no <bleep>ing catapult to launch it. It's the kind of nonsense that can only come from and appeal to idiots for whom "ancient" (or for that matter, "medieval") are some uniform mix of everything across thousands of years, and who aren't even vaguely aware that there was a timeline of such inventions.
 
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I'd like to add another problem there: there was no such thing as a <bleep>ing catapult at the time.
I'd want to use a trebuchet for such heavy work; and they are actually rather recent. Not found in the ancient world. Here's wiki.
The counterweight trebuchet appeared in both Christian and Muslim lands around the Mediterranean in the 12th century. It could fling projectiles weighing up to 350 pounds (160 kg) at or into enemy fortifications.
 
I've let it go for a couple of hours, but the title of this thread has niggled away at my pedantry nerve.

A glider isn't powered. It may be launched by a catapult, but once up in the air it is only "powered" by gravity and inertia.

Sorry!


I believe that powered would be quite correct, but only until acceleration stops, or perhaps soon after.

If I throw a ball at a nearby wall, surely its flight, the entire way, was powered by the throw, and not by "gravity and inertia". Something had to power the inertia after all, before gravity becomes dominant.

(I still agree with you that "launched" is much more appropriate, I'm just not so sure about your reasoning.)
 
Actually back on topic:

I'd like to add another problem there: there was no such thing as a <bleep>ing catapult at the time.


OK aside from that. Even if we assume that they did have some method to sling an object it is still very unlikely they would have tested anything like this. There is just no valid reason. They would likely see no need to do it for entertainment, or for quick transport, etc.

Also, the OP does not specifically claim anything about scale. Or even having a human ride the glider. There is a huge difference.

For instance, it is possible they had a very small child's toy that launched a tiny glider via some form of elastic. That would fit the OP.
 
I believe that powered would be quite correct, but only until acceleration stops, or perhaps soon after.

If I throw a ball at a nearby wall, surely its flight, the entire way, was powered by the throw, and not by "gravity and inertia". Something had to power the inertia after all, before gravity becomes dominant.

(I still agree with you that "launched" is much more appropriate, I'm just not so sure about your reasoning.)

Gliders aren't as simple as a ball, if you do it right. You can climb by finding air going up faster than you're going down.
Eventually, of course, the power comes from the sun, as did whatever muscle power you used to cock the catapult.
The current distance record for hang gliders is something over 400 miles.
You don't really need a catapult. A hillside and a small chariot wheel will do.
Rolling takeoffs on a hillside are routinely done by "airchairs".



That glider is built of aluminum and Dacron, but there isn't any technology in it that couldn't be replaced by technology available to the Egyptians.
It would be thirty pounds heavier, maybe.
 
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If you met an Egyptian (ancient) you likely see someone with dark skin and with features that would be on the curve of features that are "African".
 
If you met an Egyptian (ancient) you likely see someone with dark skin and with features that would be on the curve of features that are "African".
They seem to have been rather mixed. Rameses II had reddish-blond hair, as his mummy demonstrates. But there was a wide spectrum of features. Is this important to a discussion of ancient technology?

ETA For a critique of the Afrocentrist interpretation of Egyptian history see http://www.hallofmaat.com/modules.php?name=Articles&file=article&sid=75
 
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So aside from the size and structurally rigidity problems, which dasmiller already calculated, the problem with a catapult-launched glider at the time was that there was no <bleep>ing catapult to launch it. It's the kind of nonsense that can only come from and appeal to idiots for whom "ancient" (or for that matter, "medieval") are some uniform mix of everything across thousands of years, and who aren't even vaguely aware that there was a timeline of such inventions.
I assumed that any hypothetical catapult would have been ballista-style, as you couldn't reliably hurl any body into the air with an onager and hope to have its aerodynamics work out.

But yeah, not even ballistas.
 
I believe that powered would be quite correct, but only until acceleration stops, or perhaps soon after.

If I throw a ball at a nearby wall, surely its flight, the entire way, was powered by the throw, and not by "gravity and inertia". Something had to power the inertia after all, before gravity becomes dominant.

(I still agree with you that "launched" is much more appropriate, I'm just not so sure about your reasoning.)

Inertia.

Don't go getting all pedantic with my pedantry. ;) I included the word inertia to cover your entire post. The inertia from the launch, then gravity, are what moves a glider along.
 
I assumed that any hypothetical catapult would have been ballista-style, as you couldn't reliably hurl any body into the air with an onager and hope to have its aerodynamics work out.

But yeah, not even ballistas.

Well, I was talking about what appeared the earliest... and even that's too late to be the catapult that launches gliders.

A torsion ballista would be indeed the only sane way to do it, but that doesn't even exist until the middle of the 2nd century BCE, when the Romans came up with it. Even its predecessors the gastraphetes and oxybeles (think, oversized crossbow) didn't exist until circa 400 BCE and respectively 375 BCE, IIRC. And good luck making a wooden bow big enough to launch a human, because that's what you'd need to launch a human with an oxybeles.

But yes, your objection is sound. You couldn't really launch a glider with an onager.
 
This thread reminds me of the old professor Joe Vee hoax involving Mayan, peddle powered aircraft.
 
Well, I was talking about what appeared the earliest... and even that's too late to be the catapult that launches gliders.

A torsion ballista would be indeed the only sane way to do it, but that doesn't even exist until the middle of the 2nd century BCE, when the Romans came up with it. Even its predecessors the gastraphetes and oxybeles (think, oversized crossbow) didn't exist until circa 400 BCE and respectively 375 BCE, IIRC. And good luck making a wooden bow big enough to launch a human, because that's what you'd need to launch a human with an oxybeles.

But yes, your objection is sound. You couldn't really launch a glider with an onager.

No catapult designed to launch a small hard object is suitable for launching large, light, and fragile object, which is what a glider is.

It would have to be an entirely different design. To launch a glider (here assuming that Egyptians somehow had a glider), you need something that can essentially pull in a long rope. A heavy weight with a pulley system would work.

Hans
 
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The idea is not bad at all, but there is no evidence that a catapult (of any kind) powered by a weight drop ever existed before the invention of a the trebuchet.

ETA: I'd also add that the first mention we have of pulleys is 3'rd century BCE, by Archimedes.
 
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The idea is not bad at all, but there is no evidence that a catapult (of any kind) powered by a weight drop ever existed before the invention of a the trebuchet.

ETA: I'd also add that the first mention we have of pulleys is 3'rd century BCE, by Archimedes.

There is no mention of manned gliders before the 19th Century (ones that flew, that is).

However, if we are to speculate that ancient Egypt had gliders, we might as well also speculate that they had suitable catapults, blocks, and pulleys.

It remains, however, idle speculatien, missing any evidence what so ever.

Hans
 
Well, if we're at speculating, we might as well speculate they had Iron Man style units powered by a miniature arc reactor on the chest ;)
 
I've let it go for a couple of hours, but the title of this thread has niggled away at my pedantry nerve.

A glider isn't powered. It may be launched by a catapult, but once up in the air it is only "powered" by gravity and inertia.

Sorry!

Correct
And even today gliders are launched by catapult, winch and aerotow with some being capable of self launching
 

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