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Does Putin think America is weak?

stevea said:
Strategically we agree, but ...



I HEAR this repeatedly but don't see the argument in any thoughtful detail. Russia gets ~10% of their GDP from net exports, primarily fossil fuels. Their import list looks mostly like Chinese/Asain mfrg goods & tools and some other miscellany.

Exactly what sort of sanctions could make Putil ill ?
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the personal kind that freezes all of his assets overseas in any of the Western democracies and does not allow him or his family or friends to enjoy trips to the free world.
 
Not weak, but ineffective in this case.

Still, I'm sure the Baltic states are feeling perfectly secure.

However, a major shooting war is a bad idea, so there is little the West can do, other than sanctions. Eastern Ukraine must be an "interesting" place at the moment.

On the plus side, I am glad that Russia has said that its troops are not involved in the Crimea.
 
thaiboxerken said:
the personal kind that freezes all of his assets overseas in any of the Western democracies and does not allow him or his family or friends to enjoy trips to the free world.
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I thnk that economic sanctions are probably the best the West can do.

I'd think that not delivering amphibious assault ships should be the first step.
 
Well everyone says Obama is acting weak. I proposed an idea to look tough and now I'm having that blasted apart.

What the hell does everyone want? You want Obama to act tough but also not do anything? Do you want Obama to become a Jedi or something?
 
Travis said:
Well everyone says Obama is acting weak. I proposed an idea to look tough and now I'm having that blasted apart.

What the hell does everyone want? You want Obama to act tough but also not do anything? Do you want Obama to become a Jedi or something?
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You know as well as everyone else does that whatever Obama does, the Right will whine about it.

Obama looks weak is an idiotic narrative that the Right has always tried to tell, even though history says different.
 
Travis said:
A lot has been made in recent days about how this terrible stuff Putin is doing wouldn't have happened if Putin just feared the USA they way he should.

Some of the reasoning behind this is.....odd.




So....Putin doesn't fear America because Putin thinks gay people are all sissies who, strangely, only bring sex toys into a battle because I guess gay people don't mind being slaughtered by an enemy with actual guns. If Putin really is that stupid wouldn't it be a great way to goad him into a trap?

And can anyone actually point to something Obama did that would have in any way made Putin think America is somehow a weakling that can be pushed around?
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It's stupid propaganda being pushed by neocons who desperately want a new Cold War.

The reality is that Russia is incredibly weak compared to the Cold War days and Putin is trying to draw a line in the sand to halt some of the "aggressive diplomacy" the West has been conducting for the past twenty years.
 
IXP said:
Has anyone stopped to ask the question: Why is it in the interest of the U.S. that Crimea, which is populated by 80% Russian people, and was part of Russia before it was signed over to the Ukraine Soviet Republic in 1954, continue to be part of the Ukraine, and not Russia, even though a majority of its population would prefer to be part of Russia?
IXP
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Hey show a fair and free referendum that says that is the case and I'm sure it can be negotiated but when Russian troops fire warning shots at OSEC observers I won't hold my breath.
 
Redtail said:
That they stole from him when he had the flu.

Eta: Actually, a better analogy would be the ex football trying to pick up the kid's girlfriend.
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An even better analogy would be Russia invading the Ukraine, a sovreign nation the US had previously undertaken to protect. The most reasonable explanation fis that Putin believes the US is too weak in force of arms, or too weak in moral conviction, or both, to stop him from doing this.

"B-but the US is rilly rilly strong!" It's true the US is strong in some ways, in some places, and at some times. But it's not strong in this way, in this place, at this time. And it's obvious that Putin knows this. It's not just about American not being able to project power into Central Asia, either, though that is a large part of it. It's also about the fact that there have been times in the past few years where America was able to project power, and did not. Libya, for example. And again at Benghazi. And in Syria. There are all sorts of reasons--good ones, even--to choose not to project power in those cases. But the fact remains that America today is, more often than not, a nation that chooses not to project power even when it can. Obama's great military legacy has been the draw downs of military power in Iraq and Afghanistan, taking a back seat in Libya and Syria, drone strikes against indviduals with limited capacity to fight back. How can Putin interpret this as anything other than weakness?

"I'm not too weak to protect that kid from a bully like you; I just don't want to." How does that look to the bully? How does that look to the kid?
 
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theprestige said:
An even better analogy would be Russia invading the Ukraine, a sovreign nation the US had previously undertaken to protect. The most reasonable explanation fis that Putin believes the US is too weak in force of arms, or too weak in moral conviction, or both, to stop him from doing this.
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And what sort of "strong" do you want exactly? The US to start a war with Russia over this and set the world on fire with thermonuclear flames?

Did W make the US look weak when he didn't start a shooting match over the Russian Invasion and annexation of Georgia's northern sates?
 
theprestige said:
An even better analogy would be Russia invading the Ukraine, a sovreign nation the US had previously undertaken to protect. The most reasonable explanation fis that Putin believes the US is too weak in force of arms, or too weak in moral conviction, or both, to stop him from doing this.
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Now, now, is that the most reasonable, or is it just the one you want others to believe?

"B-but the US is rilly rilly strong!" It's true the US is strong in some ways, in some places, and at some times. But it's not strong in this way, in this place, at this time. And it's obvious that Putin knows this. It's not just about American not being able to project power into Central Asia, either, though that is a large part of it. It's also about the fact that there have been times in the past few years where America was able to project power, and did not. Libya, for example. And again at Benghazi. And in Syria. There are all sorts of reasons--good ones, even--to choose not to project power in those cases. But the fact remains that America today is, more often than not, a nation that chooses not to project power even when it can. Obama's great military legacy has been the draw downs of military power in Iraq and Afghanistan, taking a back seat in Libya and Syria, drone strikes against indviduals with limited capacity to fight back. How can Putin interpret this as anything other than weakness?
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"Zomg! Da us iz teh weaks you guyz!!" Isn't in reality. What should the US be doing to project strength? Try to be specific.

"I'm not too weak to protect that kid from a bully like you; I just don't want to." How does that look to the bully? How does that look to the kid?
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So just snatch his jaw off without a word?
 
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I'll make it simple.

"Obama should ____________________"
 
thaiboxerken said:
Obama looks weak is an idiotic narrative that the Right has always tried to tell, even though history says different.
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Indeed, the man with the highest bodycount from foreign assassinations in US presidential history is "weak". Why? Cause that's what Democrats are dummy!

This has all the hallmarks of the typical ritualistic practise of warring tribes, and little clear connection to the reality of foreign policy and geopolitics.

And it's frustrating to come up in a world where so much of our politics appears to be merely the recycling/repackaging of old memes. Hard to correct old problems when everyone just retreads the old lines over and over again.
 
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Here is Ted Cruz talking about how when Russia invades another country it's because of a weak president. Unless it's a Republican president, then he says....nothing.
You’d better believe Putin sees in Benghazi four Americans are murdered, the first ambassador killed in service since 1979, and nothing happens,” Cruz added, echoing comments by other Republicans like Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C. “You’d better believe that Putin sees that in Syria, Obama draws a red line and ignores the red line. You’d better believe that Putin sees all over the world.”
When asked about Russia’s record of aggression before Obama became president, including its invasion of Georgia during the presidency of George W. Bush, Cruz instead slammed Obama for mocking 2012 GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney for his comments about Russia during the 2012 campaign.
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The only thing more disturbing then Cruz doing this is when people on this forum are no different.
 
PhantomWolf said:
And what sort of "strong" do you want exactly? The US to start a war with Russia over this and set the world on fire with thermonuclear flames?

Did W make the US look weak when he didn't start a shooting match over the Russian Invasion and annexation of Georgia's northern sates?
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I think the paragraph after the one you quoted, from the post you replied to, makes a start at answering your questions. It's not the first such paragraph I've written in this thread, either. Respond to that paragraph, and maybe we can have a conversation.
 
Peephole said:
It's stupid propaganda being pushed by neocons who desperately want a new Cold War.

The reality is that Russia is incredibly weak compared to the Cold War days and Putin is trying to draw a line in the sand to halt some of the "aggressive diplomacy" the West has been conducting for the past twenty years.
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I suspect someone is longing for the good old days of the Soviet Union to come back.
 
Wudang said:
I think he's a bit "black and white" to support his conclusion but some interesting points in this.
http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/russian-invasion-ukraine-push-west-economic-war/441

I particularly liked
"The west – run by a generation that believes the market is the solution to everything – suddenly found you cannot outsource strategy;"
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What is this even supposed to mean? Was the West wrong to expand NATO? Is the West responsible for the awful Ukrainian political class? Should the West start a new Cold War and threaten the world with obliteration again? Should the West just outright start World War 3?

He simultaneously whines about the West invading Iraq, but admonished the West for not invading Syria. As if another quagmire like Iraq or Afghanisten would have helped anyone? Or is even relevant to the situation in Ukraine?

Just an article from another drama queen. "Living through the last days of globalisation and multilateral order." Give me a break.
 
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