How much time do we really have?

[I Ratant]

You seem so certain, but it is really nothing more than faith. You have no way of knowing what awaits you after death, or do you?

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Being of a scientific turn of mind, I have wondered here at which point in the development of modern man Nature decided to "gift" the first ones with a 'soul' that would persist after death.
Got a response?
Other than faith, of course.

 

[mikeb768]

How about this or this? So, NASA can detect what the lunar core is like, but they can't find the fault line going clear through the moon?

BTW, had NASA detected such a fault, you would be trumpeting this evidence to the skies. Yet, when science doesn't back up your claim - claim made about a physical objetc, the moon - you dismiss it.

So no evidence of your claim, so instead you post evidence for the Moon's Lunar Core. Makes perfect sense.

And as mentioned before, my belief for this event is not based on science. Just go back and read my previous posts.

 

[mikeb768]

.
Being of a scientific turn of mind, I have wondered here at which point in the development of modern man Nature decided to "gift" the first ones with a 'soul' that would persist after death.
Got a response?
Other than faith, of course.

Assuming that a soul was a man made creation. I suggest you start a new thread.

 

[I Ratant]

Here's a magnificent view of layers in the earth... which are detectable by the differing rates a sonic probe would exhibit passing through them.
It's how oil and coal are discovered....
This one is on the San Andrea Fault, and runs right behind my house.
Notice that some of the layers..... which are laid down first horizontally... are vertical!!! and there's even some layers totally rolled over and enclosed by other layers.. Awesome..
(Sadly, the "eye" is now covered by debris from the mini-quakes, and the damn civic fathers won't clean off the dirt so the eye can be visible.)

 

[TimCallahan]

So no evidence of your claim, so instead you post evidence for the Moon's Lunar Core. Makes perfect sense.

The evidence of the claim is that NASA can detect the fluid nature of the moon's core. How can they do this, yet miss a fault that bisects the moon clear through?

And as mentioned before, my belief for this event is not based on science. Just go back and read my previous posts.

Here's the problem with that sort of attitude. If you make a claim about the physical universe, such as the claim that Muhammad split the moon in two, then put it back together again at his word, then you enter the realms of history and science. Such an event should have generated multiple witnesses and should leave behind physical evidence that it happened. Of course, you are welcome to believe it to be true, even against the evidence of history and science. However, if you do, it merely becomes an assertion that not only isn't proven, but is extremely unlikely.

 

[Donn]

"NASA's seismic analysis would have detected a fault that went clear through the moon", oh really? And you know this how?

He asked Allah, of course; the go-to source for science.

 

[TimCallahan]

. . . (snip) . . . [W]hat would you say "getting right with God" entails? Is it leading an ethical life? Or does it mean taking the right loyalty oath? Many Christian evangelicals assert that all who do not confess Jesus Christ to be their savior will be damned for eternity. Depending on what verse one reads in the Qur'an, all People of the Book will be saved. Other verses seem to indicate it will only be Muslims.

I once asked a young evangelical Christian woman if that meant that an atheist who has led and ethical life would be damned, while a child murderer who believed in Jesus would be saved. She affirmed that the child murderer would be saved, while the ethical atheist would be damned. Is that your view?

Mikeb768: I'm still waiting for your answer to this question.

 

[mikeb768]

Here's the problem with that sort of attitude. If you make a claim about the physical universe, such as the claim that Muhammad split the moon in two, then put it back together again at his word, then you enter the realms of history and science. Such an event should have generated multiple witnesses and should leave behind physical evidence that it happened. Of course, you are welcome to believe it to be true, even against the evidence of history and science. However, if you do, it merely becomes an assertion that not only isn't proven, but is extremely unlikely.

Like I said maybe we will one day have proof of this event? God knows best. Although I'm seriously wondering, are people truly waiting for things such as this to be confirmed by organizations such as NASA before deciding to get right with God? For example lets say you die 2039, and in 2040 a NASA study is released which states that the moon has a large crack which runs through it and reaches to both ends?

Such people would no doubt say, "If only God had proved to me this sign earlier".

So like I said before if in a few years time or even after your death, science (NASA) and historical records catch up to the Quran (just as we have already seen), what excuse will you put forward?

 

[mikeb768]

Mikeb768: I'm still waiting for your answer to this question.

Maybe you look into this for yourself, although if I were you I would start with sincere repentance, and then begin to ask God for guidance. For some people this is a journey which can take a very long time (years even).

Here is one man's story - How I Came to Islam

 

[Donn]

So like I said before if in a few years time or even after your death, science (NASA) and historical records catch up to the Quran (just as we have already seen), what excuse will you put forward?

After my death, I'm no more. Redundancy chafes, but to belabour: there will be no me to put forward anything at all. To suggest otherwise is to volunteer evidence.

If, in a few years, the split-moon evidence becomes overwhelming, I will look at the connection to Islam and go from there. I can't say more now as I don't live in the future, or in a fantasy of one.

 

[Kid Eager]

So like I said before if in a few years time or even after your death, science (NASA) and historical records catch up to the Quran (just as we have already seen), what excuse will you put forward?

I'm sure there'll be plenty of time for you to retcon the rest of the Quran to science as well. If that becomes tiresome, you could try using The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy, or some other well-lknown book for a similar purpose.

 

[TimCallahan]

Maybe you look into this for yourself, although if I were you I would start with sincere repentance, and then begin to ask God for guidance. For some people this is a journey which can take a very long time (years even).

Here is one man's story - How I Came to Islam

Here is that same man, Abdur Raheem Green, on whether or not good people go to hell. In this video he says, essentially that Christians and Jews are destined to hell. Yet, in Surah 2, Surah Al-Baqara ("the Cow") verse Q2:62 states:

The [Muslim] believers, the Jews, the Christians, and the Sabeans - all those who believe in God and the Last Day - will have their rewards with the Lord. No fear for them, nor will they grieve.

So, which is it? Do all the Peoples of the Book go to paradise, as Q 2:62 says, or do Christians and Jews go to hell, like Abdur Raheem Green says?

In the video on hell, Green says how worthless we are compared to God and how God demands that we worship him alone. I've always wondered why the God the Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in demands worship and is so upset that he punishes people forever for not worshiping him. Another oddity is that God, being perfect, supposedly knows what each of us will do. Of course, that would make us predestined. Yet this same God, who supposedly made us as we are, sends people to hell for acting the way he know we would.

 

[jnelso99]

The splitting of the Moon is one of the signals of the approaching End Times; when the Mi-Go containment system fails and the Great Old One Domaag T'eel is released from its prison in the hollow Moon.

The Truly Blessed will be those that are eaten FIRST.

 

[I Ratant]

Assuming that a soul was a man made creation. I suggest you start a new thread.

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The soul IS a man-made creation.
It has no survival value, which is the sole driver for any living thing.

 

[mikeb768]

Here is that same man, Abdur Raheem Green, on whether or not good people go to hell. In this video he says, essentially that Christians and Jews are destined to hell. Yet, in Surah 2, Surah Al-Baqara ("the Cow") verse Q2:62 states:

The [Muslim] believers, the Jews, the Christians, and the Sabeans - all those who believe in God and the Last Day - will have their rewards with the Lord. No fear for them, nor will they grieve.

So, which is it? Do all the Peoples of the Book go to paradise, as Q 2:62 says, or do Christians and Jews go to hell, like Abdur Raheem Green says?

In the video on hell, Green says how worthless we are compared to God and how God demands that we worship him alone. I've always wondered why the God the Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in demands worship and is so upset that he punishes people forever for not worshiping him. Another oddity is that God, being perfect, supposedly knows what each of us will do. Of course, that would make us predestined. Yet this same God, who supposedly made us as we are, sends people to hell for acting the way he know we would.

Yeah I've seen that lecture, which portion of the lecture did he mention what you claimed?

And yes, just like an ant is essentially worthless/nothing when compared to any human. It is similar when we humans try and compare our selves to a perfect, all knowing, all powerful being, such as the creator of the universe, despite how unpleasant and harsh that may sound.

Regarding Predestination, you do have free will, and God still knows your ultimate fate.

 

[TimCallahan]

Yeah I've seen that lecture, which portion of the lecture did he mention what you claimed?

It's pretty much through the entire lecture. He talks about people saying that God could become a person or the idea that God could have a son as insulting God. He also says that someone deliberately following the old way of doing things (either the Torah or the gospels) when there is a new plan (the Qur'an) is deliberately choosing evil, which must lead to hell. So, which is it, the way Abdur Raheem Green says it, or the way Q2:62 says it?

And yes, just like an ant is essentially worthless/nothing when compared to any human. It is similar when we humans try and compare our selves to a perfect, all knowing, all powerful being, such as the creator of the universe, despite how unpleasant and harsh that may sound.

So, Islam, then does not say that human beings were created in the image of God, the 'image" being understood to mean having self consciousness, conceptual intelligence, etc.?

Regarding Predestination, you do have free will, and God still knows your ultimate fate.

It sounds like the same things Christians say. We have free will, but God has foreknowledge of what choices we will make. Of course, if we are predestined to make certain choices, we would not have free will so much as the illusion of free will. Also, if God already knows how everything will turn out, why bother with creation in the first place? It would be like a chess player who not only knows what all the moves are in the game to be played and how it will win (with his victory, of course), but as well made the game and his opponent. What would be the point of playing such a game?

 

[TimCallahan]

So like I said before if in a few years time or even after your death, science (NASA) and historical records catch up to the Quran (just as we have already seen), what excuse will you put forward?

Where have we "already seen" science catching up to the Qur'an?

 

[mikeb768]

Where have we "already seen" science catching up to the Qur'an?

There are many threads, books, websites, about this, if you just look around.

 

[TimCallahan]

Originally Posted by TimCallahan
Where have we "already seen" science catching up to the Qur'an?

There are many threads, books, websites, about this, if you just look around.

When you say that we've "already seen it," that implies you've actually brought it up. No, I will not go on a wild goose chase looking for your evidence. If you have it, lay it out.

 

[Donn]

And yes, just like an ant is essentially worthless/nothing when compared to any human. It is similar when we humans try and compare our selves to a perfect, all knowing, all powerful being, such as the creator of the universe

If we are so worthless, why would our worship be of any value.
If you say he loves us, then we do have value.
Which is it?